docjames
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2007
- Posts
- 9,458
- Qantas
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Trying really hard for this to not be a rant, but i think an illustration of the "difficulties" faced by QFi and perhaps an insight into why QFi are struggling.
Context was mrsdoc and I travelling to EU in J class (paid, unusual for us!).
Trying to book during QF/EK tie-up limbo period (Jan-Feb) so crazy $13000 airfares (J).
Pricing Issue #1 - BA had sale on so a $7k fare which we got discounted further (subsequently too late for us but QF did have a $6999 sale once the tie up completed). Not really an issue but unfortunate timing for us and for QFi as at that price they almost certainly would have got our business.
So we booked me via SYD outbound (I went 5 days earlier), mrsdoc via HKG (QF to HK, BA to LHR) - mrsdoc prefers HKG to SIN. We also both prefer not to connect in SYD inbound (well documented reasons abound on AFF).
Then QF changed their HKG timings, so we switched (foc) mrsdoc to via SYD outbound (2hr had become 6hr), and we kept both via HKG on the way home, with a 2hr connection now pushed out to 4hrs but we were fine with this.
Basically, BA were excellent. The biggest gripe for me was really minor - the menu showed three champagnes, then onboard they said "we only have the Tattinger". Happy crews, good attention without being intrusive, easy transit in LHR (amazing), easy outbound transit in SYD (amazing), priority luggage worked, seats were good (lie flat), the narrowness didn't bother me (and i'm far from narrow!). All in all, a good experience. Happily use BA again. In fact, very happily.
Then we got to HKG on the return leg.
Background # 1 - annoying that QF29/30 is now A330 and not 744 (personal aircraft preference). Timings also not as good as previously.
Background # 2 - already annoyed that QF dropped the status bonus earn on BA (which was offered) and short notice to this (see other threads, wont re-hash here).
Background # 3 - raised # 2 with QF, got system email "we got your letter" - 6 weeks later, no response whatsoever. Irritated by lack of response even more than #2.
So to the QF "experience":
Weirdness # 1 - our 3E/F seating (so we both get aisle access without climbing) had changed on checkin to 2J/K. No idea why, turned out 3E remained empty and the rest of the cabin was full - maybe 3E was broken? Who knows.
Enlightening #1 - Whilst the QF lounge is "adequate", it's too dark, the food's not that great, the lounge staff were making barely intelligible announcements. Gratingly, there is a huge sign at the entrance of the "new" J seats (Skybed II). Knowing full well the majority of QF flights to HK are on A330s with Skybed Is (for some time at least).
I know i'll be using the CX "wing" from now on. Much better, natural light, better food etc etc etc. Sure, probably not a fair comparison given relative pax volumes, but as OWS I know which one i'll be using in HK. And was no where near as full as the QF lounge with all three Aus flights leaving concurrently.
Once onboard, confusion reigned. It was as if the crew had never worked a QFi flight before. Couldn't find things, no identifiable CSM, "weird" vibe (I cant really explain it that well, but following are more examples of the "clunkiness").
Miffed # 1 - no pre departure drink (despite offering to the row in front and behind). Middle of row 2 also not offered. No idea how they missed a whole row, the pax in the middle of row 2 clearly weren't impressed either. Given we were delayed departure by ~ 20 mins (storms around HK), they had plenty of time and passed by and even looked at us - but failed to spot we had no drinks!
Miffed # 2 - they offered pyjamas around the cabin, one crew member apparently carrying M/L and one carrying a pile of L/XL. mrsdoc got given the M/L. When I pointed out the one they gave me was the wrong size - ie. they had a mix and hadnt given me L/XL I clearly asked for (and it would be apparent would require for everyone's benefit!), they were indignant to the point of acting like I wasbeing petulant (until i showed them the sticker that they'd given me the wrong size). For the record, I said "I'm sorry, i think you've given me the M/L size".
