General Discussion/Q&A on Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[drron]

I would be very surprised if opening our borders did wait until a vaccine was developed.That is because it may never be developed.If it is 18 months then most tourist businesses will have died if the borders are closed that long
The response to the virus will be more devastating than the virus.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Its been widely reported today that China is allowing 'wet markets' to re-open. I think the same 'wet markets' of the type in Wuhan that's been credited with originating the COVID19 pandemic and also SARS in 2003.

OK, the Chinese will do what they want.

But what is staggering is that the 'World Health Organisation' has actually supported this move by China. Not ignored or even tut-tutted, but supported it.



Its like supporting the slaughter of rhinos and elephants by poachers in Africa because it supports the poachers' economy. Oh, but regulate the poaching.

I don't have much confidence in the WHO based on this.

Edit: Just watched SBS's report on this - their footage showed a very dead animal being carved up, not the live animals that I think were the problem. Also disappointing.

But is this the actual response from WHO? Doesn’t seem so.

WHO urges China to close ‘dangerous’ wet market as stalls in Wuhan begin to reopen

'75 per cent of emerging infections come from the animal kingdom... It’s partly the markets, but it’s also other places where humans and animals are in close contact,' says Dr David Nabarro

www.independent.co.uk

Post automatically merged: Apr 14, 2020

Maybe even no cruise ships until there is a vaccine.

One can only hope!

 

[nutwood]

We really need to sort out our domestic situation sooner rather than later. I'm in Tasmania. If I leave the State, I'll be locked up for fourteen days, regardless of where I've been. Mind you, CVD is going gangbusters in our NW and the isolation requirements touted as "Australia's strictest" do not seem to include mandatory detention.
There are serious inconsistencies between the States which seem to be based more on social media opinion than any factual medical logic.

 

[Pushka]

The response to the virus will be more devastating than the virus.

I'm thinking that many may be rapidly coming to that conclusion anyway.

 

[drron]

We really need to sort out our domestic situation sooner rather than later. I'm in Tasmania. If I leave the State, I'll be locked up for fourteen days, regardless of where I've been. Mind you, CVD is going gangbusters in our NW and the isolation requirements touted as "Australia's strictest" do not seem to include mandatory detention.
There are serious inconsistencies between the States which seem to be based more on social media opinion than any factual medical logic.

No unless you are considered an Essential worker as a Tasmanian you will be put on a bus and taken to a hotel for mandatory detention.Happened to the non essential travellers on the QF flight into LST on Monday.

 

[JohnM]

I'm thinking that many may be rapidly coming to that conclusion anyway.

It was the inevitable conclusion if covid-19 did not become a serious epidemic in Australia.

But we'll never know what it would have become as the isolation measures are not a comparative experiment.

Damned if you, damned if you don't...

 

[RooFlyer]

. Mind you, CVD is going gangbusters in our NW and the isolation requirements touted as "Australia's strictest" do not seem to include mandatory detention.

Yes they do.

If I leave the State, I'll be locked up for fourteen days, regardless of where I've been.

that's the mandatory detention you are doubting.

There are serious inconsistencies between the States which seem to be based more on social media opinion than any factual medical logic.

They're are innumerable inconsistencies between the states on every issue from sport to courts to system of Parliament to what to call 'salami'. Blame the nature of our Federation more than social media, including for the current mish mash of rules.

 

[PineappleSkip]

No unless you are considered an Essential worker as a Tasmanian you will be put on a bus and taken to a hotel for mandatory detention.Happened to the non essential travellers on the QF flight into LST on Monday.

Hope the get points for their stay!

 

[nutwood]

Yes they do.



that's the mandatory detention you are doubting.



They're are innumerable inconsistencies between the states on every issue from sport to courts to system of Parliament to what to call 'salami'. Blame the nature of our Federation more than social media, including for the current mish mash of rules.

ABC news report re North West Regional Hospital and North West Private Hospital in Burnie : "All staff and members of their households — more than 1,000 people — will go into quarantine for two weeks. "
I'm not reading there that these people are being bused off to be locked up in a hotel room for two weeks?

 

[Pushka]

And Trump has withdrawn finance from WHO. According to a media release. Good move.

 

[RooFlyer]

But is this the actual response from WHO? Doesn’t seem so.

Agreed, that's not the statement being quoted - that one, excusing the reopening of Chinese wet markets, came from WHO's 'Western Pacific' Region. Can't find it now - probably been taken down, but plenty of direct quotes on AAP etc.

 

[PineappleSkip]

And Trump has withdrawn finance from WHO. According to a media release. Good move.

That would be an absolutely excellent move if you want to (a) kill as many people as possible in the third world and (b) ensure those countries continue to be a source of reinfection elsewhere for quite a while.

Not agreeing with everything they’ve said, although this discussion is commentary around marginal comments to the main game, which is advice and support. WHO have tried (in fact begged) to avoid politicking as they’re dependent on both US and China - and others - for funding. If the US did this it would also add a couple of aces to China’s hand, and you won’t see them objecting..

BTW I don’t see an actual withdrawal of funding although there was huffing and puffing a week ago and it wouldn’t surprise me. They have already wound back what would be USAID support.

 

[Pushka]

That would be an absolutely excellent move if you want to (a) kill as many people as possible in the third world and (b) ensure those countries continue to be a source of reinfection elsewhere for quite a while.

Not agreeing with everything they’ve said, although this discussion is commentary around marginal comments to the main game, which is advice and support. WHO have tried (in fact begged) to avoid politicking as they’re dependent on both US and China - and others - for funding. If the US did this it would also add a couple of aces to China’s hand, and you won’t see them objecting..

