Hoon drivers: is seizing vehicles enough?

[thewinchester]

I've got to get something off my chest right now, so sorry if my ideas for removing people's hands later in this post doesn't sit well with you...

Another day, another hoon driver who thinks the streets around my house can be turned into a skid pan.

I make a point of reporting them each and every time, because you just don't do that on the roads regardless of where you are, and everyone is entitled to peace and quiet in a residential area. The driver of this vehicle created so much smoke from his burnouts that I literally could not see the apartment block across the street.

On of the big problems is that unless the cops witness it, you have video/pictures or you can identify the driver of the vehicle without any shadow of a doubt - then the crown has almost zero chance of scoring a conviction against the offender, let alone seizing the vehicle.

In any case, is seizing vehicles of hoon drivers enough of a risk to stop them doing it. I'd suspect not, and I propose getting biblical on their backside and chopping off their hand(s).

Imagine, Forest Chase in Perth, Friday lunchtime. Crowd has gathered, big wooden tree stump in the middle of the plaza and six grown men (and some little boys not old enough to be out of school shorts) cowering in fear while a masked man sharpens a massive axe waiting for the appointed hour where they will have their hand(s) legally amputated thanks to their misdeeds.

Ok, its a little barbaric, cruel and might have been lifted out of the medieval times, but it would sure make people think twice before putting their foot down in a public place ever again.

Right, hoon driver rant over. Let's move on to something else.

 

[codash1099]

I've got to get something off my chest right now, so sorry if my ideas for removing people's hands later in this post doesn't sit well with you...

Another day, another hoon driver who thinks the streets around my house can be turned into a skid pan.

I make a point of reporting them each and every time, because you just don't do that on the roads regardless of where you are, and everyone is entitled to peace and quiet in a residential area. The driver of this vehicle created so much smoke from his burnouts that I literally could not see the apartment block across the street.

On of the big problems is that unless the cops witness it, you have video/pictures or you can identify the driver of the vehicle without any shadow of a doubt - then the crown has almost zero chance of scoring a conviction against the offender, let alone seizing the vehicle.

In any case, is seizing vehicles of hoon drivers enough of a risk to stop them doing it. I'd suspect not, and I propose getting biblical on their backside and chopping off their hand(s).

Imagine, Forest Chase in Perth, Friday lunchtime. Crowd has gathered, big wooden tree stump in the middle of the plaza and six grown men (and some little boys not old enough to be out of school shorts) cowering in fear while a masked man sharpens a massive axe waiting for the appointed hour where they will have their hand(s) legally amputated thanks to their misdeeds.

Ok, its a little barbaric, cruel and might have been lifted out of the medieval times, but it would sure make people think twice before putting their foot down in a public place ever again.

Right, hoon driver rant over. Let's move on to something else.

+1. Except that it's not the hands that I'd amputate. Although in most cases, the appendage I have in mind is probably too small to worry about. :evil:

 

[ejb]

+1. Except that it's not the hands that I'd amputate. Although in most cases, the appendage I have in mind is probably too small to worry about. :evil:

It must be hot in Perth today:shock: the villagers are waving pitchforks

ejb

 

[thewinchester]

+1. Except that it's not the hands that I'd amputate. Although in most cases, the appendage I have in mind is probably too small to worry about. :evil:

LOLarious.

Make me think of this classic Queen of Wands cartoon from 2003: Charles Darwin and the chainsaw of natural selection. If it benefits society and the gene pool at the same time - then +1 for removing that additional appendage.

 

[Travel Guru]

I like to believe that Karma will take care of these idiots, and sometimes it's so nice when the universe works its magic while you're there to see the nice dose of Karma being dealt out.

I was driving southbound on the Pacific Motorway heading back to the Gold Coast last Monday when a moron in his bright yellow and obviously fairly new Hummer sped past me changing lanes erraticely only to clip another car as it proceeded to almost swerve into another lane, sending the car out of control and tossing it onto it's side in the middle of the M1.

Thankfully noone else was hurt, but the driver I dare say (or should hope) has learnt his lesson.

