High Court reveals every current judge is a member of Qantas' Chairman's Lounge

Mr H said:
I am sure QF is not crass enough to offer CL membership in return for specific favours. It is more subtle than that - just predisposing influential people to be in a positive mood whenever they think about QF - or perhaps creating a sense among those people of a general sense of obligation.
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I agree and that is a very invidious and opaque form of influence. There is a substantial body of research into feelings of reciprocity and that is exactly what CL is trading on developing with its members.

And your comments point to exactly the potential for the sort of subtle predisposition that @MARTINE was talking about with pharma companies and doctors upthread. This sort of thing is everywhere. They don’t do it for nothing or altruism , it costs a business significant money to market in this way. They clearly expect a quid pro quo somehow.
 
Pushka said:
So the discomfort level is rising a little?
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I think there’s a line. A regulator is probably part of that line.

Politicians are ultimately answerable to the public. Pollies would do anything to get voted back in, so they’ll read the room.

Public servants not related in any way to aviation? Possibly ok. But why?

But a regulator as a member seems little more than a gift of hospitality. Surprised the heads e organisations actually accepted!
 
MEL_Traveller said:
Public servants not related in any way to aviation? Possibly ok. But why?

But a regulator as a member seems little more than a gift of hospitality. Surprised the heads e organisations actually accepted!
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I am not persuaded that any public servant should be accepting CL membership. It looks to be a high value gift that was given with the intention of securing some form of benefit, and refusal of the gift would not cause offence. If nothing else, CL membership encourages travel when it might not be necessary, and encourages CL members to use an airline that might not be offering the best fare of the day. At worst, it could encourage the whole organisation to gear its travel policies around supporting Qantas.
 
Pushka said:
This is what you wrote
Quite old fashioned to assume that MPs partners are ladies/men of leisure just following their partner around on official business
🤷‍♀️

Your second paragraph appeared as a comment of public funding.
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You claimed I was wrong because world leaders took their partners to the coronation. Even though I had already noted sometimes first lady/man have hosting duties; but that doesn't cover other MPs there is only 1 leader.

IMO it is old fashioned to be a non working partner able to follow a partner around on a whim, and very entitled if your MP partner is a minor minister. Most people happily go on business trips without needing their partners to come. It is common these days for both the people in a relationship to have their own career.

It is also perfectly reasonable that the partner will be travelling regularly without their MP partners, so if gifted CL/WP/SG membership, they shouldn't have to be with partner to use it.

And agree it's discriminatory to say it's ok for someone with a partner to have a +1 but singles can't?
 
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Mr H said:
and encourages CL members to use an airline that might not be offering the best fare of the day.
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Ime this isn't generally an option, you generally have to book via corporate travel portal or service that enforces travel policy.

The last government funded work travel I had, domestically you had to take the lowest priced flight within 2 hours of your required departure time. Outgoing flights had to be inflexible for best price; return could be flexible with sign-off from manager but needed a justification where missing flight for official business may risk missing booked one.

That said because of discounts and network QF was always cheaper for capital city travel, I only ever flee virgin to Albury or Port Macquarie on occasion.
 
MEL_Traveller said:
I think there’s a line. A regulator is probably part of that line.

Politicians are ultimately answerable to the public. Pollies would do anything to get voted back in, so they’ll read the room.

Public servants not related in any way to aviation? Possibly ok. But why?

But a regulator as a member seems little more than a gift of hospitality. Surprised the heads e organisations actually accepted!
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Ah yes - our politicians - all very happy to accept the pay rises that come with the indexation of public service wages and conditions, and making laws for the private and public sectors of the economy, but somehow manage to exclude themselves from privacy laws, anti-spam laws, truth in advertising laws, defamation etc etc that everyone else must obey....

Not a surprise that some of the senior aviation regulators (ATSB & CASA), and the ACCC and various other government bodies, and many judges and politicians are CL members.

I found the proposed NACC gifts and benefits register mentioned on their site, which will be published in their first quarter report once operations commence. That will be another s$%tshow as I can't see how an organisation such as the NACC with such a broad remit could ever conceive where possibly future investigations of corrupt conduct could lead them, much like the High Court Judges who have no way of forseeing who will end up in their courtroom. Even the highest anti-corruption body most recently established won't have real-time disclosure of gifts/benefits and a way of tracking perceived conflicts of interest.
 
Seat0B said:
I agree and that is a very invidious and opaque form of influence. There is a substantial body of research into feelings of reciprocity and that is exactly what CL is trading on developing with its members.

