Hotel charged $500 after checkout without telling us

[SRS65]

Being an Australian Hotel - please assist with the name / location so we are informed.

 

[Warks]

Interesting how this story was selected for the Gazette despite it still being in contention owing to the non-response of OP. No judgment, just odd that it would be highlighted.

 

[Flying_man]

Seem like this could be the fake news. But anyway, the favourite part of thread like these is reading armchair lawyer giving faulty legal advice. Very entertaining.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm guessing this isn't one of the "finer" establishments which dedicated AFF'rs strive to achieve high status with?
I guess this is also a salutatory lesson which will probably require you to do a photo record on entry and another on exit to ensure you're not scammed again

 

[Renato1]

No one can sue him for naming the hotel. It is a fact and thus telling the fact is not an offense. Name the hotel and the manager without any fear.

Yes he can be sued.
It may be a fact, but it is not a proveable fact in Court, unless the OP photographed the entire room in detail before and after staying in it. Rather it is an allegation.
Why leave one's self open to lawfare?
Regards,
Renato

 

[Oliver Brown]

MAybe the manager of the hotel brought some old habits with them from when they worked at Avis....

 

[Robert66]

Would not accidental damage in a hotel room be covered by insurance? Is there a little more to this report than meets the eye?

 

[blaz]

Sounds rubbery. What was broken , why would Amex agree with the hotel and why not name the hotel as long as you stick to the facts? Seems to me ,that the only issue is the value of the damage and who was responsible. Without this information, it is a guessing game.

 

[theblank]

We found $500 on our credit card after checkout and they never told us and we would appreciate advice regarding what to do.

This is a civil dispute between you and the hotel. Look up the Fair trading/Consumer affairs websites in your state for advice how to proceed.

AMEX cant honour the chargeback becuause when you booked the hotel or checked in, the Hotel took your Credit card and you signed/pinned for a 'deposit' which means you agreed to the charge. All hotels do some sort of security deposit. This is what the hotel has done, they have replied to AMEX and said "look, here is evidence the cardholder approved this transaction" as well as likely showing the checkin agreement that you have physically signed.

This sucks, but reality is, AMEX cant fight this one for you.

Firstly, the hotel cannot charge your credit card because he does not have the authority. There is no agreement between the hotel and your self that they can charge your credit card for anything and therefore ask Amex to provide your authority to charge to your credit card. .

Not true at all. Think about how its even possible the hotel charged his credit card, if they didnt have his credit card.

Your circumstances may have been different, especially if for example it was neither an online or card present transaction, like they photocopied your credit card numbers, and entered a manual sale.

 

[Dr Faldown Strangely]

Hello All

I had a situation like this at the El Dorado by Outrigger on Maui.

Kaanapali Hotels and Vacation Condos | Kaanapali Maui at the Eldorado by Outrigger® | Maui, Hawaii

It was actually messier, so avoid what I did.

I hated the way the too-numerous framed prints were arranged in the rooms for our 10-day stay so I took 2 down and shuffled the positions of the rest. I put the two safely away, partly behind a chest of drawers with the frames sticking out one side about 30cm. (I was intending to put them back up...but in the departure, I omitted to. Hey, don't kick me.)

Anyway, the room cleaner told him I stole the paintings, so he ordered new copies right away. All the suites were paid for on my mother-in-law's credit card and so I got to hear about her being charged US$700 after the fact. She didn't want to pursue it. (Yeah, they have a lot more money than me.) But it was very embarrassing for me.

I called him up and discussed the issue. They found the original prints. He ("Shaun") wouldn't reverse his action.
I then pointed out that since the originals were still in his possession, the ones he had purchased were our property, so I would prefer he return them for a refund. He refused to do that.
I then asked that he mail me the paintings as proof that he really had purchased them. He refused all the ways this could have been done. He said I was welcome to have them if I cared to drop by the hotel in Maui to collect them (from my home in Western Australia).