Miffed # 3 - the crew came around with amenity kits. Ran out after reaching mrsdoc. Recommenced handing out in row 3. Wasn't happy. Eventually had to ask for one post takeoff. Bizarro.
Annoying # 1 - It's an 8hr overnight flight. Taking 2.5hrs to serve dinner is unacceptable, particularly when you start clunking crockery and cutlery through the cabin 2.5hrs out from MEL as well. Leaving all of about three hours for sleeping. I gave up after 2hrs and just skipped dessert. It's one instance where an abbreviated meal service (rather than plate by plate which takes forever) would be preferable. Particularly as this crew seemed no sense of urgency to get through the meal service so pax could sleep. Why you'd do a "drinks trolley" run before serving is crazy given you place the salad and bread roll first, then wait, then entree, then wait, then main, then wait, then dessert (the options of which were terrible). Just do the drinks at the same time as placing the salad, entree and bread. On these "short" overnight flights at least (different to a 3pm departure).
Annoying # 2 - following # 1, given how lousy breakfast is now (a pastry and a coffee, seriously??), waking the entire cabin 2-2.5hrs out of MEL is hopeless. It should take about 30 mins. I'd even favour a rapid dinner (single tray) then a longer breakfast.
Annoying # 3 - mrsdoc complained that the crew spent most of the 3 hrs traipsing up and down the aisle - far from lightly. I didn't notice (had the window seat). It resulted in her getting very little sleep (on top of the abbreviated amount of time).
Miffed # 4 - for all the grief BA get for their food on AFF, the food was better than that on offer on this QF flight. I felt BA's offerings were more appetizing, more filling and more "comfort" than QF's offering.
Annoying # 3 - Geez, the seat "mattress" sure is clunky, i dont understand why you'd go for this mess when you could have just refurbed the seats (again, I know they're being replaced some time by 2020 with Skybed IIs but why not just leave the mattress on the bed). And why place it for aisle pax, then virtually throw it at the window pax (i tried to get up and stand in the aisle as everyone else had, but the crew member basically said "you can do it yourself"). WTF? And then to remove them before landing? I assume as they're detachable, they cant remain due to safety regs, which again means - why not have them affixed to the seats?
Overall Weirdness # 1 - just overall, there seemed no leadership (I couldn't even have told you which crew member was the CSM). The crew did not work well together (overlapping each other, missed things when switching jobs, generally inattentive to pax, bordering on rude at times, taking forever to get stuff done, total lack of co-ordination). FWIW (whcih may be nothing) the crew were all "mature" (in the J cabin at least). In comaprison to the BA crew who were noticeably younger. No idea if that is at all relevant. I did ask one of the crew, they had had a 48hr layover in HK.
So really, we got home safely, relatively on time (30 mins late, 20 of which was "ATC delay" coming into MEL). Checked bags arrived ~ok in MEL - albeit one came with the J priority bags, one towards the start of "the rest". But the whole time onboard, it just felt "weird".
Certainly, by the end of this flight, both mrsdoc and I felt we should have flown BA via SIN and put up with the SYD transfer, or better yet, next time it'll be BA LHR to HKG and CX home from there. Which bodes badly for QF as we've been loyal supporters (particularly mrsdoc - i've been wavering for some time). So the fact we think this should be alarming to QF!
I'll have re-qualified SG/OWS now, so have this covered for another 18 months. Long haul I still like Oneworld, but domestically i'm wavering (trying to keep SG with both). It's just that unless you get a good crew and an A380 (or refitted 744) QFi aren't competitive product wise. You can get away with it if your crew is superb, but they are too hit and miss now on top of a lousy product.
I know it's n=1 on this flight, but over some time we've been wavering due to the "enhancements" over the last number of years, and this one flight may well be the "icing on the cake" for us. Sad, but as the title suggests, I can see why QFi are struggling. When they're good, they're often great, but it's easy to be mediocre. The hard product updates cant come soon enough. Clearly, some of the crew need to align to the new standard too, but if fear still that it'll be too little too late.....
