Has QANTAS made the biggest marketing blunder of all time?

[Sprucegoose]

Please explain.

Very clever....P Hansen. Says it all!

 

[Alanslegal]

It seems the QF award booking engine has pulled out DXB for the time being. I was planning to book something today and its no longer there. Last week it was there and all those J and F available awards *yummy*!

 

[anat0l]

Lets go all out.... Hobart Dubai!

That'd be awfully nice - one stop flying from HBA to Europe would be appreciated, though the DRW crowd might be yelling unfair since they are a major centre too (OK so the Territory is not part of the federation of states........)

HBA could use international full stop; no idea why no spark (even SQ) has entertained the idea now. Unless Tasmania is really too small or too "regional" to support international operations.

Does anyone recall if HBA airport is rated to handle the modern passenger widebodies at normal operational loads?

Finally.... would HBA-DXB and DXB-HBA be too far for current aircraft?

 

[JohnK]

I don't know what you have seen, I can only take the view and form an opinion on what I have seen.

That is fine and you won't have any issues with the new merger.

All I am saying is don't jump down someone's throat because their opinion differs from yours. We all have different experiences and sometimes we only see what they want us to see.

And name calling is totally childish....

 

[Sprucegoose]

That'd be awfully nice - one stop flying from HBA to Europe would be appreciated, though the DRW crowd might be yelling unfair since they are a major centre too (OK so the Territory is not part of the federation of states........)

HBA could use international full stop; no idea why no spark (even SQ) has entertained the idea now. Unless Tasmania is really too small or too "regional" to support international operations.

Does anyone recall if HBA airport is rated to handle the modern passenger widebodies at normal operational loads?

Finally.... would HBA-DXB and DXB-HBA be too far for current aircraft?

I think it can land a 747, under conditions, not sure about the 777/380.

Facilities are very spare, no aerobridge that would work, they would need to get some ladders from Bunnings.

 

[mannej]

Why not a 777?

 

[Chicken]

I am more concern about the political stability of that region. Uprise? Close airspace. Riot? Tanks and rockets and air strikes. Not UAE itself, but the region as a whole.

Let me put it this way. I do have a thing for going to dodgy places (although I have not already done so). However, I can go to the middle east or Africa or North Korea when I WANT to see crazy things; but I do not want to use an airline which rely on dodgy airspace when I just want a brain dead simple trip to UK or Germany.

I somehow see this move by Qantas as burning the bridge with OneWorld and LHR / HKG / SIN, and worry that it would be a lot more difficult to get help from OneWorld / LHR / HKG / SIN if some event happens in the middle east.

 

[anat0l]

I am more concern about the political stability of that region. Uprise? Close airspace. Riot? Tanks and rockets and air strikes. Not UAE itself, but the region as a whole.

Let me put it this way. I do have a thing for going to dodgy places (although I have not already done so). However, I can go to the middle east or Africa or North Korea when I WANT to see crazy things; but I do not want to use an airline which rely on dodgy airspace when I just want a brain dead simple trip to UK or Germany.

I suppose the carriers in that area have been dealing with the same thing for a while. Not sure if it's entirely significant, let alone crazier than, say, London airspace being shut down by snow.

I guess you can always go around problem areas - which requires extra fuel - mind you, some routes on the existing SIN-LHR route go around DXB anyway (and probably pass near said pretentious airspace and would require a detour anyway). Unless for some reason air strikes can hit Dubai airport.

There are uprisings all the time in the Israel region or around that; doesn't seem to stop El Al services much, let alone the countless flights going to and from TLV each day by other carriers. (Yes, it probably "helps" that most of these carriers are 'Western' carriers).

Anyway, that's my thoughts. My take on it that such events would be rare to call the airspace unreliable. Any event would be no different to any other freak event that closes significant airspaces, e.g. snow, volcano eruptions, airport strikes

I somehow see this move by Qantas as burning the bridge with OneWorld and LHR / HKG / SIN, and worry that it would be a lot more difficult to get help from OneWorld / LHR / HKG / SIN if some event happens in the middle east.

