Increase in Base Points/Stay Qualification for Gold & Diamond from 2013

[Moopere]

I am interested that I haven't received an email from HH about this yet. Its nearly years end ... no official mailout to elites???

So I just got the email a few moments ago:

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[TD="width: 560, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"] Dear Mr Moopere,

Thank you for making Hilton HHonors™ your guest loyalty program. With ten distinct hotel brands, you have endless ways to experience the benefits of being an HHonors member.

Over the past few years, we have expanded the benefits for our guests with Gold and Diamond status. They can now enjoy benefits such as complimentary space-available room upgrades, high-speed Internet access, breakfast, and up to a 50% bonus on all Base Points earned on every stay.

Periodically, we need to adapt our program based on industry trends. For the past ten years, we have not changed the qualifications for Gold and Diamond status. As of January 1, 2013, we will adjust the requirements to qualify for elite status in 2014. To qualify for Gold status, HHonors members must complete 20 stays, 40 nights, or attain 75,000 Base Points within the calendar year. To qualify for Diamond status in 2014, members must complete 30 stays, 60 nights, or attain 120,000 Base Points in 2013. All other tier level qualifications, as well as elite status received through Hilton HHonors credit cards and partners, will remain the same.

We thank you for your loyalty, and we look forward to seeing you at one of our 3,900 hotels and resorts in 2013.

Sincerely,
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Jeffrey Diskin
Executive Vice President, Commercial Services
Hilton Worldwide[/TD]
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I guess I'm mainly annoyed because HH have taken away value that I used and enjoyed during the course of the past 12 months or so, and to then make the program more expensive just seems like gouging.

It doesn't engender a sense of loyalty in me, instead, it makes me look for gaming opportunities - and there are at least a few available at any one time it seems.

This seems to be a common enough problem. Competing programs offering status matches or other 'free' ways to gain status, then realising that they now need to bump up profits to pay for it all, and by so doing devalue the earned status of their truly loyal customers.

Its been mentioned in other threads that there might be value, for everyone, in programs interested in playing this game making a new 'level' of gifted or matched status, with good solid benefits, but slightly different from their high revenue customers ... thus retaining a real loyalty from existing clients whilst still gaining the wanted goodwill from new blood entering their programs from elsewhere.

 

[simongr]

Given general inflation rates the increase in base points seems reasonable - it was always based on spend so for essentially less spend in real terms you were getting status.

I am going to be well off the Diamond requirements next year but this year will hit 145K base points.

 

[YQY]

I've just made it back to Hyatt Diamond this year. I'm concerned that Hyatt may follow Hilton (for nights/stays). Hyatt points don't count towards status.

 

[Moopere]

Given general inflation rates the increase in base points seems reasonable - it was always based on spend so for essentially less spend in real terms you were getting status.

I am going to be well off the Diamond requirements next year but this year will hit 145K base points.

Mmm, yes, I don't know. 25% up. If this is the set standard for the next 10 years, perhaps so. I guess as you say, inflation is causing room pricing to increment higher and higher, so less nights/stays could still reap you status now compared to 5 years ago. As its based upon base dollar value, I can see how it has to ultimately be linked to an increase in the cost of doing business.

The nights/stays increase is more baffling to me. Unless this is the result of their client base slowly shifting over to cheaper brands, like doubletree and whatnot.

HH main competition must surely be SPG ... I wonder what SPG's response to this change will be? If they keep their rates for gaining status the same then they may well benefit significantly from HH refugees.

Its all part of the game, I understand - the constant juggling and repositioning in the marketplace. I guess I'm feeling particularly annoyed because I am already well into planning next years activities and this change now makes me think I need to stop and have a think about whether I really should be pursuing HH for 2014 or whether I should make an early break and go SPG. The thought occurs that I should ring SPG to see if they will status match me. I've got at least 40-50 days next year already on the table, and not yet counting a probable 10 more that will pop up at relatively short notice.

 

[markis10]

I've just made it back to Hyatt Diamond this year. I'm concerned that Hyatt may follow Hilton (for nights/stays). Hyatt points don't count towards status.

It also hurts when properties change managers in areas that you need to stay, luckily Hyatts loss is my gain tonight as the Sanctuary Cove property changes to IHG, but it also means Hyatt exiting QLD.

 

[whatmeworry]

Is this possibly a response to a mooted change in the PC program?

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I'm still trying to understand the logic in the revised qual levels.

If we take the two extremes for diamond as an example (ignoring nights);

.....the qual/requal for base points has increased from a min. US$10k spend within the hotel to a new min. US$12k spend. An increase of US$2000 regardless of where in the world you stay.

