International Flex Fare = Saver Conditions For Changes

[Fungus]

Hi AFFers,

I booked a Saver (K) for the forward leg but paid extra for Flex (H) on the return.

The fare conditions for the Flex showed no change fee, but I tried to alter it and was going to be charged $125, which was the fee listed for the Saver.

I rang the call centre and they advised that the most restrictive fare conditions apply to all segments.

Is this correct, as I have lodged a complaint to ask where this is specified, as if so, it is very misleading, and there is no benefit in ever mixing up classes of fares internationally?

Keen to hear from you experts…

 

[RichardMEL]

Yes, they were correct. Mos restrictive fare conditions apply to.whole ticket.

 

[Fungus]

Yes, they were correct. Mos restrictive fare conditions apply to.whole ticket.

Wow - it doesn’t seem reasonable you can pay extra to purchase different fare classes, yet will never get the benefits of the more flexible conditions.

Do you know where this is specified and has this always been the case?

Is it the same for domestic as well?

 

[Seat0B]

Wow - it doesn’t seem reasonable you can pay extra to purchase different fare classes, yet will never get the benefits of the more flexible conditions.

Do you know where this is specified and has this always been the case?

Is it the same for domestic as well?

It is the same for domestic. I have been caught by that before and now put different domestic fares onto separate bookings. But it isn’t really an option to do that for international.
I agree it’s a bit of a scam. I don’t see why they can’t just apply the relevant conditions to different legs. After all, the fares are in a different class and they can identify that.
I’m not entirely sure where it says that the most restrictive conditions apply - it’s somewhere in the fare T&C, which I have now learned to pay attention to. The hard way.

Edit:typo

 

[RichardMEL]

Wow - it doesn’t seem reasonable you can pay extra to purchase different fare classes, yet will never get the benefits of the more flexible conditions.

Do you know where this is specified and has this always been the case?

Yup. Here is one example

https://www.qantas.com/agencyconnect/au/en/policies/ticket/policies-and-procedures/international-ticket-reissue-policy.html#reissue-to-different-fare-products

Prior to departure, if two different fare families are combined on the same ticket, the most restrictive rule is applied to the type of reissue.

 

[RichardMEL]

By the way, this IS pointed out, albeit at the bottom of the fare rules for Flex when viewing fares on the booking page:

 

[Fungus]

By the way, this IS pointed out, albeit at the bottom of the fare rules for Flex when viewing fares on the booking page:

View attachment 373540

Yep - right at the very bottom if you scroll far enough. Thanks.

Still seems very unethical to take people’s extra money for the higher class segments, but I’m just gonna have to suck it up…

 

[opusman]

Yep - right at the very bottom if you scroll far enough. Thanks.

Still seems very unethical to take people’s extra money for the higher class segments, but I’m just gonna have to suck it up…

Well the point is the cheaper fares have sold out on those services. You always have the choice to book other services where cheaper fares are still available

 

[Fungus]

Well the point is the cheaper fares have sold out on those services. You always have the choice to book other services where cheaper fares are still available

Not in my case. Both Saver and Flex were available in both directions. I paid extra for more flexible conditions that were never actually available.

if Qantas wanted to do the right thing, they would prevent such a configuration from being purchased in the first place…

 

[fly2earth]

Hi AFFers,

I booked a Saver (K) for the forward leg but paid extra for Flex (H) on the return.

The fare conditions for the Flex showed no change fee, but I tried to alter it and was going to be charged $125, which was the fee listed for the Saver.

I rang the call centre and they advised that the most restrictive fare conditions apply to all segments.

Is this correct, as I have lodged a complaint to ask where this is specified, as if so, it is very misleading, and there is no benefit in ever mixing up classes of fares internationally?

Keen to hear from you experts…

Damn, Alan, back at it again!

 

[RichardMEL]

Not in my case. Both Saver and Flex were available in both directions. I paid extra for more flexible conditions that were never actually available.

if Qantas wanted to do the right thing, they would prevent such a configuration from being purchased in the first place…

You make a fair point and understandable, but consider a situation where one wants the cheapest price, but only Flex are available on a sector that is required. In that case you kay feel it is unfair if the other fare component was forced into Flex even if cheaper were available.

Frustrating for you, but the whole notion of discounted fares is being mire restrictive as tradeoff for price.

If the less restrictive fare rules applied, then this would be mercilessly be taken advantage of. In essence the airline (and btw this is common industry practice - not just QF) is saying if you want the full flex conditions then you need the same fare type. Add a discount and you pay accordingly.