Let's see what QF do about DXB - they did say they are setting up an office there, so I'm guessing they won't just palm off responsibilities to some contract service (then again, I suppose they could just give it to Toll Dnata).

If something happens in the Middle East, you either sit tight otherwise there are other oneworld options to get you out of DXB - BA to LHR, AY to HEL, S7 to OVB, RJ to AMM and CX to HKG.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Why not a 777?

If you believe wiki then yes they can with weight restrictions.

Hobart International Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Chicken]

If something happens in the Middle East, you either sit tight otherwise there are other oneworld options to get you out of DXB - BA to LHR, AY to HEL, S7 to OVB, RJ to AMM and CX to HKG.

Our relationship with British Airways is an important part of the Qantas story. I have been in discussion with my colleague and friend CEO Willie Walsh, and we have agreed that the time is right to wind up the Joint Services Agreement.

We currently have an Asian flying schedule based on travelling via Asia to Europe.

Qantas will increase dedicated capacity to Singapore, and re-time flights to Singapore and Hong Kong

I have serious doubt about increasing flight to Singapore, since Qantas will effectively terminate there.

Hong Kong? They will just re-adjust timetable. Does that mean cutting service? Not that it means much for transiting wise, Since Cathay Pacific Dragon Air do 'CityFlyer' type of run from Hong Kong to China and Taiwan.

I guess, what I am saying is, think about buses. Instead of multiple cross city bus routes going from A to B via different highways. If there is an accident on highway #1, there will still be services via the highway #2 to take you from A to B. What Qantas is doing now is funnelling all services into highway #1 for A to B services, while shortening the other original cross city service to a local service. This may make it more difficult for re-balance load if something happens in the middle east.

And I have the opinion that events are less likely to happen in South East Asia than the Middle East.

 

[Sprucegoose]

I guess, what I am saying is, think about buses. Instead of multiple cross city bus routes going from A to B via different highways. If there is an accident on highway #1, there will still be services via the highway #2 to take you from A to B. What Qantas is doing now is funnelling all services into highway #1 for A to B services, while shortening the other original cross city service to a local service. This may make it more difficult for re-balance load if something happens in the middle east.

And I have the opinion that events are less likely to happen in South East Asia than the Middle East.

Ok so you are trying to mitigate a risk that if there is serious disruption through the middle east then Qantas will be hamstrung whereas now they fly through BKK/HKG/SIN?

I think if you route through Asia you still need to fly over some pretty undesirable airspace.

From a business perspective I dont understand what the real risk is though, and if I did I would struggle to put a value on it and the cost of mitigation.

Was that your point?

 

[Chicken]

From a business perspective I dont understand what the real risk is though, and if I did I would struggle to put a value on it and the cost of mitigation.

Was that your point?

From Qantas point of view? I don't know, since I haven't seen their books / business plans.

From me as a passenger? Another reason not to / do not have to fly with Qantas? (I can already fly VS if I want to stop in Asia, or VA if I want to stop in the Middle East)

 

[deadfish]

I am more concern about the political stability of that region. Uprise? Close airspace. Riot? Tanks and rockets and air strikes. Not UAE itself, but the region as a whole.

Let me put it this way. I do have a thing for going to dodgy places (although I have not already done so). However, I can go to the middle east or Africa or North Korea when I WANT to see crazy things; but I do not want to use an airline which rely on dodgy airspace when I just want a brain dead simple trip to UK or Germany.

I somehow see this move by Qantas as burning the bridge with OneWorld and LHR / HKG / SIN, and worry that it would be a lot more difficult to get help from OneWorld / LHR / HKG / SIN if some event happens in the middle east.

So is ICN a dodgy airspace as well? The DMZ is only a hundred or so kms away.