.....the qual/requal for stays has increased from a min. of 28 to a new min. of 30. Given I've seen qualifying nights as low as US$60 (and possibly less), this equates to an increase of $120 which is very dependant upon where you stay.

So to qual/requal for diamond, by stays it can be less of a financial burden, in total, than the increase in base points cost alone! Or a difference of about US$10 000, which seems to favour the travelling broomstick salesman drifting around on a shoestring budget, over a high value family or executive.

I must admit, I cannot fathom why a business would place more emphasis on a low value, high maintenance guest (cheap but regular stayer) over a high value, lower maintenance guest (lots of spend over fewer stays). Surely the later would be preferable to look after then the former?

 

[simongr]

Maybe they are factoring in the cost of providing exec lounges to those premium guests given I expect you wont get an exec lounge if staying $60/night...

 

[Moopere]

Maybe they are factoring in the cost of providing exec lounges to those premium guests given I expect you wont get an exec lounge if staying $60/night...

Maybe. But you will get lounge access if you're the 'travelling salesman' referred to, staying heaps of nights in the cheapest rooms. Diamond guarantees lounge access I believe. So there is still something a bit off going on.

Personally, I struggle with the logic of making your loyalty scheme less attractive to loyal customers and more attractive to new customers (via comping or free status hand-out). Last year, I'd have been better off enjoying my gold HH but not really putting any effort into re-qualifying ... and in JAN, now, just picking up one of the comps from somewhere, be it the net, or a challenge, or via an airline or credit card.

One can only assume that they have crunched the numbers behind the scenes and the computer is telling them that existing 'loyal' customers are likely to remain loyal, with a relatively manageable attrition rate, whilst giving away 'free' or near free status pulls in droves of new blood, many of whom may remain with the brand.

I still reckon they'd be better off creating a new branch of 'status' for comp's and free hand-outs. Give benefits, sure, thats whats going to hook the new customers, but have a whole new elite level for actual real loyal customers who spend the money required to keep the hotels profitable - with even better bennies ... something that makes those customers feel valued and has real world value too.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Maybe they are factoring in the cost of providing exec lounges to those premium guests given I expect you wont get an exec lounge if staying $60/night...

Exec lounge access (if available) is a benefit to all diamonds no matter how earned and it doesn't automatically follow that an expensive property will have an exec. lounge (à la Parmelia) nor does it necessarily follow that any diamond will be granted access even if there is a lounge (thread on Istanbul suggested that), so I can't agree with your supposition and if true, that could be an exceptionally unjust way to treat elite guests. Rarely have I sat in a near empty lounge (except while waiting for a room and no F&B offering available), so the operating cost per head is not huge. Even the small lounges are quite busy and the costs are subsidised to a degree already by the paid in full exec. room guests who mostly wouldn't consume anywhere near the additional cost for the room and I'm quite sure there are plenty of mattress runners who partake in exec. lounges.

I remain mystified.

 

[turtlemichael]

..nor does it necessarily follow that any diamond will be granted access even if there is a lounge (thread on Istanbul suggested that), ...

swanning_it, can you refer me to the thread you are talking about on Istanbul?

 

[oz_mark]

.....the qual/requal for base points has increased from a min. US$10k spend within the hotel to a new min. US$12k spend. An increase of US$2000 regardless of where in the world you stay.

I understand base point requirements going up, as a sort of adjustment for inflation....

.....the qual/requal for stays has increased from a min. of 28 to a new min. of 30. Given I've seen qualifying nights as low as US$60 (and possibly less), this equates to an increase of $120 which is very dependant upon where you stay.

Not so understandable, although I guess they have crunched their numbers in coming to the new answer..

 

[simongr]

Maybe. But you will get lounge access if you're the 'travelling salesman' referred to, staying heaps of nights in the cheapest rooms. Diamond guarantees lounge access I believe. So there is still something a bit off going on.

Exec lounge access (if available) is a benefit to all diamonds no matter how earned and it doesn't automatically follow that an expensive property will have an exec. lounge (à la Parmelia) nor does it necessarily follow that any diamond will be granted access even if there is a lounge (thread on Istanbul suggested that), so I can't agree with your supposition and if true, that could be an exceptionally unjust way to treat elite guests. Rarely have I sat in a near empty lounge (except while waiting for a room and no F&B offering available), so the operating cost per head is not huge. Even the small lounges are quite busy and the costs are subsidised to a degree already by the paid in full exec. room guests who mostly wouldn't consume anywhere near the additional cost for the room and I'm quite sure there are plenty of mattress runners who partake in exec. lounges.

I remain mystified.

