Gold Coast mid-air heli crash.

[prozac]

Please be careful the unqualified comments made regards this accident. Families of victims live with this memory for the rest of their lives. They live it in every media mention of an air accident, every time someone mentions a father/mother/daughter/son/brother/sister/aunt/uncle etc they no longer have. They do this every time the situation mentions it for the rest of their lives, it never goes away.

 

[Captain Halliday]

The bit that intrigues me is why they (Sea World) had their approach and departure paths set up so that they crossed at the same height. I wonder how constrained they were by local noise issues.

I don’t know the answer to your question, but Sea World actually operates from three heli pads.

The northern pad is for theme parks guests. The central is the hangar. The southern is for non theme park guests.



Their procedures would also have to factor in a rival operator just a little further up the Broadwater (blue).

 

[Quickstatus]

What are the blind spots on those helicopters and helicopters in general?

And how effective/ realistic is VFR look and avoid?

 

[jb747]

What are the blind spots on those helicopters and helicopters in general?

Anywhere the view is blocked by structure. Interestingly the view may be blocked from only one eye, and yet there can still be a blind spot.

Pilot’s Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge.
17-21 offers a very interesting experiment.

And how effective/ realistic is VFR look and avoid?

It's effective until it isn't. There's no real alternative in most cases though. How often are cars not seen by other drivers?

 

[Quickstatus]

17-21

Yes the central blind spot - every eye itself has a blind spot where the retina does not exist.

There's no real alternative

Humans cannot reliably position themselves in 3D space relative to another. We need technology for that. It already exist - but not all aircraft have a TCAS installed - especially general aviation.

 

[jb747]

Humans cannot reliably position themselves in 3D space relative to another. We need technology for that. It already exist - but not all aircraft have a TCAS installed - especially general aviation.

You are massively overestimating the ability of TCAS.

 

[Quickstatus]

TCAS.

What are the weaknesses of TCAS?

 

[JohnM]

Comments from Juan Browne posted a short while ago:

I had been puzzled by the pilot in the left seat, as the only helos I've been in have had the pilot on the right. Obviously Eurocopters are different.

 

[Quickstatus]

the only helos I've been in have had the pilot on the right.

Learn something new everyday. . Didn't know that.
What about the American built ones?

 

[prozac]

Learn something new everyday. . Didn't know that.
What about the American built ones?

Right.

 

[JohnM]

Learn something new everyday. . Didn't know that.
What about the American built ones?

I'm no authority on helicopters, having only flown in them on tourist jaunts, Mostly JetRanger/LongRanger family and Robinsons. But about 20 years ago I did fly over Mont Blanc (4,800m ASL) in what appeared to be some sort of French military-style helo (I presumed more powerful in order to tackle that sort of altitude) and it had the pilot on the right.

Juan specifically mentions the change to the left in the Eurocopter.

Edit: Are Helicopters Flown From the Left or Right Seat? It Depends! | Pilot Teacher

 

[drron]

I've only done tourist flights but most of mine I remember the pilot on the left. Sometimes on the right.

 

[TheRealTMA]

I'm no authority on helicopters, having only flown in them on tourist jaunts, Mostly JetRanger/LongRanger family and Robinsons. But about 20 years ago I did fly over Mont Blanc (4,800m ASL) in what appeared to be some sort of French military-style helo (I presumed more powerful in order to tackle that sort of altitude) and it had the pilot on the right.

Juan specifically mentions the change to the left in the Eurocopter.

Edit: Are Helicopters Flown From the Left or Right Seat? It Depends! | Pilot Teacher

Yes. Traditionally pilot in the right hand seat, but these days pilots learn to fly from left and right hand seats.

 

[Captain Halliday]

Comments from Juan Browne posted a short while ago:

I had been puzzled by the pilot in the left seat, as the only helos I've been in have had the pilot on the right. Obviously Eurocopters are different.

Always interesting to see his take.

Shame he used a photo from the SeaWorld website of an AS350 to illustrate blind spots, rather than finding a picture of an EC-130 which was the type involved.

 

[Duffa]

ATSB release finding. Trace cocaine in dead pilot's body. It just goes from bad to worse.

 

[Saab34]

They did state…

The ATSB said it wasn't known whether side effects of the drug which "can include fatigue, depression and inattention" had any effect on Mr Jenkinson's performance.

"It is unlikely there would have been impairment of the pilot's psychomotor skills."

It would appear unlikely the drugs had any impact on the overall result, however, you need to ask the question, how many other instances did the drugs potentially have an impact on his flying skills in potential prior instances.

One for the resident Pilots, would such drugs get picked up in medical renewals? From what I gather, most drugs like this one will likely get picked up in a urine sample <2 weeks within use. I don’t think they do hair testing on flight crew, as those tests would still show a positive reading years after use.

 

[Duffa]

Imagine if JB747 went down in an A380!?
With the same substance.
All hell would break loose.

 

[p--and--t]

Imagine if JB747 went down in an A380!?
With the same substance.
All hell would break loose.

Or merely had a QF flight number…

 

[Quickstatus]

you need to ask the question, how many other instances did the drugs potentially have an impact on his flying skills in potential prior instances.

Well it appears that until this accident there was no concerns re pilot performance. So while a look back may reveal further insights, in the absence of such look back insights, I think the ATSB is reasonable to conclude as it did. A lot of professionals are highly functional despite drugs in their system. I'm not saying it is therefore OK, only that but for drug testing we often do not know of someone's drug taking, based on purely on performance criteria.

There are also more significant identified reasons for the crash than just trace cocaine

 

[samh004]

The ATSB said it wasn't known whether side effects of the drug which "can include fatigue, depression and inattention" had any effect on Mr Jenkinson's performance.

"It is unlikely there would have been impairment of the pilot's psychomotor skills."

Think it was silly of them releasing this information before the full report. All they’ve done is stirred up anger that a residual trace caused this instead of conclusive proof and probably opened the operator up to lawsuits premature to the findings being released.

When I heard, my first thought was that they released it as a possible smokescreen for if the findings are inconclusive or just come down to an accident officially and then everyone can blame the pilot because that’s all they have.

I’d be much happier to read the full report and have a more reasonable explanation of what went wrong than speculation he did drugs up to 4 days before the fatal flight, and that somehow means every good thing he did no longer matters.