General Estate Planning issues (Wills, PoA, AHDs)

[QF WP]

[Mod Hat On]Okay @JohnK and @Pushka, you've both had your say and there is no new ground being covered here.[/Mod Hat off]

Time to move on to more general comments or questions from others (not about JohnK's situation).

 

[Milboo]

That was not an open statement for people who have no desire to assist to put the boot into my character which is what is happening right now.

For the record my only concern right now is how my wife gets back home if something happens to me. That's not as simple as you think. She relies on me for everything.

A will is going to have to wait until I'm ready and I don't want to face that right now.

Simply put, unless she has immediate access to her own funds, or a joint account, then she will be left in a difficult position and without access to the means to get home, and without the mechanisms in place to allow her to get straightforward access to your estate.

The funny thing about delaying your will, especially when you have a complex estate and small children, is that you tend to need it before you ever get around to it.

A friend’s father did not have a will. Died unexpectedly. Over 5 years later they are still unravelling his affairs and finding stashes of shares and other assets.

 

[tgh]

A small diversionary post… ….. but there are wills and wills.
Older folks with moderate assets should revisit older wills designed to manage a lesser estate.
Our new wills are comprehensive documents that address many issues that were never envisaged as youngsters

..just sayin'…

 

[Pushka]

A small diversionary post… ….. but there are wills and wills.
Older folks with moderate assets should revisit older wills designed to manage a lesser estate.
Our new wills are comprehensive documents that address many issues that were never envisaged as youngsters

..just sayin'…

Indeed. We need to revisit ours. And will do so before our trip to Egypt at the end of the year. Will also do all the PofAs and health care declarations.

 

[love_the_life]

Indeed. We need to revisit ours. And will do so before our trip to Egypt at the end of the year. Will also do all the PofAs and health care declarations.

Yes, we have moved our wills over to our current solicitor and need to redo them this year. When we wrote them last time, trusts were the 'in' thing. We want to simplify the whole lot now.

 

[Pushka]

Yes, we have moved our wills over to our current solicitor and need to redo them this year. When we wrote them last time, trusts were the 'in' thing. We want to simplify the whole lot now.

I’m watching the latest fad declutter thing on Netflix. Simplicity is perfect. Started with the SMSF.

 

[Milboo]

As I said earlier - considerable time is spent training lawyers on this area of law! There is a whole division of the Supreme Court dedicated to estates. Some lawyers spend their entire practice time in this area.

And people still think they can DIY them!

The classic mistake people make is having a beneficiary also witness them.

If nothing else, it keeps some lawyers employed untangling the mess!

But the other step is having the right mechanisms in place -like joint accounts, passwords and accounts known, all information re assets kept together, binding nominations for beneficiaries in place, POA and advanced directives, asking the people you want to be guardians of children (may not be binding),figuring out what can be expressed as a wish in a will (down to who gets the Dog!), sharing your wishes re funeral with family, gifting items like heirlooms now (and ensuring you record such gifts as an annexure to your will) etc etc etc!

 

[tgh]

Uh.. oh gimmee a break Milboo… in between test driving Ferrari's and booking f holidays.. they can sort out a bit of stuff between themselves..
My amusement (while leaning on my silver shovel), will be the look on their faces when they find out how little I left behind...

 

[Pushka]

Uh.. oh gimmee a break Milboo… in between test driving Ferrari's and booking f holidays.. they can sort out a bit of stuff between themselves..
My amusement (while leaning on my silver shovel), will be the look on their faces when they find out how little I left behind...

Oh, you’ve been skiing then. That’s a very simple solution.

 

[Solid]

I must confess a large part of what I do day to day is working with clients on their estate planning.

Many people avoid addressing it which is predominantly a psychological barrier, no one really likes to think about their own death.

It is however enjoyable and satisfying work believe it or not. Once everything is finalised you often see clients visibly relax knowing that everything has been taken care of.

Of course it can also be sad when clients pass away after you have worked with them or when dealing with terminally clients.

As for addressing it now, as I often say to clients you have to think about what should happen with your estate as if you are going to be hit by a bus as you walk out of the office - and that actually happened to a client (although they were not killed thank goodness and it was a truck not a bus).

And mods this is not an advertisement but feel free to delete if you think it is - you can’t afford me anyway

Edited for lack of smiley face - don’t know where it went

 

[lakeman]

Great idea to hive off this thread.
I had seen the previous thread and had gone looking for it again tonight.
I am sure there is a lot of experience in the membership of this forum and I look forward to many points of view.

Both my parents have died in the last 4 years and my father had things set up well as he knew death was imminent (cancer) ,with most assets including house and shares in joint names and a binding death nomination for his super.

I had a POA and guardianship for my mother who had Dementia and it was just a matter of doing paperwork and sending certified copies of the death certificate.
No probate needed.

My mother had an old will done 30 years ago with 3 testamentary trusts and not as many options as newer wills so I will have to transfer assets to the trusts despite the 3 beneficiaries not needing the structure.

We had a few days notice of her death so managed to withdraw her super ,avoiding 15% tax to her beneficiaries.
I also managed to sell some shares to use up her tax free threshold on CGT.
I did the Probate myself and have all the assets under my control as executor.

When I had my parents POA and guardianship witnessed by a solicitor I took that opportunity to do wills and POA and it was not that expensive.