I wasn't implying that they would discriminate based on how you qualified - more on the fact that cheaper properties may not have Exec Lounges or even Exec lounges of a similar standard. I don't have experience of Hampton Inns so not sure if they cheapest properties have lounges.

I agree with both of you that the disparity in the increase seems strange.

 

[anat0l]

I'm still trying to understand the logic in the revised qual levels.

If we take the two extremes for diamond as an example (ignoring nights);

.....the qual/requal for base points has increased from a min. US$10k spend within the hotel to a new min. US$12k spend. An increase of US$2000 regardless of where in the world you stay.

.....the qual/requal for stays has increased from a min. of 28 to a new min. of 30. Given I've seen qualifying nights as low as US$60 (and possibly less), this equates to an increase of $120 which is very dependant upon where you stay.

So to qual/requal for diamond, by stays it can be less of a financial burden, in total, than the increase in base points cost alone! Or a difference of about US$10 000, which seems to favour the travelling broomstick salesman drifting around on a shoestring budget, over a high value family or executive.

I must admit, I cannot fathom why a business would place more emphasis on a low value, high maintenance guest (cheap but regular stayer) over a high value, lower maintenance guest (lots of spend over fewer stays). Surely the later would be preferable to look after then the former?

The way I see it all....it's a bit of a compromise between a frequent stayer and one who brings in a lot of money. (The USA-based carrier FFPs work in similar ways - compare, for example, getting AA Executive Platinum with one of 100k BIS miles, 100k EQPs or 100 segments).

There's a healthy argument out there whether someone who stays infrequently but hands over a lot of money should be more or less "loyal" compared to one who stays frequently, but not necessarily at the highest prices. The first kind of DYKWIA goes, "I spend so-and-so thousands of dollars at your properties every year," whilst the second kind of DYKWIA goes, "I stay at your properties for so-and-so times / nights every year".

Now the following puts aside the acumen of the savvy frequent traveler...

It's quite possible to not have 30 stays per year (just under 3 stays per month) and hand over $12,000 per year. Doing the math, qualifying on base points and not nights or stays means an average rate of just over $200 per night. I'm sure many suites around the world go for more than that, and I'm sure someone's handing over cash for those. Not saying it's common or otherwise, but you have to admit it's not completely far-fetched. Under the old qualification target of 100,000 base points ($10,000), the math becomes even less far-fetched.

Someone who qualifies with Hilton on stays alone (i.e. at the end of the year, the only reason they have requalified is they have their 30 stays) is probably watching their spending carefully. If they manage to do these all on $60 nights, then at $1,800 for Diamond that's a great score (mind you, finding rooms at $60/night at a Hilton property, especially with an Exec Lounge and without using any discounts, is likely difficult, and near impossible in this country!), but such is the quirks of the game. Moreover, there would have to be either great coincidence and/or great skill in getting all of those stays at the super cheap rate (and having them all at one night!). Reality says that it is more likely that such stays will be of varying lengths and likely a range of prices per night and stay, so not all members who achieve Diamond on stays alone are necessarily "profit cr*pshoots" for HHonors. By the time you take this all into account, many members who are qualifying by stays are likely to also be qualifying by nights.

With prices around inflating slightly and possibly to generally raise the bar (shift the goalposts) anyway, the adjustment as it stands probably accounts suitably for these different types of elite members.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

swanning_it, can you refer me to the thread you are talking about on Istanbul?

Yes. It's the same one you've replied to.

The bit I refered to about lounge access not automatically being granted to diamonds was in a post by serfty. Admitedly a Waldorf, but still relates to HH diamonds.

I have stayed at the Cavilieri - nice place.

Rome Cavalieri | Hilton HHonors® | Luxury Hotel Rome

There's a dedicated thread on Flyertalk with 1000's of posts. Here's from my first real involment in 2010: FlyerTalk Forums - Rome Cavalieri, The Waldorf Astoria Collection

With a four night stay it worth reading (note the Colleseo Lounge is no more.)

Diamond does not automatically get you Lounge access, you need to be on the "Imperial" levels for that.

There's a shuttle bus to town during the day - often popular ...

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I wasn't implying that they would discriminate based on how you qualified - more on the fact that cheaper properties may not have Exec Lounges or even Exec lounges of a similar standard.

It's not just the no-lounge hotels at cheap rates though. A quick flick through the Any Week-End 40% current sale shows a number of hotels in the $75-$80 range and even here in Oz a few of us made use of the BNE Hilton rate in the Thank You offer @ AU$88 and it has a lounge. I certainly appreciate your opinion, I just don't agree it plays a big part on the HH abacus.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

such is the quirks of the game.

I like this explanation a great deal!