General Discussion/Q&A on Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[cwphoto]

Where are you getting the data on 2000 deaths in Australia? Currently 11. Adverse effects? At what level of seriousness? I'd expect everyone would have had some kind of adverse effect but most wouldn't think it of any consequence to report it. Of course many are very serious but a tender arm is nothing compared with the heart and clotting issues some have had to deal with.

| Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA)

www.tga.gov.au

See for yourself: Safety information & education

Some fairly serious side-effects reported on that list.

Post automatically merged: Apr 16, 2022

This number is total BS, TGA have to report all vaccine related deaths there have been 11 and all were related to AZ (which whilst still available is not the recommended vaccine for any age group).

That's not right - see for yourself: Safety information & education

 

[Lynda2475]

My mistake, it's ~800:

Sorry that is incorrect, there were 819 deaths shortly after a vaccine but only 11 verfied as being due to the vaccine.

| Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA)

www.tga.gov.au

 

[cwphoto]

Anyone over 5 who chooses not to get vaccinated is choosing to risk being one fo the few who will get seriously ill if they get covid.

..and is also eliminating the risk of serious illness from the vaccine.

 

[cwphoto]

Sorry that is incorrect, there were 819 deaths shortly after a vaccine but only 11 verfied as being due to the vaccine.

| Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA)

www.tga.gov.au

View attachment 274838

You need to re-read my post carefully - I said associated.

Akin to the widely reported 'covid deaths' numbers - which are clearly mostly people who died of something else and happened to have had Covid around the time of death..

 

[Lynda2475]

You need to re-read my post carefully - I said associated.

Nope because review has ruled out that all but 11 were in fact unrelated to the vaccine. Correlation is not causation. Your are misuing the information to imply a false association.

 

[drron]

..and is also eliminating the risk of serious illness from the vaccine.

Sorry but those are just reports not confirmed side effects or deaths due to the vaccine. Read the same reports for most of the common drugs we take and you would not want to take them if it were true. But even a brief look at some of the reports will give you some idea of how unrelated they are.
Just an example. just about every antibiotic listed will have as side effects things such as a respiratory infection,UTI or septicaemia. But of course that was why the antibiotic was given. Every year many people die from bacterial infections so there are quite a few reports of death due to antibiotics when it really is the disease.
The other factor is that the total number of adverse reports around the world has sky rocketed since covid because of the fear instilled from both sides of the argument.

 

[cwphoto]

Nope because review has ruled out that all but 11 were in fact unrelated to the vaccine. Correlation is not causation. Your are misuing the information to imply a false association

Nope because review has ruled out that all but 11 were in fact unrelated to the vaccine. Correlation is not causation. Your are misuing the information to imply a false association.

You're incorrect.

Just because 11 were confirmed as death by vaccine doesn't infer that the other ~800 are confirmed as death by non-vaccine.

 

[cwphoto]

Sorry but those are just reports not confirmed side effects or deaths due to the vaccine. Read the same reports for most of the common drugs we take and you would not want to take them if it were true. But even a brief look at some of the reports will give you some idea of how unrelated they are.
Just an example. just about every antibiotic listed will have as side effects things such as a respiratory infection,UTI or septicaemia. But of course that was why the antibiotic was given. Every year many people die from bacterial infections so there are quite a few reports of death due to antibiotics when it really is the disease.

I don't disagree they are reports and not confirmations - but look at all the other vaccines on that list, they have much lower reported incidents yet the collection period is typically 10x longer or more.

Post automatically merged: Apr 16, 2022

The other factor is that the total number of adverse reports around the world has sky rocketed since covid because of the fear instilled from both sides of the argument.

That's conjecture, and impossible to prove.

 

[Lynda2475]

The other factor is that the total number of adverse reports around the world has sky rocketed since covid because of the fear instilled from both sides of the argument.

And because govenrments have solicted feedback by emailing every recipient multiple surveys post covid jab, whereas when you get a flu shot or travel vaccine at the GP, no one ever asks or follows up on any side effects.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Such is the case with absolutely every preventive action we have ever implemented. In the case of Covid we will never know if vaccinated people who develop severe covid may have been the souls who would have succumbed to it. And because every one of us is biologically unique there will be those who are not vaccinated who won't even catch Covid or if they do may not even know it. Pre-emptively none of us knows where that die will fall. People who are vaccinated will continue to die, because we all will die eventually and sometimes may die whilst positive. Doesn't mean the latter caused the former.