Context was mrsdoc and I travelling to EU in J class (paid, unusual for us!).
Trying to book during QF/EK tie-up limbo period (Jan-Feb) so crazy $13000 airfares (J).
Pricing Issue #1 - BA had sale on so a $7k fare which we got discounted further (subsequently too late for us but QF did have a $6999 sale once the tie up completed). Not really an issue but unfortunate timing for us and for QFi as at that price they almost certainly would have got our business.
So we booked me via SYD outbound (I went 5 days earlier), mrsdoc via HKG (QF to HK, BA to LHR) - mrsdoc prefers HKG to SIN. We also both prefer not to connect in SYD inbound (well documented reasons abound on AFF).
Then QF changed their HKG timings, so we switched (foc) mrsdoc to via SYD outbound (2hr had become 6hr), and we kept both via HKG on the way home, with a 2hr connection now pushed out to 4hrs but we were fine with this.
Basically, BA were excellent. The biggest gripe for me was really minor - the menu showed three champagnes, then onboard they said "we only have the Tattinger". Happy crews, good attention without being intrusive, easy transit in LHR (amazing), easy outbound transit in SYD (amazing), priority luggage worked, seats were good (lie flat), the narrowness didn't bother me (and i'm far from narrow!). All in all, a good experience. Happily use BA again. In fact, very happily.
Then we got to HKG on the return leg.
Background # 1 - annoying that QF29/30 is now A330 and not 744 (personal aircraft preference). Timings also not as good as previously.
Background # 2 - already annoyed that QF dropped the status bonus earn on BA (which was offered) and short notice to this (see other threads, wont re-hash here).
Background # 3 - raised # 2 with QF, got system email "we got your letter" - 6 weeks later, no response whatsoever. Irritated by lack of response even more than #2.
So to the QF "experience":
Weirdness # 1 - our 3E/F seating (so we both get aisle access without climbing) had changed on checkin to 2J/K. No idea why, turned out 3E remained empty and the rest of the cabin was full - maybe 3E was broken? Who knows.
Enlightening #1 - Whilst the QF lounge is "adequate", it's too dark, the food's not that great, the lounge staff were making barely intelligible announcements. Gratingly, there is a huge sign at the entrance of the "new" J seats (Skybed II). Knowing full well the majority of QF flights to HK are on A330s with Skybed Is (for some time at least).
I know i'll be using the CX "wing" from now on. Much better, natural light, better food etc etc etc. Sure, probably not a fair comparison given relative pax volumes, but as OWS I know which one i'll be using in HK. And was no where near as full as the QF lounge with all three Aus flights leaving concurrently.
Once onboard, confusion reigned. It was as if the crew had never worked a QFi flight before. Couldn't find things, no identifiable CSM, "weird" vibe (I cant really explain it that well, but following are more examples of the "clunkiness").
Miffed # 1 - no pre departure drink (despite offering to the row in front and behind). Middle of row 2 also not offered. No idea how they missed a whole row, the pax in the middle of row 2 clearly weren't impressed either. Given we were delayed departure by ~ 20 mins (storms around HK), they had plenty of time and passed by and even looked at us - but failed to spot we had no drinks!
Miffed # 2 - they offered pyjamas around the cabin, one crew member apparently carrying M/L and one carrying a pile of L/XL. mrsdoc got given the M/L. When I pointed out the one they gave me was the wrong size - ie. they had a mix and hadnt given me L/XL I clearly asked for (and it would be apparent would require for everyone's benefit!), they were indignant to the point of acting like I wasbeing petulant (until i showed them the sticker that they'd given me the wrong size). For the record, I said "I'm sorry, i think you've given me the M/L size".
Miffed # 3 - the crew came around with amenity kits. Ran out after reaching mrsdoc. Recommenced handing out in row 3. Wasn't happy. Eventually had to ask for one post takeoff. Bizarro.
