How do you book your travel?

[browski]

it really wasn’t to save money (although I am not adverse to saving money if I can).

I had a very specific itinerary that I wanted and it was pretty much point to point, so should have been easy right? CBR-SYD-NBO return. Even easier I wanted to book First, so really that left me with only Emirates, unless I wanted to do something convoluted going through London.

I really wanted the Emirates flight that leaves at 4ish because we wanted to have a decent sleep at the transit hotel before continuing to Nairobi as we are very busy as soon as we arrive. Thought about spending a few days in Dubai but very hot at that time of year and we are already spending too much time away from the fur babies.

Anyway should have been dead simple to put this together at Qantas.com, but Qantas made things hard by having no codeshare for the EK flight I wanted (or even the EK flight without the codeshare). After fiddling around for months hoping it would appear, my options were either to select flights I didn’t want, or give up on Qantas and just book with Emirates (although their website was being difficult with the Canberra connections). I suppose I could have phoned Qantas and asked them, but whats the difference between that and using a TA?

First class guy was very prompt but his first attempt was $600 pp more than I could book (and still didn’t give me the EK flight I wanted).

However Madrooster booked me exactly what I wanted, so Qantas to Syd, EK to NBO and Qantas codeshares back. We will get enough SC for Mr FM to go LTG (I already am), so SC won’t matter next time,

Based on my experience with Madrooster I will definitely use him again. Totally switched on, understood what I was trying to achieve and did it. All done and dusted in a few hours and he even selected the seats for us, as there is a bit of a problem with EK seat selections sticking.

Ok, great, FM.

I don't want to nitpick here, because you seem very happy, but: in terms of an experiment, isn't it a big fail?

• You still didn't get your codeshare flights outbound. Wasn't that the same complaint you had about the Qantas website?
• You ask "what's the difference between using Qantas and a TA" - well the difference typically is the price. As you discovered with First Class Guy - you didn't mention what Mad Rooster cost.
• Also if your flight from CBR-NBO is after Feb 15, isn't QR the smart play? Quicker, Status Credits, Cheaper?

 

[TomVexille]

Ok, great, FM.

I don't want to nitpick here, because you seem very happy, but: in terms of an experiment, isn't it a big fail?

• You still didn't get your codeshare flights outbound. Wasn't that the same complaint you had about the Qantas website?
• You ask "what's the difference between using Qantas and a TA" - well the difference typically is the price. As you discovered with First Class Guy - you didn't mention what Mad Rooster cost.
• Also if your flight from CBR-NBO is after Feb 15, isn't QR the smart play? Quicker, Status Credits, Cheaper?

To nitpick, as I read it, QF wouldn't give her the EK flight she wanted with or without the QF code, so getting it is a win. Especially as it will be on on PNR.

 

[RooFlyer]

I think the Black Knight is having an encore

 

[Flying mermaid]

Ok, great, FM.

I don't want to nitpick here, because you seem very happy, but: in terms of an experiment, isn't it a big fail?

• You still didn't get your codeshare flights outbound. Wasn't that the same complaint you had about the Qantas website?
• You ask "what's the difference between using Qantas and a TA" - well the difference typically is the price. As you discovered with First Class Guy - you didn't mention what Mad Rooster cost.
• Also if your flight from CBR-NBO is after Feb 15, isn't QR the smart play? Quicker, Status Credits, Cheaper?

no Qantas wouldn’t give me the flight I wanted at all - it didn’t appear as a code share or as the EK flight. Booking it myself my choices were

1. All Qantas codeshare but not the flight I wanted
2. No codeshares but the flight I wanted.

Madrooster gave me some codeshares and the flight I wanted. Given Mr FM only needs 400 SC for LTG and this gives him 500, it met our needs exactly. We wanted LTG for him, as he sometimes flies without me and most of the flights between CBR and SYD are all Y, so having Gold is the cheapest way to have lounge access - a lot cheaper than buying a QC membership

Madrooster charged me exactly what I would have paid booking it myself - even the CC fee was capped at $70. In fact he saved me money, as if I had phoned Qantas (and I still don’t know if they would have booked what he did, but let’s assume they would), they would have charged me a phone assist fee (possibly) and then you have to add on the frustration and annoyance of being in a phone queue, which I don’t handle at all well.