I do agree we need to come down tougher on these clowns who seem to think that just because the bank will give them the money to buy a high performance vehicle that all of a sudden they possess the skill of a Craig Lowndes.

Personally, I think what needs to happen is:
1. Raise the driving age
2. Limit P plate drivers in their first 6 months to no passenger aside from a parent
3. Limit P platers to 4 cylinder vehicles for the duration of their Probationary Licence
4. Limit P plate drivers ability to carry passengers after 7.30pm
5. Come down harder on the hoons and take away their licence for longer.

TG

 

[drron]

Well you are being quite conservative with your suggested punishment.A former poster(whose ability to get a response i miss) suggested an Uzi as the appropriate response to traffic violations such as driving in the left lane.Then again he is a former poster.

 

[2muchplastic]

There was a similar kind of call back in the UK, when the police were given powers to seize and crush offender's vehicles for a given range of driving offences.
At the time people were requesting those of little brain who were caught a second time (you'd have to be very hard of thinking really!) be crushed with their cars!

Can't see an issue with that myself, so long as it can be extended to those people who think that welding a drainpipe on to their car instead of an exhaust to make the car sound like a flatulent elephant is a good idea.

 

[samh004]

They need large prison sentences, of course, the proof is the problem, and the judges they come up in front of always seem to be lenient.

I recall a 3 strike rule a while ago where the third strike resulted in the car being crushed into a block and given back to the owner. Was that just a dream, or was it too barbaric? Then again, your idea to chop off their hands was probably barbaric!

Do you think it falls within a citizens right to lay a spike strip across the road as a drifter comes round the corner? I think it should be!

 

[thewinchester]

Thankfully noone else was hurt, but the driver I dare say (or should hope) has learnt his lesson.

Good to hear everyone including yourself are OK physically, seen enough bad traffic accidents to know how horiffic the outcome can be even from such a simple clip.

Personally, I think what needs to happen is:
1. Raise the driving age
2. Limit P plate drivers in their first 6 months to no passenger aside from a parent
3. Limit P platers to 4 cylinder vehicles for the duration of their Probationary Licence
4. Limit P plate drivers ability to carry passengers after 7.30pm
5. Come down harder on the hoons and take away their licence for longer

I would go even further on some of these.

Firstly, people under the age of 25 should not be able to acquire or operate a high performance vehicle.

Over the age of 25, You should only be able to own or drive a high performance vehicle if you have passed (and re-qualify every couple of years) a rigorous advanced driver training course and sign a contract re-enforcing what is expected from you.

In that contract would be a clause that if you are found to have driven the vehicle in a manner which breaches the traffic code, your vehicle is immediately seized and sold. Simple, one strike and you're out.

It doesn't matter if you're in the middle of the bush miles from the nearest town, or trying to get to work late one night - you lose the vehicle then and there never to see it again and have to make your own way to the destination.

But just as restrictions are a reactive strategy, there needs to be a proactive component as well.

Relevant Government agencies need to put together a plan to provide a socially acceptable and safe environ for people with these types of cars to let off some smoke.

They also need to ensure this 'service' is communicated effectively, working directly with local car dealerships, modification & performance shops and the like to help get the message out there and build relationships of trust with this community segment.

I would totally support using public monies to subsidise opening of a local race track a couple a few times every month, which you can take your performance car to have some fun.

It gives these people a safe, stable and legal environment for this kind of activity, and also allows public safety agencies (police, fire, ambulance) to connect with this segment of the community to keep the safety message fresh.

While they're working with them, why not have educated police resources available they can go to before doing modifications to get a neutral 'umpires' verdict if a modification is legal before they fork out megabucks on the work. Gives them an avenue to build trust and respect in the Police force, and shows that they understand that segment enough to work pro-actively with them so they can still have there fun legally.

I think that most people in these circumstances that a license to operate a vehicle is a privilege bestowed upon you by society and not a right. If you abuse that privilege, then you should lose it... and be given directions to the nearest place where you can hail a cab or buy a multi-trip bus pass.