Annoying # 1 - It's an 8hr overnight flight. Taking 2.5hrs to serve dinner is unacceptable, particularly when you start clunking crockery and cutlery through the cabin 2.5hrs out from MEL as well. Leaving all of about three hours for sleeping. I gave up after 2hrs and just skipped dessert. It's one instance where an abbreviated meal service (rather than plate by plate which takes forever) would be preferable. Particularly as this crew seemed no sense of urgency to get through the meal service so pax could sleep. Why you'd do a "drinks trolley" run before serving is crazy given you place the salad and bread roll first, then wait, then entree, then wait, then main, then wait, then dessert (the options of which were terrible). Just do the drinks at the same time as placing the salad, entree and bread. On these "short" overnight flights at least (different to a 3pm departure).
Annoying # 2 - following # 1, given how lousy breakfast is now (a pastry and a coffee, seriously??), waking the entire cabin 2-2.5hrs out of MEL is hopeless. It should take about 30 mins. I'd even favour a rapid dinner (single tray) then a longer breakfast.
Annoying # 3 - mrsdoc complained that the crew spent most of the 3 hrs traipsing up and down the aisle - far from lightly. I didn't notice (had the window seat). It resulted in her getting very little sleep (on top of the abbreviated amount of time).
Miffed # 4 - for all the grief BA get for their food on AFF, the food was better than that on offer on this QF flight. I felt BA's offerings were more appetizing, more filling and more "comfort" than QF's offering.
Annoying # 3 - Geez, the seat "mattress" sure is clunky, i dont understand why you'd go for this mess when you could have just refurbed the seats (again, I know they're being replaced some time by 2020 with Skybed IIs but why not just leave the mattress on the bed). And why place it for aisle pax, then virtually throw it at the window pax (i tried to get up and stand in the aisle as everyone else had, but the crew member basically said "you can do it yourself"). WTF? And then to remove them before landing? I assume as they're detachable, they cant remain due to safety regs, which again means - why not have them affixed to the seats?
Overall Weirdness # 1 - just overall, there seemed no leadership (I couldn't even have told you which crew member was the CSM). The crew did not work well together (overlapping each other, missed things when switching jobs, generally inattentive to pax, bordering on rude at times, taking forever to get stuff done, total lack of co-ordination). FWIW (whcih may be nothing) the crew were all "mature" (in the J cabin at least). In comaprison to the BA crew who were noticeably younger. No idea if that is at all relevant. I did ask one of the crew, they had had a 48hr layover in HK.
So really, we got home safely, relatively on time (30 mins late, 20 of which was "ATC delay" coming into MEL). Checked bags arrived ~ok in MEL - albeit one came with the J priority bags, one towards the start of "the rest". But the whole time onboard, it just felt "weird".
Certainly, by the end of this flight, both mrsdoc and I felt we should have flown BA via SIN and put up with the SYD transfer, or better yet, next time it'll be BA LHR to HKG and CX home from there. Which bodes badly for QF as we've been loyal supporters (particularly mrsdoc - i've been wavering for some time). So the fact we think this should be alarming to QF!
I'll have re-qualified SG/OWS now, so have this covered for another 18 months. Long haul I still like Oneworld, but domestically i'm wavering (trying to keep SG with both). It's just that unless you get a good crew and an A380 (or refitted 744) QFi aren't competitive product wise. You can get away with it if your crew is superb, but they are too hit and miss now on top of a lousy product.
I know it's n=1 on this flight, but over some time we've been wavering due to the "enhancements" over the last number of years, and this one flight may well be the "icing on the cake" for us. Sad, but as the title suggests, I can see why QFi are struggling. When they're good, they're often great, but it's easy to be mediocre. The hard product updates cant come soon enough. Clearly, some of the crew need to align to the new standard too, but if fear still that it'll be too little too late.....