QR only flies J from Canberra and only J to NBO. So yes if I wanted to fly J it would have been the smart play, but as I wanted to fly F, a bit of a fail.

I am not saying everyone should use TAs - I have booked all my own travel for years, including a very complicated Aone4 in 2015, with lots of extra domestic sectors with Turkish Air. I have been quite scathing about some of the TAs I have dealt with and I will continue to book my own accommodation. I research where I want to stay and I generally pick quite “special” places, so I am not looking for cheap deals.

My experience with Madrooster was fantastic though. Very smart and efficient and eager to suggest some add ons that would score lots of extra SCs for very little money if I was interested (I wasn’t - the number is 400 and that is all we want. ). If he disappears then I will probably go back to booking myself, but I certainly intend to use him in the future.

 

[browski]

no Qantas wouldn’t give me the flight I wanted at all - it didn’t appear as a code share or as the EK flight. Booking it myself my choices were

1. All Qantas codeshare but not the flight I wanted
2. No codeshares but the flight I wanted.

Madrooster gave me some codeshares and the flight I wanted. Given Mr FM only needs 400 SC for LTG and this gives him 500, it met our needs exactly. We wanted LTG for him, as he sometimes flies without me and most of the flights between CBR and SYD are all Y, so having Gold is the cheapest way to have lounge access - a lot cheaper than buying a QC membership

Madrooster charged me exactly what I would have paid booking it myself - even the CC fee was capped at $70. In fact he saved me money, as if I had phoned Qantas (and I still don’t know if they would have booked what he did, but let’s assume they would), they would have charged me a phone assist fee (possibly) and then you have to add on the frustration and annoyance of being in a phone queue, which I don’t handle at all well.

QR only flies J from Canberra and only J to NBO. So yes if I wanted to fly J it would have been the smart play, but as I wanted to fly F, a bit of a fail.

I am not saying everyone should use TAs - I have booked all my own travel for years, including a very complicated Aone4 in 2015, with lots of extra domestic sectors with Turkish Air. I have been quite scathing about some of the TAs I have dealt with and I will continue to book my own accommodation. I research where I want to stay and I generally pick quite “special” places, so I am not looking for cheap deals.

My experience with Madrooster was fantastic though. Very smart and efficient and eager to suggest some add ons that would score lots of extra SCs for very little money if I was interested (I wasn’t - the number is 400 and that is all we want. ). If he disappears then I will probably go back to booking myself, but I certainly intend to use him in the future.

no Qantas wouldn’t give me the flight I wanted at all - it didn’t appear as a code share or as the EK flight. Booking it myself my choices were

1. All Qantas codeshare but not the flight I wanted
2. No codeshares but the flight I wanted.

Madrooster gave me some codeshares and the flight I wanted. Given Mr FM only needs 400 SC for LTG and this gives him 500, it met our needs exactly. We wanted LTG for him, as he sometimes flies without me and most of the flights between CBR and SYD are all Y, so having Gold is the cheapest way to have lounge access - a lot cheaper than buying a QC membership

Madrooster charged me exactly what I would have paid booking it myself - even the CC fee was capped at $70. In fact he saved me money, as if I had phoned Qantas (and I still don’t know if they would have booked what he did, but let’s assume they would), they would have charged me a phone assist fee (possibly) and then you have to add on the frustration and annoyance of being in a phone queue, which I don’t handle at all well.

QR only flies J from Canberra and only J to NBO. So yes if I wanted to fly J it would have been the smart play, but as I wanted to fly F, a bit of a fail.