And your comments point to exactly the potential for the sort of subtle predisposition that @MARTINE was talking about with pharma companies and doctors upthread. This sort of thing is everywhere. They don’t do it for nothing or altruism , it costs a business significant money to market in this way. They clearly expect a quid pro quo somehow.
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The absolute best (but worst) example being the US (and to an extent here) Oxycontin crisis conceived by the Sacklers
Big pharma got into bed with the everyone from POTUS down including the regulators . TGA approval was granted by the scientist who was holding out for a long time due to (proven) junk science that addiction potential low and then went onto work for Purdue on quadruple the salary. Ditto many form district attorneys.
You may think off topic but not - what did they do - travel, hospitality computers research grants…….
The drug reps were given unlimited hospitality and entertainment budgets for doctors and bonuses calculated on mg of drug prescribed😩

Shameful
 
Happy Trails said:
LOL - From the Qantas Code of Conduct and Ethics:
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The 'out' of course being "in order to improperly influence an outcome...", meaning its only prohibited when there is a specific motive attached.

"Me giving the head of [regulatory agency] and [all the hierarchy in that agency] CL membership in order to influence them? Oh no! No, no, no ... never crossed my mind. Honest. I was just being nice." :rolleyes:
 
Lynda2475 said:
Ime this isn't generally an option, you generally have to book via corporate travel portal or service that enforces travel policy.

The last government funded work travel I had, domestically you had to take the lowest priced flight within 2 hours of your required departure time. Outgoing flights had to be inflexible for best price; return could be flexible with sign-off from manager but needed a justification where missing flight for official business may risk missing booked one.

That said because of discounts and network QF was always cheaper for capital city travel, I only ever flee virgin to Albury or Port Macquarie on occasion.
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Yes that occurred for me too
APS Whole of Government contract

SOFT POWER
Trouble with this system was someone had to own and operate the booking website
All roads lead back to Rome (soft power)
As result as mentioned QF fares surprisingly BFOD
usually I booked the 6am or 8pm flights at which times these were not the popular timeframes

On my PRIVATE travels (golden handcuffs status credits was the soft power to keep you flying them)

All roads lead to Rome
 
Happy Trails said:
LOL - From the Qantas Code of Conduct and Ethics:
View attachment 343567
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I think "bribe" is not correct in this situation. A bribe seeks a specific thing in return - a quid pro quo. QF would correctly say here that they had no expectation that their provision of CL access would lead to a judge deciding to give a ruling in QF's favour when the judge knew that to be an incorrect ruling; or that it would lead a politician to veto a rival's bid for slots when the politician believed that to be the wrong course of action. Rather, it just ensures that when anyone of influence considers QF, they do so in a good mood with a smile on their face. Kinda like sometimes you have to pick the right moment to ask for something, and CL access means any moment is likely to be a good moment. Gifting and hospitality is particularly dangerous because it can create situations where neither the gifter nor the recipient realise the extent of an obligation it may foster.
 
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Hello, another one. From the AFR on-line

Incoming Reserve Bank governor Michele Bullock has updated her register of personal interests after failing for more than a year to declare she was a member of the exclusive Qantas Chairman’s Lounge.

The Australian Financial Review contacted the RBA on Thursday to confirm whether Ms Bullock’s declaration, last updated in June 2023, was accurate. It stated that neither she nor her husband had any memberships where conflicts could arise, including to “airline clubs”.
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Despite the oversight, Ms Bullock’s membership of the Chairman’s Lounge was included on a separate publicly available register of gifts. The register shows she received membership of the exclusive club in May 2022, just one month after she was appointed RBA deputy governor, following the surprise resignation of Guy Debelle.
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Reminded me of this

“We’re all in this together”

Wildcats scoring on the court
 
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Lynda2475 said:
Ime this isn't generally an option, you generally have to book via corporate travel portal or service that enforces travel policy.
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In my experience, how strictly that is enforced depends on how senior you are as a public servant or what terms have been included in your contract if you’re a contractor. I have not had much difficulty getting the flights I want on the airline I want.

I agree with @Mr H that CL membership is likely to be a factor that sways people to choose QF. And the type of people ho have CL membership probably don’t have to follow the same policies as mere mortals.
 
MARTINE said:
You may think off topic but not - what did they do - travel, hospitality computers research grants…….
The drug reps were given unlimited hospitality and entertainment budgets for doctors and bonuses calculated on mg of drug prescribed😩
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This sort of behaviour was the topic of my PhD but in the context of public sector procurement. Free memberships that are exclusive and not offered publicly to everyone are a major source of perceived, if not actual, conflicts of interest. It’s such an interesting topic. I could go on for … oh about 100,000 words 😆
 
Seat0B said:
This sort of behaviour was the topic of my PhD but in the context of public sector procurement. Free memberships that are exclusive and not offered publicly to everyone are a major source of perceived, if not actual, conflicts of interest. It’s such an interesting topic. I could go on for … oh about 100,000 words 😆
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But, did it get you an invitation to CL?
 

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