Or how about SIN/KUL/BKK, where "politically unstable" countries (Myanmar, Laos, Indonesia et al.) are only a stone's throw away. Or in the case of BKK, a degree of instability actually within the country.

Or to put it another way, when was the last time DXB or AUH have actually closed due to "uprisings"? Have tanks and rockets bombarded the streets of Dubai in recent times?

 

[nlagalle]

From me as a passenger? Another reason not to / do not have to fly with Qantas? (I can already fly VS if I want to stop in Asia, or VA if I want to stop in the Middle East)

And you can do exactly the same with QF too.. fly to SIN, BKK HKG and then onto London. (code sharing with CX or BA)

 

[MrJetset]

Which side is ignorant of facts? You assume because you see and hear something that is the truth or the facts?

I know and understand what I have seen. I know and understand what I have heard. It is clearly evident in Australia. Look around you. The 2 cultures cannot clearly meet in the middle.

So, why would I want to transit a place that does not understand tolerance or beliefs not the same as their own? And I am the one being called stupid, ignorant and a racist?

Ummm, are you serious? I presume your referencing the integration of Arabs and our 'intolerant beliefs?' Or Muslims? I guess we're interchangable right?

Fact: An Arab is anyone whose mother tongue is Arabic.
Fact: Not all Arabs are Muslim.
Fact: Muslims and Arabs are not a single monolithic entity. There are diverse ethnicities and beliefs within each and every community.
Fact: The UAE has no intolerance of other beliefs.
Fact: Australia has long had a problem with 'other cultures.' From the government policies of extermination, assimilation and integration of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander People and the shameful White Australia policy.
Fact: Samuel P. Huntington's great work 'Clash of Civilisations' is a fallacy and has been widely discredited.

Do not tell me 2 cultures cannot meet when I am the living example of an Australian, of Arab descent who is proud of his identities (and yes, there are multiple).

 

[Chicken]

where "politically unstable" countries (Myanmar, Laos, Indonesia et al.) are only a stone's throw away. Or in the case of BKK, a degree of instability actually within the country.

That's why I avoid Vietnam and Myanmar despite flights via those places are dirt cheap. (although also because of safety issues).

And you can do exactly the same with QF too.. fly to SIN, BKK HKG and then onto London. (code sharing with CX or BA)

None of us can say, until the new timetables are released, and until we know what is going to happen with their arrangement with One World (they already say they will cut tie with BA).

 

[deadfish]

That's why I avoid Vietnam and Myanmar despite flights via those places are dirt cheap. (although also because of safety issues).

I wouldn't fly to/via Yemen, a ME country with real political instability, in its current state; However that won't stop me (and shouldn't stop anyone) from booking a flight that goes through DXB.

 

[mannej]

None of us can say, until the new timetables are released, and until we know what is going to happen with their arrangement with One World (they already say they will cut tie with BA).

They are not completely cutting ties with BA, they have already stated that.

 

[nlagalle]

None of us can say, until the new timetables are released, and until we know what is going to happen with their arrangement with One World (they already say they will cut tie with BA).

As pointed out they have not cut ties with BA, simply the JSA is terminating next year, you will still be able to codeshare on BA. They aren't cutting ties with OW either. so you will still be able to fly CX from HKG or BA. nothing is changing in that respect!

 

[dajop]

...
Qantas will increase dedicated capacity to Singapore, and re-time flights to Singapore and Hong Kong

I have serious doubt about increasing flight to Singapore, since Qantas will effectively terminate there.

Look at the words carefully. Increase dedicated capacity does not equal increase flights, it simply means that because the services are no longer continuing to LHR, any replacement flights (such as those announced for MEL and SYD) and existing services (such as those from BNE, ADL and PER) will have more dedicated capacity for Singapore only, as opposed to holding the seats for LHR bound pax. They could probably run A330's between MEL/SYD and SIN and pare PER back to 1/day and still "increase dedicated capacity" to Singapore.