 

[Mark3000]

Firstly, the hotel cannot charge your credit card because he does not have the authority. There is no agreement between the hotel and your self that they can charge your credit card for anything and therefore ask Amex to provide your authority to charge to your credit card. I had a similar situation with a hotel in New Zealand and they charged my Diners Club Card. I got Diners Club to reverse the charges and they did. If Amex refuses to do, take them to Financial Ombudsman but I am sure they will reverse because you did not give your authority.
Secondly, I wonder why are you hiding the identity of the hotel and the manager as this should have been done at the first instance. Anyway, do it now.

Sorry for the delayed reply, work has been busy. The hotel is The Beach Cabarita.
We disputed it with Amex and they processed it somehow to investigate a fraudulent payment for a merchant we have never dealt with and when the manager sent a copy of the check in $500 hold, Amex said they were not going to reverse it. We called them again and said no, the issue is not that, they did swipe our card, the issue is that they cannot charge $500 without telling us and charging $500 for paint chips in an apartment that has not been renovated for 10 years is unreasonable. We are waiting to see what Amex do next.
Thanks everyone for your input, it is most appreciated

 

[opusman]

Did you pay for the room on your Amex at check-out? If so, Amex can clearly see that the $500 was a pre-auth holding deposit and that the bill was settled in full when you left. I would argue that settling the account voids the hotel's right to claim the holding deposit after checkout.

 

[Mark3000]

Interesting how this story was selected for the Gazette despite it still being in contention owing to the non-response of OP. No judgment, just odd that it would be highlighted.

I’m so sorry for the delayed reply!!!
From searching on the internet it seems this has happened to other people too and it’s hard to see how to avoid it without taking lots of photos on Check-out like we all do with a rental car.
The thing that really upsets me is that the manager refuses to reply to emails and will not send photos of the supposed damage.

 

[JackMiles]

An interesting reply from the manager to the relevant tripadvisor review.

 

[Mark3000]

An interesting reply from the manager to the relevant tripadvisor review.

Oh my god, I just saw that, the lies!!!!
They have not replied to the emails, no quote or evidence of damage.
The bedrooms have super bright lights outside in the halls that make it impossible to sleep so we put tape around the edge of the blinds and forgot to take it down. Their cleaner has ripped it off but if it had been peeled off gently it would have been fine.
Even if there were some paint damage painting the inside of the window frames would not cost $500.
It beggars belief that we would be stupid enough to rip it off, damage the paint and leave the tape there.
I guess legal action is the only option

 

[Beano]

Very sorry to hear about your predicament. I once put tape around a communicating door because the next door occupant was smoking and it came through. But I removed it with no damage. I have been charged, after my stay, for minibar items I did not use, but a quick phone call reversed it.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Looks like their cleaner caused the damage, not you.
Cheers skip

 

[Isochronous]

This is a civil dispute between you and the hotel. Look up the Fair trading/Consumer affairs websites in your state for advice how to proceed.

AMEX cant honour the chargeback becuause when you booked the hotel or checked in, the Hotel took your Credit card and you signed/pinned for a 'deposit' which means you agreed to the charge. All hotels do some sort of security deposit. This is what the hotel has done, they have replied to AMEX and said "look, here is evidence the cardholder approved this transaction" as well as likely showing the checkin agreement that you have physically signed.

This sucks, but reality is, AMEX cant fight this one for you.






Not true at all. Think about how its even possible the hotel charged his credit card, if they didnt have his credit card.

Your circumstances may have been different, especially if for example it was neither an online or card present transaction, like they photocopied your credit card numbers, and entered a manual sale.

That's a bit simplistic. Otherwise one could never do a chargeback for failure to supply goods or services as per the description - because one 'signs' the payment slip, even though say, for example, you ordered a table and the table which was delivered was in a damaged condition. It is all about the underlying evidence and the burden of proof rests squarely on the hotel.

 

[Mark3000]

For anyone who is interested, here is the email I sent her. Quite reasonable I would think to ask for proof but they have refused to supply proof.


Dear Cabarita team,
I am beyond disappointed with the events of today. I have been a huge fan of your hotel and love the area. I was planning to come again in 2019. We had some problems with our stay this time, but I understand these things happen and was not going to make a big deal about any of it. To be charged $500 without informing us though is deceitful and dishonest and potentially illegal and I am surprised that a reputable establishment would behave in such a fashion.