 

[samh004]

Not just to play Devil's Advocate here, but also because my sister is currently on her L's, I don't think taking away rights because of a few bad apples is the way to go. That's how the world has ended up in the position it's in today.

My sister was lucky to get her license before the last change of rules came in, but it's still going to make her wait till at least June to take the driving test. She has to log 100 hours of driving with an Open license holder of at least a year (which I only just got to, so for 6 months she hasn't been able to practice due to my parents absence).

When she gets her P's, she probably wont be able to drive our 4WD, that she's been practicing in, plus she'll probably be forced to drive less due to restrictions she didn't have when she was a learner. Cars, times, passengers…

Every person that does something wrong in the world seems to ruin it for everyone else that does it right. Just look at air travel these days.

I don't think more restrictions on how we get licenses, how we keep licenses, and what we can spend our hard earned money on is the way to go.

However, just to play the extremist for one moment. Most… or should I say all, hoons, drive manual cars. It's the thrill and skill of changing gears the quickest and building up speed and all that. So if you really want them off the road, don't allow anyone to drive manual cars anymore. Lets all go automatic and be boring.

 

[trooper]

Mainly good stuff here...

Can't agree however with the idea of taxpayers money being used to "provide a venue"...

I have two objections to that idea...

1. Lack of effectiveness. The real morons (the dangerous ones) are attracted to these activities largely by their illegality... they don't go to "track days" or join clubs that give access to tracks etc..

They WANT to do it where it is NOT allowed...that is a significant part of the attraction to them...

2. The blackmail factor... Some folks here in Canberra who "want" a dragway (yet apparently don't want to fund it...) also claim that such a facility will get the hoons off the streets...

What.. so if we DON'T fund it for them they'll continue breaking the law and endangering all and sundry?

THAT is a "reasonable" argument is it??

Wow.. imagine if us target shooters (who lease land and pay for all the improvements etc ourselves) went out and set up targets in public parks and ran shooting competitions and then tried THAT line....:mrgreen:

"Hey. we'll stop it if you buy us a range!":shock::shock:

 

[ejb]

Not just to play Devil's Advocate here, but also because my sister is currently on her L's, I don't think taking away rights because of a few bad apples is the way to go. That's how the world has ended up in the position it's in today.

My sister was lucky to get her license before the last change of rules came in, but it's still going to make her wait till at least June to take the driving test. She has to log 100 hours of driving with an Open license holder of at least a year (which I only just got to, so for 6 months she hasn't been able to practice due to my parents absence).

When she gets her P's, she probably wont be able to drive our 4WD, that she's been practicing in, plus she'll probably be forced to drive less due to restrictions she didn't have when she was a learner. Cars, times, passengers…

Every person that does something wrong in the world seems to ruin it for everyone else that does it right. Just look at air travel these days.

I don't think more restrictions on how we get licenses, how we keep licenses, and what we can spend our hard earned money on is the way to go.

However, just to play the extremist for one moment. Most… or should I say all, hoons, drive manual cars. It's the thrill and skill of changing gears the quickest and building up speed and all that. So if you really want them off the road, don't allow anyone to drive manual cars anymore. Lets all go automatic and be boring.

A few good points Sam. Too many people get to their 40's and 50's and start this "I am old and wise so do what I say not what I have done" rubbish and they forget that they once drove drunk through a paddock chasing cows and it was fun!

Why not just punish those who break the law and leave everyone else alone. It is already cost prohobitive to get a licence in NSW when you need to log 100+ hours. The reason more P platers get fined for things is the fact that there is now 3 times as many. When I got my licence P plates lasted 1 year now 3, ergo 3 times more people on their P plates. Perhaps a good system would reward good driving while punishing bad driving. 2 years with no penalty you get your full licence. That will surely encourage good driving while if you keep speeding/breaking the rules you stay on your P's forever.

ejb

 

[medhead]

However, just to play the extremist for one moment. Most… or should I say all, hoons, drive manual cars. It's the thrill and skill of changing gears the quickest and building up speed and all that. So if you really want them off the road, don't allow anyone to drive manual cars anymore. Lets all go automatic and be boring.

I'm on iPhone so can't do a detailed response. So a couple points.