I am not saying everyone should use TAs - I have booked all my own travel for years, including a very complicated Aone4 in 2015, with lots of extra domestic sectors with Turkish Air. I have been quite scathing about some of the TAs I have dealt with and I will continue to book my own accommodation. I research where I want to stay and I generally pick quite “special” places, so I am not looking for cheap deals.

My experience with Madrooster was fantastic though. Very smart and efficient and eager to suggest some add ons that would score lots of extra SCs for very little money if I was interested (I wasn’t - the number is 400 and that is all we want. ). If he disappears then I will probably go back to booking myself, but I certainly intend to use him in the future.

Thanks FM,

The Qantas website doesn't carry the inventory of all the EK flights. It seems mainly inbound where there are gaps. Telephoning Qantas direct, does allow you to book those flights; everyone grabs those seats from the same inventory pool. They wouldn't have charged you a phone assist. But who wants to phone.

QR only fly J from Canberra, but they do fly F from Sydney. You are only flying J from CBR-SYD anyway on your Qantas 717.
First Class on the EK flights from DXB - Nairobi (and basically everywhere in East Africa) are all on their 777s. The First Class on these aircraft is worse than Qatar Business Class. In fact, I have never really been able to tell the difference between EK Business and First on these Africa designated 777s. By contrast, connecting with the First Class A380 flight from Sydney, you can fly Business Class on DOH-NBO on their Boeing 787 Dreamliners. So yes, you are flying First Class from DXB-NBO on EK, but the current Business Class product is better on QR. But maybe it is more important to have the F on your ticket.

The money saved, by taking the QR option would have bought Mr FM 5 years of Qantas Club, but he wouldn't have needed to buy it, because he still would have received 480 status credits on the QR option.

Not sure if your Travel Agent explained all that to you.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Thanks FM.
I book a fair few of the EK flights back from DAR, ADD and


Thanks FM,

The Qantas website doesn't carry the inventory of all the EK flights. It seems mainly inbound where there are gaps. Telephoning Qantas direct, does allow you to book those flights; everyone grabs those seats from the same inventory pool. They wouldn't have charged you a phone assist. But who wants to phone.

QR only fly J from Canberra, but they do fly F from Sydney. You are only flying J from CBR-SYD anyway on your Qantas 717.
First Class on the EK flights from DXB - Nairobi (and basically everywhere in East Africa) are all on their 777s. The First Class on these aircraft is worse than Qatar Business Class. In fact, I have never really been able to tell the difference between EK Business and First on these Africa designated 777s. By contrast, connecting with the First Class A380 flight from Sydney, you can fly Business Class on DOH-NBO on their Boeing 787 Dreamliners. So yes, you are flying First Class from DXB-NBO on EK, but the current Business Class product is better on QR. But maybe it is more important to have the F on your ticket.

The money saved, by taking the QR option would have bought Mr FM 5 years of Qantas Club, but he wouldn't needed to buy it, because he still would have received 480 status credits on the QR option.

Not sure if your Travel Agent explained all that to you.

depends on which 777s you get to Nairobi - some have suites and some have ordinary F seats. The ones I have picked are suites. I also like the champagne and chocolates in F - way better than J and also flying J means I can’t go to the F lounge in Qatar. I like F lounges . Can’t comment on Qatar - haven’t flown it yet and it seems good. But I guess my control freak nature wanted to fly F all the way and that is what I got. I am really not trying to save money - at my age I just want to spend it. Too many of my friends are dying with lots of money unspent

I will just gently hint at the fact that you are a teensy bit rude in some of your comments and we might cease our little argument at this point .

 

[RooFlyer]

Hi Flying mermaid

I think what's being said is that you are too silly to work out how and when you want to travel (I'm sure I'm in the same boat ) and that travel agents are all cheaters who rip you off. Sort of like those people who obsess Ford or Holden. The 'other side' and those that drive them are always wrong (usually because they are stupid ) and the product inferior. Even if I demonstrate that my choice is exactly what I want, with the options I want, for a price that is the same as the competitor, and acceptable to me, I will always be wrong because "X is better than Y" and this is self evident and doesn't need any proof. It just is.