BTW I don’t see an actual withdrawal of funding although there was huffing and puffing a week ago and it wouldn’t surprise me. They have already wound back what would be USAID support.

I suspect it is a move to shake up the current WHO management of this pandemic, whose management has eventuated in the deaths of tens of thousands of people whose time was not up yet. Their failure to call the pandemic earlier was a major failure for the world. The fact that they need funding from China who were complicit in this cover up from the get go says it all.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

And Trump has withdrawn finance from WHO. According to a media release. Good move.

Third World population would disagree.

 

[RooFlyer]

Their failure to call the pandemic earlier was a major failure for the world.

And their criticism when travel bans from China were first announced. I'm sure their work on-the-ground is simply invaluable, but like many UN organisations, its top echelons are highly political and at best useless and at worst if not dangerous, then 'unhelpful'.

 

[Pushka]

Third World population would disagree.

You never know, they may get more funds directed towards their support than under the current bureacracy that clearly has someone directing their moves.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I suspect it is a move to shake up the current WHO management of this pandemic, whose management has eventuated in the deaths of tens of thousands of people whose time was not up yet. Their failure to call the pandemic earlier was a major failure for the world.

It was clear from the WHO declaration on 30 Jan that all countries needed to act. The wise ones did including Australia. One whose leader was in election mode chose to differ and delay and now seeks scapegoats for his constituency to aim their wrath at. The deaths of tens of thousands that you refer to should be sheets home to the leaders of countries who chose not to act, or who acted too slowly. Trump and Boris amongst them.


No government has acted perfectly with respect to CV 19. Ruby Princess anyone? Italy appalling early on. USA as well.

I am not going to state that the WHO were perfect as they were not, but the Third World needs all the good that they actually do at the grassroots level in many poor countries.

CV19 running rampant in the ThirdWorld will also not be good for the West either.

The fact that they need funding from China who were complicit in this cover up from the get go says it all.

They need funding from all donors. Donors include Australia and The Gates Foundation.

 

[Pushka]

It was clear from the WHO declaration on 30 Jan that all countries needed to act. The wise ones did including Australia. One whose leader was in election mode chose to differ and delay and now seeks scapegoats for his constituency to aim their wrath at. The deaths of tens of thousands that you refer to should be sheets home to the leaders of countries who chose not to act, or who acted too slowly. Trump and Boris amongst them.

IHR Emergency Committee on Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)

www.who.int

No government has acted perfectly with respect to CV 19. Ruby Princess anyone? Italy appalling early on. USA as well.

I am not going to state that the WHO were perfect as they were not, but the Third Word needs all the good that they actually do at the grassroots level in many poor countries.



They need funding from all donors. Donors include Australia and The Gates Foundation.

Yes, they do and it was specifically mentioned upthread that USA and China were their main donors.

Agree re the timing of the announcement and the person who made it; however I am sure that even though he is reflecting this for his own gains, then other lead countries are thinking exactly how WHO is making their decisions.

Their condemnation of border sanctions and support of Wet markets re-opening yesterday, only stating that wild animals should not be traded yet not stopping other live animals being sold, simply because those traders are dependent on that, is a total smack in the face for the rest of the world who has lost tens of thousands of people, will lead to a recession/depression; greatly increased the chances of severe long term mental health issues, and led many countries to a debt level leaving a nasty legacy for generations. If that doesnt confirm who controls WHO, well, I give up.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Yes, they do and it was specifically mentioned upthread that USA and China were their main donors.

And being two of world's largest economies you would expect both to be. Again I am not saying that the WHO is or was perfect nor did everything well. But the deaths are in the main due to countries choosing not to act.

In the middle of a pandemic now is not the time to limit their funding, and Covid 19 is just one of the health issues that they are involved with. If you are concerned about limiting the death toll you would not be seeking to wind back all the WHO Health Programs.

Covid 19 was not a secret. The WHO had distributed information on it and had issued an emergency warning. South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand and other countries all decided to act promptly. Other countries such as the the UK, USA, Italy, Spain etc all chose to not act promptly.




Information was available to the White House on what a threat Covid 19 was both from the WHO and from those within the Whitehouse. The Whitehouse chose to ignore it apart from some but not all flights being banned from China. 45 countries had travel restrictions on China before the USA. While Trump claims now he closed the border with China at time he did not. February the Whitehouse just sat it out and let Covid 19 spread. Reserach has now shown that most cases there came via Europe.

Navarro on 29 January and 23 February. The first memo, composed on the day Trump set up a White House coronavirus task force, gave a worst-case scenario of the virus killing more than half a million Americans.

According to the Times, it said: “The lack of immune protection or an existing cure or vaccine would leave Americans defenseless in the case of a full-blown coronavirus outbreak on US soil. This lack of protection elevates the risk of the coronavirus evolving into a full-blown pandemic, imperiling the lives of millions of Americans.”

The second memo went even further, predicting that a Covid-19 pandemic, left unchecked, could kill 1.2 million Americans and infect as many as 100 million.

This was not the first time Trump and his White House team were warned that the virus had the potential to devastate the US and needed to be dealt with quickly and firmly.

Senior scientists, epidemiologists and health emergency experts in the US and around the world delivered that clear message early on in the crisis, only for Trump to continue belittling the scale of the threat which he compared falsely to the dangers of seasonal flu.

Trump was warned in January of Covid-19's devastating impact, memos reveal

Trump claimed no one could have predicted disease’s severity but economic adviser Peter Navarro gave worst-case scenario of 500,000 deaths

www.theguardian.com

 

[Pushka]

And being two of world's largest economies you would expect both to be.

Well along with that comes influence then, doesn't it.