Guaranteed Family Point Redemption - word of caution

[woodborer]

Well done VA. You bring in benefits which sound like they actually offer something, but then shaft us with the fine print (which I still haven't been able to find in the T&Cs).

The 3 day either side is in the T&Cs (17.3.3 b) Terms & Conditions | Velocity Frequent Flyer

(b) allow for a three day booking window for each flight (one day either side of the desired departure and return dates).

 

[bullerdude]

It was not just me who was confused as well. I mentioned earlier that I spoke to 7 different people in a phone call that lasted 2 hours 10 minutes and the end result was that the redemption was made, I received the tix numbers, PNR and an email stating I had a CONFIRMED booking. It lasted all of 1/2 an hour before I received a call from VA stating my booking would be cancelled as I did not meet the T&Cs......coincidentally about the same time VFF posted that info here on AFF.

Poor form in anyones book I'd say.

SERIOUSLY WOW

That is not only poor form that also borderline illegal.

 

[anat0l]

SERIOUSLY WOW

That is not only poor form that also borderline illegal.

I was thinking kind of the same thing (it's the accepting the booking and issuing the tickets, then promptly cancelling that's wrong, right?); the main problem I'm having is under what legal provision could you possibly pin them for?

Getting VFF or a Velocity executive may be the way forward from here.

 

[bullerdude]

I was thinking kind of the same thing (it's the accepting the booking and issuing the tickets, then promptly cancelling that's wrong, right?); the main problem I'm having is under what legal provision could you possibly pin them for?

Getting VFF or a Velocity executive may be the way forward from here.

It may fall under this section of consumer law as VA has accepted payment for something they never intended to supply (and I would argue that a points payment is no different in this case.

[h=2]Accepting payment without intending to supply[/h]You must not accept payment for goods or services if:

• you do not intend to supply
• you intend to supply materially different goods or services from those requested
• you know, or should have known, you would not be able to supply the goods or services in a timely manner.

This part of the law is not intended to affect businesses who genuinely try to meet supply agreements, for example, if:

• the failure to supply was due to something beyond your control
• you exercised due diligence and took reasonable precautions.

Unfair business practices | ACCC

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Incidentally, which call centre staff helped you "use" this benefit - the Australian or the Asian call centre?

The course of events were:
0705 - Telephone Velocity to attempt to make some reward bookings. AUH-MLE made without problem (50700 + $72 total for 3 pax).
- MLE-SIN told no reward seats available. I asked if I could use my guarantee reward as a platinum status member. Told yes but subject to conditions being a) outside 6 months of travel date, b) no availability 3 days either side of preferred date and c) max of 4 pax and d) if used one way would use my return allowance. There was no mention of having to be ex-AU and the only issue I assumed would be condition b). Asked the lady to check availability which turned up none so right to go according to her. When she went to make the booking she said the points had remained the same (60000 for 3 pax) but the fees had gone up a lot (from under $100 to over $2300 for 3 pax). I declined to proceed.
0759 - Created thread on AFF
0923 - anat0l advised to try again or a supervisor
1004 - Phoned the VFF plat CSS and explained to the lady that I thought the additional fees were excessive and made a mock of this being a "benefit". She agreed and put me through to a supervisor who also agreed and spoke directly to an int. bookings team member (Mark) who quoted the same point amount (60000 for 3 pax) but this time the fees were $62.40 for 3 pax. I agreed to purchase and went through the whole process only to reach the payment of the fees and the booking stopped. Mark placed me on hold whilst he checked for the reason why and after a period return to say I was in my status review period so my guarantee booking from last year had expired and because I was still in review (despite the fact I requaled Plat in May last year and my SC balance still being about double the plat requal amount), my next guarantee benefit won't show in my account until the review period finishes :evil:. I asked to be transferred back to the Plat CSS which he did and I then explained the situation to the lady who said although she understood, she could not change the fact but did agree to put me through to her supervisor who upon hearing my tale of woe, agreed to give me my guarantee benefit. So back I was transferred to the int booking team and after an extended wait on hold, I got to speak to Ken. Ken went through the whole process yet again but this time it went through without a hitch including the payment of what I believed was the figure Ken confirmed to me as being AU$62.40. I was given a PNR and sent an email @ ......
1214 ......which showed the status as CONFIRMED ECONOMY and the three electronic tickets.
1230 - I logged into My Bookings and the reward flight was there but strangely the co-payment amount showed $45.xx and showed my CC payment as well as a different credit card than mine. I assumed this was a VA CC they used to pay SG and although briefly wondered why it was less than the amount I was quoted, it was a minimal amount and in my favour anyway so I didn't worry about it.
1245 - Went back on AFF and read the posts only to read VFF say I was outside the T&Cs which was the first I heard of it.
1333 - Received a call from Ken to explain SQ had pointed out to them my booking was outside the T&Cs as the flight has to originate from AU and the booking has been cancelled. I wondered if VFF had given them the heads up on that issue, but decided no, VFF has many times let things slide so that was unlikely.
1340 - Logged back into "My Bookings" to see points returned and booking cancelled
1355 - Opened one of my E-Tickets and surprise, surprise ......... It shows the "Total Fare and Other Charges" to be........AU$2539.80. One can understand why VA suddenly cancelled the booking.