My circumstances are a little more complicated now with SMSF, family trusts and the residual testamentary trust as well as personal investments but I include my spouse in investment and compliance decisions and she is able to manage investments on her own so if I die before her she has some clues.

If we both die it will be a bit messy but I like the idea of the cheat sheet of accounts and I have records in Reckon accounts which should help my kids sort out capital gains etc

Sorry for the long post but I do think these are important matters.
I also noted the informative post above this one, posted while I was typing

 

[JohnM]

It'll all be spent by the time I'm gone, is all I can say... - but I have always (well, since I was about 21) had a will (periodically updated). Any trustee thinking they will make a bit of coin as a percentage on the minor paperwork of my estate will find themselves very sadly disappointed .

But, (only slightly more) seriously, anyone without a will - especially if they have a family - I simply cannot comprehend.

It's not about putting the boot into you, @JohnK - but let's just say that in this, and many other things, you do appear to be somewhat off the grid .

 

[cove]

I couldn't think of anything worse than to die without a will.
Robert Holmes a Court did just that in 1990 and it created a mess and he had been a lawyer.

 

[Pushka]

I couldn't think of anything worse than to die without a will.
Robert Holmes a Court did just that in 1990 and it created a mess and he had been a lawyer.

Well, they do say that plumbers have the leakiest pipework etc. Work fatigue I guess.

If there is anything positive (and I hate to even use that word about cancer) it does give you time to do some planning to avoid some of the issues but the structures to do this have to be set up a time before for quick action as there is generally only a five day window to act on fulfilling those plans. Other causes of death, even stroke, may offer no opportunity to do last minute planning let alone acting on it. My brother and I had PofA set up years ago for our parents as they were proactive and had also purchased their funerals etc etc. So when Mum had her final stroke and her DNR acted on (I was the one who had to do that as brother was away) and she was incapable, then we could take over everything. We had 10 days like that but it wasn’t until two days before that I thought to call a lawyer about them handling her estate. That was when the lawyer suggested a much easier solution.

 

[VPS]

The Barefoot investor suggests everyone should buy a fireproof box and then make sure you put in there the important things - his fearless folder list

 

[Pushka]

The Barefoot investor suggests everyone should buy a fireproof box and then make sure you put in there the important things - his fearless folder list View attachment 150369

Yep. Our stuff is in a fireproof box. Along with some valuables like personal letters and two signed books that are valuable, stamp collection, copies of wills, medals, and all the financial info needed to carry on. Everyone in the family knows where it is.

 

[QF WP]

Indeed. We need to revisit ours. And will do so before our trip to Egypt at the end of the year. Will also do all the PofAs and health care declarations.

I’m sure you and MrP will consider taking certified copies with you on your trip, in case they are needed

Yes, we have moved our wills over to our current solicitor and need to redo them this year. When we wrote them last time, trusts were the 'in' thing. We want to simplify the whole lot now.

Testamentary Trusts are excellent vehicles for safeguarding assets from others and for various reasons. The reasons may still be current. My parents have 6 TT’s set up in their Wills - considered and discussed at length between them, us and Solicitor (two sons both CFP’s). Reasonably sized Estate with many entities included (family trust, company, shares, etc) and beneficiaries, including some minors (my kids).

 

[tgh]

Everyone in the family knows where it is…

everyone ??? .. loose lips sink ships….
Most of our planning is predicated upon one surviving and the survivor managing the mess with #1son.
I do take on board the idea of detailing ( but with a big security caveat) and this thread prompts me to revisit.
If we both evaporate today, there will be a lot of relatively unimportant stuff to be found, but what seems important to us will probably be grist for the rubbish skip for others...

 

[get me outta here]

Talking of DIY, I have a friend who is well paid professional who doesn't like to pay others for professional advice of any sort. He got a will form from the PO and told me that his youngest of 3 children could stay in the 7 years before it gets sold.

I commented that there would be tax issues, and that the children would pretty much end up hating each other.

As I said earlier - considerable time is spent training lawyers on this area of law! There is a whole division of the Supreme Court dedicated to estates. Some lawyers spend their entire practice time in this area.

And people still think they can DIY them!

The classic mistake people make is having a beneficiary also witness them.

If nothing else, it keeps some lawyers employed untangling the mess!

But the other step is having the right mechanisms in place -like joint accounts, passwords and accounts known, all information re assets kept together, binding nominations for beneficiaries in place, POA and advanced directives, asking the people you want to be guardians of children (may not be binding),figuring out what can be expressed as a wish in a will (down to who gets the Dog!), sharing your wishes re funeral with family, gifting items like heirlooms now (and ensuring you record such gifts as an annexure to your will) etc etc etc!

 

[Pushka]

Everyone in the family knows where it is…

everyone ??? .. loose lips sink ships….
Most of our planning is predicated upon one surviving and the survivor managing the mess with #1son.
I do take on board the idea of detailing ( but with a big security caveat) and this thread prompts me to revisit.
If we both evaporate today, there will be a lot of relatively unimportant stuff to be found, but what seems important to us will probably be grist for the rubbish skip for others...

Well, husband and two sons know. That’s all.

We have our own business so there’s accounting and taxation and gst and all that kind of cough information.

So here’s a thought. How far ‘down’ the family do you go? Son and DIL are thinking children. So?...

Speaking of warring family when it comes to children; we have stated in our will that both children must agree with the process of liquidating assets and should there be any disagreement then the lawyer gets the final word. Likely both will end up unhappy which I think is better than one happy and the other one not