How strictly does QF enforce the 4~ requirement for retention of status?

[flyingfan]

Does the original routing rule for QFF points apply to ~ too? For instance, if you were booked on at BNE -SYD-MEL earning 2~ but was involuntarily moved to a direct BNE-MEL earning just 1~, does the original routing rule give you the 2~ even though it's one flight?

Yes, in my experience.

When I applied for original routing credit, I got the ~ (and points and SCs) for the original flights booked. I did not get the ~, points or SCs for the flights Qantas moved me to.

 

[tyrolean]

Yes, in my experience.

When I applied for original routing credit, I got the ~ (and points and SCs) for the original flights booked. I did not get the ~, points or SCs for the flights Qantas moved me to.

Same here. I only had an issue with a rebooked JASA, but that was sorted out after three mails. Just claim an orignal routing credit.
Beeing based in Europe it can be quite hard to get the 4 Segments, but it is still managable.

 

[castie]

Could you do an AA challenge to get the corresponding QF Gold?
Flights can be on any one world carrier.

 

[trentusjuventus]

Also maybe just consider how much retaining SG is worth to you (as the answer is going to be different for everyone). If you come to the conclusion that it is worthwhile, you could try and find some cheap QF domestic whY sectors out of your home city, with a connection one way and a direct back, hence getting you your 4 QF segments.

 

[samh004]

I agree with Jack3193 re: 4~ being insufficient a requirement, it should be higher, or as he points out, a certain amount of SC earned on QF flights would work too. 100 for Silver, 200 for Gold, 400 for Platinum. Hardly a stretch for most people. And the program would still be pretty simple to understand.

 

[Timsboot]

Ok thanks. I'm really interested in OW status, rather than points, so earn/burn rates aren't very important to me. So unless I can get to OW Sapphire with another airline I'll probably stick with QF.

I just completed the AA Plat challenge with only one J class return on QF (BKK-SYD). Cost is US$240 for the challenge but gets you OW Sapphire.

 

[Jack_OC]

Could you do an AA challenge to get the corresponding QF Gold?
Flights can be on any one world carrier.

I just completed the AA Plat challenge with only one J class return on QF (BKK-SYD). Cost is US$240 for the challenge but gets you OW Sapphire.

This could be a winner actually, if I'm understanding the rules correctly. So basically my next intl flight will be a J return to EU, booked with Finnair (ironically including two sectors on QF metal, but not QF codes!). That would seem to get more than enough miles to get AA Plat (= OW Sapphire), and is it correct that status would be valid until Feb 2016?? If so, I think that would be well worth $240.

Also maybe just consider how much retaining SG is worth to you (as the answer is going to be different for everyone). If you come to the conclusion that it is worthwhile, you could try and find some cheap QF domestic whY sectors out of your home city, with a connection one way and a direct back, hence getting you your 4 QF segments.

Yeah, I may consider that. There are two problems though - 1. finding the time to do it and 2. the cost is likely to be $300+, but obviously would only get me an additional year of status, so it doesn't seem like it would win over the AA option above. Wrt Gold being worth it or not - to be honest I'm not sure. When I travel internationally it's almost always in J (although funnily enough I'm sitting in a BA lounge right now before a flight in Y, courtesy of my QF status!). I haven't travelled a whole lot domestically recently, and when I do it's as likely to be with VA as QF (hence my lack of ~). However, a couple of years ago I went through a period where I was travelling domestically in Y with QF about twice a month, and the lounge access with SG status then was a Godsend. And the thing is, that could happen again, my work related travel is unpredictable. As such, I'm reluctant to let the status go, but on the other hand not really willing to spend a huge amount of time and/or money to retain it.

 

[cross]

Disagree, the 4 ~ mechanism is actually a pretty good way of ensuring some loyalty to QF without cutting off advantages to earn with OW. The QF loyalty rules get more stricter for P1.

I agree, 4~ is plenty to ensure loyalty, especially if they want the program to be worthwhile to international QFF customers. If it wasn't for Jetstar Airways/Asia/Japan it would be almost impossible to get or retain status without making a trip or two back home to Australia each year.

If the 4~ count was increased it may force me to reconsider using another FF program which would probably result in my flying 0 flights with Qantas. Alternatively it would force me to fly more Jetstar flights...

 

[Jack_OC]

I agree, 4~ is plenty to ensure loyalty, especially if they want the program to be worthwhile to international QFF customers. If it wasn't for Jetstar Airways/Asia/Japan it would be almost impossible to get or retain status without making a trip or two back home to Australia each year.

If the 4~ count was increased it may force me to reconsider using another FF program which would probably result in my flying 0 flights with Qantas. Alternatively it would force me to fly more Jetstar flights...

What you appear to be saying is that 4~ is attainable for you, even though you don't live in Australia and don't necessarily fly back to Australia each year. That's great, but being attainable for you and ensuring loyalty to Qantas are two different things. If you have QFF gold or above and you only just about get 4~ by flying with Jetstar a few times, then it's clear that the majority of your air travel is with other airlines.

As I've said before, the current system results in some people not getting status despite passing the SC thresholdand gaining a reasonable proportion of their SCs with QF directly (or in exceptional cases, up to 100% of their SCs with QF!). On the other hand, someone can get platinum despite gaining fewer than 3% of their SCs with QF. As someone else pointed out, QF already have a true measure of loyalty in the P1 criteria (a large number of SCs gained on QF codes), so if they really wanted to ensure loyalty to QF specifically for the other status levels they'd do the same. As such, the more I think about it, the more I suspect the purpose is indeed just to try to limit the program to people in Australia and/or who travel to Australia frequently. Since several OW carriers have exactly the same requirement (and it a just about the only criterion in common), it may have been an agreement between them to sow up their respective home turfs.