Samh004 your showing your lack of driving experience with this. I have a few years experience and I take great pleasure in beating the hoons to 60 kph away from the lights in my boring automatic car. I've even wiped the floor with an rx3 in a LPG powered station wagon taxi. Also Adelaide has had a couple of big hoon accidents in Ferrari. They have flappy paddle auto boxes

Drron????? Uzi for people in the left lane??? That is where they are supposed to be. Keep left unless overtaking

edit: of course the Rx3 sounded a bit sick....

 

[drron]

Sorry I thought i was back in LOTFAP again,of course right hand lane.

 

[samh004]

Flappy paddles are basically manual. They’re banned too

I like putting my foot down at the lights too, but it doesn’t mean they’ll ever want to be in an auto when they can drive a macho manual so to take the extremist route would be to take away their ability to get a manual

And I doubt they’re worried about fuel economy at the speeds they go.

ejb, very good idea with rewarding good P platers and punishing bad ones, I wonder why they haven’t taken this approach. I think it’s 200 hours now in QLD for L platers before they can even take the test for a P plate.

 

[medhead]

ejb, very good idea with rewarding good P platers and punishing bad ones, I wonder why they haven’t taken this approach. I think it’s 200 hours now in QLD for L platers before they can even take the test for a P plate.

Well the simple answer is because this is too hard. The various australian governments are caught in a lock hold by the various, so called, safety lobby groups. like the pedestrian council and other similar groups. These groups want to impose control. But they don't realise that this is counter productive. It allows people to break the law with less risk. I do it myself, if I see that their a give way or stop signs on the intersection ahead, I take less care. If I see an intersection that is clear uncontrolled I pay more attention. But the lobby groups can only think control and punish.

Take the example of the reduction to a 50 speed limit or Speed Kills. We got a 50 limit because people don't get hurt as bad at 50 as at 60. If we follow that logic then the speed limit needs to be 0.

As for speed kills, Sorry it is hitting something that kills, not speed. I regularly drive on straight, almost perfect roads where I can see everything for about 5 to 10 kms, why can't I do 130 to 150 on that road? Because of lobby groups.

WE gotta knee cap these short sighted, do gooder, road safety people before we can get anything as sensible as what you suggest.

 

[2muchplastic]

....As for speed kills, Sorry it is hitting something that kills, not speed. I regularly drive on straight, almost perfect roads where I can see everything for about 5 to 10 kms, why can't I do 130 to 150 on that road? Because of lobby groups.....

With you all the way on this one. If "every k over is a killer" then why aren't more people dying? Having driven on German autobahns (and even French and UK motorways) at speeds we can only dream of in Australia, surely I should be dead too??

And speed does not kill - it's normally deceleration that kills, such as when one meets a tree at 80kph and the tree wins.

I don't believe the issue is necessarily with the young learner drivers. They have so many rules piled on them, but new arrivals into the country do not have the same applied. You can pitch up at the airport with what appears to be a full license from the country of origin, and yet no checks are done, or doable.
(And before anyone starts screaming racism, I am a recent arrival)

I believe it is horribly unfair to presume that the problem is all to do with new young drivers, when the same standards and duration of tuition that L and P platers have to go through are not applied equally across all members of society.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Their cars should be taken away.
They should receive large fines.
And, beat the s**t out of 'em, and l mean, BEAT the S**T out of 'em. Only way they will learn.

Same with drink driving. NO EXCUSE!!! I've had way to many friends pass away, far to young. It's shocking.

Something has to be done.
There is too much of a booze culture in Australia.

 

[Mal]

I used to hang around a guy who would be identified as a Hoon. This was when I was 18ish - ie a long, long time ago.

I can see both sides. They are bored, and are looking for something to do. People want their peace and quiet respected.

I won't go into the details, but we generally had good times. There were some bad times too. He actually met his partner (I think they're married now, but not 100% sure) through these activities.

I think a caution and crush technique works well. It would have made him think differently at the time I think.

 

[russ]

200 hours? I think you can get a commercial pilot's licence in fewer hours than that! Crazy!