 

[browski]

depends on which 777s you get to Nairobi - some have suites and some have ordinary F seats. The ones I have picked are suites. I also like the champagne and chocolates in F - way better than J and also flying J means I can’t go to the F lounge in Qatar. I like F lounges . Can’t comment on Qatar - haven’t flown it yet and it seems good. But I guess my control freak nature wanted to fly F all the way and that is what I got. I am really not trying to save money - at my age I just want to spend it. Too many of my friends are dying with lots of money unspent

I will just gently hint at the fact that you are a teensy bit rude in some of your comments and we might cease our little argument at this point .

No, not being rude, just trying to understand your experiment.

 

[dairyfloss]

Hi Flying mermaid

I think what's being said is that you are too silly to work out how and when you want to travel (I'm sure I'm in the same boat ) and that travel agents are all cheaters who rip you off. Sort of like those people who obsess Ford or Holden. The 'other side' and those that drive them are always wrong (usually because they are stupid ) and the product inferior. Even if I demonstrate that my choice is exactly what I want, with the options I want, for a price that is the same as the competitor, and acceptable to me, I will always be wrong because "X is better than Y" and this is self evident and doesn't need any proof. It just is.

Now now - I think we can all agree that X is never better than Y, although U or P is possibly better than J or F!

 

[JB expat]

I use a TA (another AFF'er) for flights, but book the rest myself. I've even been educated to book QF award flights via phone - that way my TA can add other flights at a later date.

@amaroo - what do you mean by "that way my travel agent can add other flights at a later date" - how does the phone booking help with this and what do you add to flights booked using award miles? thanks!

 

[JB expat]

So...interesting thread. For me, work travel is booked through corporate travel agent (who is horrid - adds zero value as far as anyone can tell - they are switching next year) - we have no choice, so my post is about leisure travel.

I am very interesting in developing a relationship with a good TA - but how to find/and how to develop relationship when big leisure travel trips are at most 1x/year. We are doing a big family trip to the USA with multiple stops in Dec/Jan - using a TA for the first time. I'm having a mixed experience - TA has been very responsive, got the flights we wanted & the sky couch seats that I would have never been able to figure out on my own (after I researched the connections etc.) but during the whole process, I learned that they can only deal with the inventory/relationships they have. I really would like to find a TA who can go outside their wholesale (or whatever it is) network, when the client's request requires such...For a big trip like we are doing, I would pay a fee for the TA's time in looking at what we want to do/where we want to stay/what type of car we want/where we want to pick it up - I spent hours doing my own leg work and I enjoy it - up to a point - I have a very busy day job and young children. Had I been able to hand this off to a TA with full confidence, I would have been thrilled.

As an example to what I'm currently dealing with, I have a weird situation with one of the hotels that I'm hoping works out. I chose the hotel we wanted (a large international chain) and the TA I'm using does have a relationship with the hotel (via their wholesaler - TA has been transparent) - BUT I wanted a very specific type of room that I saw was available on the hotel's website. Well, the TA's wholesaler cannot get the room type I want. Note - the room that the TA could get was significantly cheaper than what I was seeing on line. So the TA arranged that I "pay" for the room they can get, and then gross-up at the hotel but at the full rack rate. It's all documented and I even called the hotels reservation line to confirm that the right room was booked for us (and it is). Being paranoid, I'm also holding a booking made through their website online that I do need to cancel 48 hours before check-in. Because the TA had done a lot of work for me, I felt I needed to stick with them. This whole thing with the room surprised me - part of the situation is my fault - but I've taken the car rentals etc. away from the TA as well because they could not get me the precise locations I wanted again because of whatever relationships they do & do not have. We had very particular needs with locations/types of cars (we need to swap out a few times). I found everything I wanted but it took a while - but it did exist.

anyway - this has been a bit of a quasi-rant...is there any type of TA who could have made this a better experience - even with a reasonable additional cost/fee for their time?