 

[UP4014]

A good QF customer for the year would travel more than 4 times on A QF plane. After reading this I'd be all for them making it 6. :mrgreen:

You didn't plan on worrying about the status so unless you are prepared to book 3 red-e-deals I'd guess you'll have to go back to not worrying about the status.

Status with an airline should be about how much you do actually use their planes.

Matt

 

[Wannabee]

My gf and I flew to SYD-SIN, SIN-LHR, LHR-(DXB)-SYD as a FASA. This is only counted as 3 sectors therefore she is not Gold due to the 4 required sectors yet but has spent the equivalent of around $40,000. It is a shame that the LHR-SYD leg doesn't count as 2~ unless you stop over which costs more but you have still flown the same?

 

[cove]

Mrscove travelled with QF about a dozen times one year but all bar 3 rides were Classic redemptions so blip went her status despite the SC count. Naturally I copped the blame for her status crunch and she has been WP ever since I paid more attention to the 4 rule. It was not negotiable.

 

[Mwenenzi]

I always assumed the intention was to prevent people who mostly live outside of Australia from getting QF status, because as you say, it's relatively cheap to get 4~ on domestic flights.

Before the rule was enforced people in the USA could relativley easily get QF Gold, and therefore free QF club and AA lounge access (including free drinks). AA does not have free lounge access (or free drinks) due to status for USA dometic flights: domestic lounge access is paid with cash. As a guess QF then paid AA for this lounge access. If you have not flown 4 QF flights you are hardly a loyal customer. QF have received little of your money.

 

[serfty]

... If you have not flown 4 QF flights you are hardly a loyal customer. QF have received little of your money.

That's too much of a generalisation.

What about someone who travels SYD-LAX-MEL-SYD in Business on QF for $7000 earning 360 SC's and three ~'s when compared with MEL-ADL-MEL-ADL-MEL for $350, earning 40 SC's but 4 of those precious ~'s.

 

[samh004]

My gf and I flew to SYD-SIN, SIN-LHR, LHR-(DXB)-SYD as a FASA. This is only counted as 3 sectors therefore she is not Gold due to the 4 required sectors yet but has spent the equivalent of around $40,000. It is a shame that the LHR-SYD leg doesn't count as 2~ unless you stop over which costs more but you have still flown the same?

That's a rare issue that should be fixed too, but only an issue to a few people.

And it's not the equivalent of $40,000 unless you spent that, points value is a lot lower I'd hope that spending that cash though would yield leeway

 

[serfty]

Jack - not sure Finnair counts. You will need to do the research but not all OW airlines are in the challenge

For more on that (BA, AA, QF, IB & JL being eligible for the challenge) see this thread: http://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/american-airlines-aadvantage/aa-platinum-challenge-mileage-earning-8595.html

In relation to discussion on AA Status Challenges, some posts have been moved/copied here: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....enges-questions-general-discussion-54435.html

 

[cross]

That's too much of a generalisation.

What about someone who travels SYD-LAX-MEL-SYD in Business on QF for $7000 earning 360 SC's and three ~'s when compared with MEL-ADL-MEL-ADL-MEL for $350, earning 40 SC's but 4 of those precious ~'s.

I agree, it is way too much of a generalisation, and I don't see why people would be wanting them to increase it anyway? It would be like asking them to increase the price of the ticket?

Like you I spend a reasonable amount with Qantas now as my trips home are normally always in Business. Since moving from Singapore to Tokyo they are now on QF metal (instead of SQ with *A) and I normally do at least one trip per year. This year I did two. I also did a couple of Australian domestic flights on QF metal when I was back so easily met the 4~ trips this year. I also like that we can get the 4~ using Jetstar as there might be a year when I don't go back to Australia with relatives visiting me over here instead.

 

[Wannabee]

And it's not the equivalent of $40,000 unless you spent that, points value is a lot lower I'd hope that spending that cash though would yield leeway

Don't tell me gf that. I'll never be allowed to go long way around ever again. She did complain when I made us go to NAN from SYD via BNE, MEL, SYD though. She saw the reason when we were sitting in F earlier this year though

 

[Jack_OC]

If you have not flown 4 QF flights you are hardly a loyal customer.

I don't know if you're intentionally missing the point here, but you're certainly missing it so I'll have another go at explaining. I agree if you have flown less than 4 QF flights you can't claim to be a loyal QF customer (and I'm certainly not claiming to be a loyal QF customer). My point is that if you haveonly flown 4 QF flights you still can't claim to be a loyal QF customer. That's especially the case if your 4 QF flights account for a small proportion of your total SC earn- as I mentioned previously it could be less than 3% of the SCs required to qualify for WP. In other words, the 4~ rule simply does not ensure status is only given to loyal QF customers. It does however, make it very difficult to get QF status if you don't live in or frequently visit Australia, which as you point out yourself may be the motivation.

QF have received little of your money.

Actually they've received a lot more of my money (or more accurately my employer's money) than if I'd flown two domestic Y returns and gained the 4~. (Not sure if you missed it but my one ~ so far was in J to LAX). Again - the number of ~ is not a measure of revenue that QF get from you.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

You could always get the 3 x ~ flights as someone mentioned by doing a return red-e-deal to SYD (eg MEL/xCBR/SYD/MEL) but when it comes to crediting your paid J flights you could credit to AA instead & start building status with them.