TBH, I don't understand any part of the murky underworld of reward point trading and I do understand T&Cs are there for a reason, but so to are consumer protection laws. Companies do often hide little "gotchas" in the T&Cs and that's why laws are in place to provide transparency. This is not the first time the T&Cs of this benefit has been discussed on AFF, but it is the first time IIRC, that this little gotcha has been raised and only then by VFF. Count back how many people form VA/VFF I spoke to (7 I think) and not one of them knew of it. I have been disadvantaged by VFF hiding this gotcha in the T&Cs as otherwise I would have rung up to grab a reward seat the day they first opened rather than waiting until I arrived back from OS.

VFF, in their wisdom, has highlighted just one condition on their "Platinum Benefits" and "Benefits at a Glance" web pages and do not state there are further conditions in the T&Cs although they do give links on each of those pages to the T&Cs. I wonder why VFF have decided the 6 months in advance is worthy of highlighting, but the other conditions are not? It's not to save page space, as each "benefit" has a dropdown function that hides the body of text unless one's interested. Having all the conditions openly displayed would be easy to do. Further, why is the ASA (which I'm assuming is that default cost base) so expensive? I always assumed it was based on what VA could buy the seat for. Well that's clearly not the case as I can buy those exact seats for US$1200.

Just another nail in the VA coffin for me. As I've been coming to realise, status is a shiny card and little else.

 

[777]

• Platinum members are guaranteed four return economy Reward Seats to any domestic or international destination when flying with Virgin Australia or our international airline redemption partners.

So where does it clearly state that it must be from Australia?

I would read the *to any domestic or international destination* as implying that your point of origin is from Australia (or NZ given that is where you must live to be a VFF member) but maybe that's just me. IF it said *between any domestic and international destination* i would read it differently.

Agree the cancelling of the award ticket is very poor form though. Totally unacceptable.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I would read the *to any domestic or international destination* as implying that your point of origin is from Australia

I'm not so much annoyed at the condition itself (that's up to VA/VFF) I'm annoyed that it was not made clear and the fact no one I spoke to within VA/VFF knew of that condition either which resulted in me spending a whole morning on the telephone as if I have nothing better to do with my time.

 

[Matthew Herbert]

Agree the cancelling of the award ticket is very poor form though. Totally unacceptable.

YES! This is the poorest form I've seen - especially considering there is significant precedent from VA with honouring reward tickets booked 'incorrectly'.
I was one of many, many people from Hobart who flew Business Class to BALI return for a grand total of zero points plus minimal taxes. They sent us all out an email saying that they would honour it and they hope we enjoy the biz class experience etc.
I'd already prepared myself for the ACCC fight if they didn't honour it, but they did.

What's good for one is good for the other!

 

[777]

I'm not so much annoyed at the condition itself (that's up to VA/VFF) I'm annoyed that it was not made clear and the fact no one I spoke to within VA/VFF knew of that condition either which resulted in me spending a whole morning on the telephone as if I have nothing better to do with my time.

Fair enough. I'm with you there.

 

[kevrosmith]

Was listening to the onhold message tonight (strangely enough, I'm not usually onhold that long!) and interestingly noted that the message regarding guaranteed reward bookings stated: "and seats to any destination worldwide". Doesn't necessarily state from where...

 

[eastwest101]

Was listening to the onhold message tonight (strangely enough, I'm not usually onhold that long!) and interestingly noted that the message regarding guaranteed reward bookings stated: "and seats to any destination worldwide". Doesn't necessarily state from where...

Last time I checked, Australia is part of the world.

swanning_it - while it appears that VA may have "gottcha" with their interpretation of the T&Cs, I am also subscribing to this thread with great interest! Please let us know how things work out.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I am also subscribing to this thread with great interest! Please let us know how things work out.

To those of you who are awaiting further instalments to this soap opera saga, I really hate to disappoint, but it won't go further from my end. The reality is, VFF have correctly applied their T&Cs. I'm annoyed I wasted a morning to find that out, but I have no desire in wasting more time arguing the point with them and I have absolutely no intention of complaining to the ACCC!

Hopefully VFF will alter their web site (yes I know, stop rolling around laughing, hell may freeze over soon too) so it is clear for all future reward guarantee users who fall into the same trap.

I'll be buying my tix rather than using reward points but I'm sure I'll find other bargains on which to use my VA points!

 

[eastwest101]

Its still interesting that the T&Cs prohibit the booking and yet the booking was able to be made, and then cancelled and not honoured. It does not say much for the training and knowledge of the staff that it had to go to this length to get an answer, even though it probably wasn't the answer that some wanted.