 

[RooFlyer]

Hi JB expat

Sounds like the TA you have been using is of the 'Flight Centre' type, who will only sell you the inventory they have bought in bulk and therefore can on-sell you cheaply - but their range and flexibility is limited.

I don't call the 'Flight Centre' type a 'real Travel Agent. I'll PM you with the firm I use (but not the individual).

With travel only once a year, yes, it will be hard to develop a relationship. The problem for TAs is that people use them to map out their itineraries, then go off and book themselves, so the TA has spent a lot of time for nothing. Therefore on first contact they may not be prepared to go the whole hog for you - depends on how recently they have been burnt. Best to go in and see them in person, if possible.

Also, its important to tell them exactly what you want, or don't want.

Are you looking for the cheapest flights? (Connections will probably be bad)
Flights with departures only during the day?
Itinerary with smoothest connections?
LCC vs legacy airlines of a particular alliance?
Hotels convenient to transport? - ie the Tube in London
Hotels part of chains?
Hotels close to attractions?

This will have a large bearing on price and comfort. Give them precise instructions, else you may get a surprise when you get horrid connections because they thought you wanted the rock bottom price. In fact you might ask them to price the cheapest flights and an itinerary with best connections, to see if there is a difference.

 

[browski]

So...interesting thread. For me, work travel is booked through corporate travel agent (who is horrid - adds zero value as far as anyone can tell - they are switching next year) - we have no choice, so my post is about leisure travel.

I am very interesting in developing a relationship with a good TA - but how to find/and how to develop relationship when big leisure travel trips are at most 1x/year. We are doing a big family trip to the USA with multiple stops in Dec/Jan - using a TA for the first time. I'm having a mixed experience - TA has been very responsive, got the flights we wanted & the sky couch seats that I would have never been able to figure out on my own (after I researched the connections etc.) but during the whole process, I learned that they can only deal with the inventory/relationships they have. I really would like to find a TA who can go outside their wholesale (or whatever it is) network, when the client's request requires such...For a big trip like we are doing, I would pay a fee for the TA's time in looking at what we want to do/where we want to stay/what type of car we want/where we want to pick it up - I spent hours doing my own leg work and I enjoy it - up to a point - I have a very busy day job and young children. Had I been able to hand this off to a TA with full confidence, I would have been thrilled.

As an example to what I'm currently dealing with, I have a weird situation with one of the hotels that I'm hoping works out. I chose the hotel we wanted (a large international chain) and the TA I'm using does have a relationship with the hotel (via their wholesaler - TA has been transparent) - BUT I wanted a very specific type of room that I saw was available on the hotel's website. Well, the TA's wholesaler cannot get the room type I want. Note - the room that the TA could get was significantly cheaper than what I was seeing on line. So the TA arranged that I "pay" for the room they can get, and then gross-up at the hotel but at the full rack rate. It's all documented and I even called the hotels reservation line to confirm that the right room was booked for us (and it is). Being paranoid, I'm also holding a booking made through their website online that I do need to cancel 48 hours before check-in. Because the TA had done a lot of work for me, I felt I needed to stick with them. This whole thing with the room surprised me - part of the situation is my fault - but I've taken the car rentals etc. away from the TA as well because they could not get me the precise locations I wanted again because of whatever relationships they do & do not have. We had very particular needs with locations/types of cars (we need to swap out a few times). I found everything I wanted but it took a while - but it did exist.

anyway - this has been a bit of a quasi-rant...is there any type of TA who could have made this a better experience - even with a reasonable additional cost/fee for their time?

No

 

[RooFlyer]

anyway - this has been a bit of a quasi-rant...is there any type of TA who could have made this a better experience - even with a reasonable additional cost/fee for their time?

No

So: No-one at all - not a single TA anywhere, even paying them a fee!!

Enough said ...