The back bedroom has so much light streaming through at night that it was extremely difficult to get the children to sleep and you have admitted that this is a problem for other guests as well. Rather than complain we put some tape up there and I am very sorry that I forgot to remove it, but I got called back for work urgently and I do apologise about that. The tape was only attached gently and to a small area and was attached so weakly with cheap tape that every night it would spontaneously start separating so I am very surprised it could have removed any paint. Clearly whoever removed the tape, did so in a careless fashion and must share responsibility for any paint damage. I would like to see time stamped photographs to document the "damage" and will be happy to share any costs to correct it if it is sufficient to warrant that.

To claim that the entire room needs repainting is an ambit claim and simply preposterous. Only the window sill would need painting and it would take all of 5 minutes and require the tiniest amount of paint. The window frame is clearly demarcated from the wall and it is unreasonable to suggest that the wall would require re-painting. That room gets almost no natural light and is so dark during the day I find it hard to believe that it would be noticeable. How could a reasonable person claim that the entire room needs repainting? Especially in a run down apartment that has not been renovated in many years at least. Without seeing the photographs it is not possible to be certain but I would argue that it would not be visible to a person standing at the doorway of that room.

Even IF it does require repainting, it would take far less than an hour and any handyman would be able to do that at minimal cost, so how can you possibly justify taking $500. I would estimate 30 minutes work for a handyman at $50 per hour plus materials so there is no way that you could justify more than $50. That sort of extortionate charge is theft and exactly the sort of behaviour that the ACCC fines companies for.

Not only that, do you seriously think it is good for your reputation to have us post on Tripadvisor that you charged us $500 WITHOUT EVEN THE COURTESY OF TELLING US for such a trivial episode.

We had to put up with a noisy running toilet and a dirty, musty smelling apartment and did not complain. I actually fixed your Insinkerator which was not working and had a rusted beer bottle top jammed in it that had been there for months at least.

I also fixed the Ice maker which was jammed up and had not been maintained in ages.

The thing I love most doing on holidays is exercising in the gym and that was blocked off during our stay which was extremely annoying, but rather than make a fuss we just let that go.

Twice I saw rats run across our balcony, including under the chair that my kids would sit on.

The microwave was impossible to use because all of the labels have been rubbed off.

The rug in the living room was so smelly and full of food scraps that we were unable to sit on it and the carpet in the bedrooms was clearly overdue for replacement. I believe you agreed with this when speaking with this when speaking with my wife.

Every wall in that apartment has multiple areas of wear and tear and the tiny amount of so called "damage" is just wear and tear.

We have stayed at your hotel maybe 4 or 5 times over the past couple of years and never with a problem. I am just speechless that you would treat return guests in this fashion.

With regards to the "starfish" we have no idea what that is, and did not see any such ornament. Those sort of kitsch trinkets are available at any discount store for $2 so I cannot even imagine why you would be claiming that justifies a $500 charge.

I would request that you please reverse those charges immediately. If you can provide us with photographic evidence of any damage and a reasonable quote then we would be happy to contribute towards the cost of repainting the window sill.

I am really upset that I have had to spend my very limited lunch break time dealing with this issue today. We had been happy to let all of those issues slide and had decided to not post an unfavourable review on Tripadvisor given our previous good experiences but this has completely soured our memory of your hotel. I cannot fathom why you would behave this way to abuse good return guests for such a trivial issue, that was not caused by any malice.

I would be grateful for your reply.

 

[theblank]

We called them again and said no, the issue is not that, they did swipe our card, the issue is that they cannot charge $500 without telling us and charging $500 for paint chips in an apartment that has not been renovated for 10 years is unreasonable. We are waiting to see what Amex do next.

What does your agreement with the hotel say = the one you signed when you checked in. Its likely you will find out that they can indeed do this.
And either way its still a civil dispute between you and the hotel.

and by you taping up the curtains is probably going to be the one thing that is not in your favour. irrespective of all the other matters mentioned, its your actions that caused it. One needs to be mindful of not jury-rigging anything in hotels, rental properties, rental cars when you have paid a bond or a holding deposit, because any result from that will be deemed your fault no matter how good your intentions were.