Well said. However I think the discussion on an ethical level is different when it comes to COVID vaccinations compared to many other preventative health measures. Primarily because of mandates and the stigma associated with the social requirement to be vaccinated. There is a general community expectation so the pressure is high on the individual, especially if you want to remain employed (and that still continues).

Also...I just want to make it abundantly clear. I am NOT an anti-vaxxer. I am an otherwise fit and healthy 30 year old male, tripled vaccinated. I guess this is more of a philosophical point I am raising than anything else.

 

[wandering_fred]

And because govenrments have solicted feedback by emailing every recipient multiple surveys post covid jab, whereas when you get a flu shot or travel vaccine at the GP, no one ever asks or follows up on any side effects.

Apparently not interested in the feedback from those who received AZ (x2).
Maybe they asked but I was wandering
Fred

PS when I get to the point of traveling I will get a booster (likely Novavax;s product)

 

[drron]

I would though make one point though on the confirmed deaths due to the vaccine. It is true they are all due to AZ but one of the reasons for that is that the first to be vaccinated were the elderly and those with co morbidities. The only vaccine available in Australia was AZ. These are the groups most likely to have severe effects.
If you look at Israel and the USA where basically most of the initial vaccinations in this group were mRNA vaccines there are several confirmed deaths from those vaccines.

 

[Lynda2475]

Apparently not interested in the feedback from those who received AZ (x2).
Maybe they asked but I was wandering

More likely due to the state you live in or where you chose to get the vaccine.

In NSW if you went to a state run vaccine clinic you got 3 folow up surveys per dose, and it did include AZ recipients.

 

[cwphoto]

More likely due to the state you live in or where you chose to get the vaccine.

In NSW if you went to a state run vaccine clinic you got 3 folow up surveys per dose, and it did include AZ recipients.

So it wasn't every recipient at all, just some.

And are we certain that relevant feedback made its way into the DAEN?

 

[Lynda2475]

So it wasn't every recipient at all, just some.

It was every NSW recipeint afaik and my staff working in Vic also got surveyed post vaccine from Vic Health. I never claimed everyone sent the survey completed it, Im sure many people didnt.

So my point stands that government health departments were proactively soliciting feedback which is not the case for other vaccines.

And are we certain that relevant feedback made its way into the DAEN database?

So you think official govenrment research was withheld? So not interested in your anti-vax views and conspiracy theories.

 

[cwphoto]

Was every NSW recipeint afaik and my staff working in Vic also got surveyed post vaccine. I never claimed everyone sent the survey completed it, Im sure many people didnt.

So my point stands that government health departments were proactively soliciting feedback which is not the case for other vaccines.

You said this:

"govenrments have solicted feedback by emailing every recipient multiple surveys".

Which is false. Not every vaccine recipient got emailed surveys.

 

[cwphoto]

So you think official govenrment research was withheld? So not interested in your anti-vax views and conspiracy theories.

Just because you answer a survey from the government doesn't mean it qualifies as a mechanism of input into the DAEN. It may or may not be so - and irrespective of such it doesn't necessarily mean it's withholding information either.

You're reaching.

The surveys weren't sent to everyone and I question if the results of such surveys were inputs to the DAEN.

 

[cwphoto]

So not interested in your anti-vax views and conspiracy theories.

As often the case with people who have a closed mind: avoid the debate, become emotional, and label everything they disagree with a conspiracy theory.

 

[Pushka]

See for yourself: Safety information & education

Some fairly serious side-effects reported on that list.

Post automatically merged: Apr 16, 2022

That's not right - see for yourself: Safety information & education

That's the same reference I used and 11 deaths only directly linked with the vaccine. To use the word 'associated' after investigations have been completed is erroneous. Even terminally ill people were vaccinated. Possibly to die within a couple of days.

 

[cwphoto]

That's the same reference I used and 11 deaths only directly linked with the vaccine. To use the word 'associated' after investigations have been completed is erroneous. Even terminally ill people were vaccinated.

No it's not erroneous, it's valid.

Here is a statement from the TGA:
"The TGA does not undertake autopsies, request coronial investigations or make formal determinations of the cause of death."

So basically the TGA weighed up the evidence they had (which didn't include the above) and made a classification. I'm not suggesting they're biased, but their determination and the methods they use to come to a conclusion should be held in context.

It doesn't prove anything one way or another - so the association comment is still valid.