 

[JB expat]

So: No-one at all - not a single TA anywhere, even paying them a fee!!

Enough said ...

so RooFlyer - is there such a thing...I would be very happy to start working with such a TA!

 

[RooFlyer]

so RooFlyer - is there such a thing...I would be very happy to start working with such a TA!

Give the one I PMed you about a try for starters.

In respect of your original post:

but during the whole process, I learned that they can only deal with the inventory/relationships they have. I really would like to find a TA who can go outside their wholesale (or whatever it is) network, when the client's request requires such...

I don't know what their "inventory" and "relationships" are about, but most Travel Agents work off the Global Distribution System and any "relationship" is irrelevant. There are some LCCs and hotels in remote places that are not on the GDS, but the GDS "inventory" is just about anything that's bookable, world-wide. Your TA sound like they have a very limited range of suppliers and I wouldn't touch 'em with a barge-pole.

Are they the 'Flight Centre' type?

the TA I'm using does have a relationship with the hotel (via their wholesaler - TA has been transparent) - BUT I wanted a very specific type of room that I saw was available on the hotel's website. Well, the TA's wholesaler cannot get the room type I want.

Again "relationship" with the hotel via a wholesaler???? Who needs it? If the hotel isn't on the GDS (rare, but it does happen), my TA just calls or e-mails the hotel and makes the booking of exactly the room I want! They use my cc, so its in my name and exactly the same as if I did it myself - except they use their time, I save my time, and its all in their neatly packaged itinerary. Note also that they get no commission in doing it this way - again, its all about the relationship. So as not to stretch that relationship, I usually book these places myself, but they will do it for me if I ask.

So, you might see how silly browski's "No" comment was (amongst others)

 

[drron]

Oh Rooflyer.Browski has probably tried every single agent in Australia so is very confident in his answer despite us old dinosaurs begging to differ.

 

[CaptJCool]

What is going to be interesting is the future of OTAs. Airlines don't really like them since they can make more money if they sell direct, and although a lot of people book using one, customers don't really like they since they charge extra fees (whether for booking, for changes, or something else). If someone can figure out how to put the "TA" in "OTA", and provide the experience and knowledge of a real travel agent, but online, I think they'll capture quite a bit of the market.

right now an OTA is really just an OBS (no no not what you thought it's not online BS, its online booking service with stuff all after sales support. As result, point-to-point bookings are doable yourself especially domestic dirt cheap red-e deals with little commission.

Our work portal is a DIY gig...rolls eyes how easy it that. Make sure you get the little green icon and you're good to go

I'd like a booking service that starts with champagne in a "lobby" like this
Boss Babes Inc.

Nothing like being a boss, babe.....lol with great after sales support !

 

[madrooster]

Again "relationship" with the hotel via a wholesaler???? Who needs it? If the hotel isn't on the GDS (rare, but it does happen), my TA just calls or e-mails the hotel and makes the booking of exactly the room I want! They use my cc, so its in my name and exactly the same as if I did it myself - except they use their time, I save my time, and its all in their neatly packaged itinerary. Note also that they get no commission in doing it this way - again, its all about the relationship. So as not to stretch that relationship, I usually book these places myself, but they will do it for me if I ask.

Fright centre have a tendency to only book anything available via a wholesaler because they want their commission on the spot. Wholesalers generally pay out on the spot

 

[Flying mermaid]

I always book my hotels direct and although I do a little check to see what the online guys prices are, it has been years since I found a hotel that was more expensive and often they offer an extra something that is not price related. I don’t stick to any particular brand, so don’t have anything other than base memberships.

Anyway was taking advantage of our strong dollar to book my last hotel for the African trip (Hemingways in Nairobi), and was very surprised to find Expedia was about $110 per night cheaper than booking direct with the hotel. Tried a few others (booking.com, small luxury hotels etc) and they were the same as the hotel. Quickly booked and made a note to be more rigorous about checking in future. Look after the cents and there is more to spend on travel