If you had no need to change then tge fare savings would be just fine. The chance one takes with any non flex fare.

I understand in theory uf flight A is flex and flight B us Saver, and you only want to change A then why is B and its conditions even involved? When a change is made, as I understand it, the entire booking is tgen eeevaluated as a whole and this is where you become undone.

 

[encryptededdy]

I accept it's rare, but there are cases where you'd willingly buy-up a fare class. I've done it from Sale -> Saver for only one sector to allow for classic reward upgradability. You could also buy-up for more points or status credits.

I've made this mistake in the past when combining Classic Rewards and Revenue fares on the same ticket, but in that instance the Hobart call center was willing to waive the fee for me ("just this time"). Of course, that's sort-of moot as I can't seem to get Hobart on the phone anymore, even as a Platinum

I agree it would be nice if that one case of modifying just one sector would be allowed under the more flexible fare rules. For instance, Cathay Pacific allows this, so I assume it must be technically possible with today's GDS systems.


See how when I've selected flights in both "Essential" and "Flex", that their system makes it clear that I can change the Flex (TYO-SYD) leg for free, whereas changing the Essential (SYD-TYO) or round trip costs $200.

It also shows that cancellations and no-shows cost $550 (the cost of the essential fare, instead of the cheaper cost of Flex), as for those the most restrictive fare type applies understandably.

It'd be nice if Qantas made this change, but I won't hold my breath. I would be curious to know how many airlines work this way.

 

[encryptededdy]

I would be curious to know how many airlines work this way.

To answer my own question, since I was curious, I checked some airlines...

• Cathay Pacific: You can change your flex portion of the ticket per the flex rules, but cancellation/no-show are per most restrictive fare (see screenshot above)
• Qatar Airways: (re. changes) "Highest penalty of all fare components within the changed pricing units of the ticketed journey applies."*
  • Generally, I believe a return fare would be one "pricing unit". Only a side-trip or certain multi-cities would contain multiple pricing units. Feel free to correct me if this is wrong.
• Emirates: "If the outbound and inbound refund or change fees are different amounts and you wish to refund or change your trip, the higher fee will apply."
• JAL: Unsure. "In case differing outbound and inbound fares are combined, more stringent rules will apply to the reservation/ticketing, minimum stay, maximum stay and cancellation/refund."
  • It doesn't mention changes. I assume that means changes might be OK? But unclear.
• AirNZ: "Where the cancellation and change conditions differ between the outbound and return journeys, then the most restrictive conditions will apply for the whole journey."
  • Although in many markets / routes, their horizontal fare product applies which muddies this somewhat
• Singapore Airlines: You can change your flex portion of the ticket per the flex rules, but cancellation/no-show are per most restrictive fare (per dummy booking)
• American: N/A, since there's only "Main Cabin" and have a fixed change fee

Unfortunately, Qantas is in good company here (not a good thing, but it is what it is).

 

[CaptJCool]

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/book-a-trip/flights/fare-types.html#australia

the restrictive fare condition is included in the last tab under IMPORTANT INFORMATION

IN THE MODERN WORLD OF E-TICKETS, I'M SURE QF or any airline could honour the fare conditions on the particular sector but they choose NOT TO DO SO - reminds me of the recent fun fact they sent basically telling people to book early or bad luck...

 

[fly2earth]

To answer my own question, since I was curious, I checked some airlines...

• Cathay Pacific: You can change your flex portion of the ticket per the flex rules, but cancellation/no-show are per most restrictive fare (see screenshot above)
• Qatar Airways: (re. changes) "Highest penalty of all fare components within the changed pricing units of the ticketed journey applies."*
  • Generally, I believe a return fare would be one "pricing unit". Only a side-trip or certain multi-cities would contain multiple pricing units. Feel free to correct me if this is wrong.
• Emirates: "If the outbound and inbound refund or change fees are different amounts and you wish to refund or change your trip, the higher fee will apply."
• JAL: Unsure. "In case differing outbound and inbound fares are combined, more stringent rules will apply to the reservation/ticketing, minimum stay, maximum stay and cancellation/refund."
  • It doesn't mention changes. I assume that means changes might be OK? But unclear.
• AirNZ: "Where the cancellation and change conditions differ between the outbound and return journeys, then the most restrictive conditions will apply for the whole journey."
  • Although in many markets / routes, their horizontal fare product applies which muddies this somewhat
• Singapore Airlines: You can change your flex portion of the ticket per the flex rules, but cancellation/no-show are per most restrictive fare (per dummy booking)
• American: N/A, since there's only "Main Cabin" and have a fixed change fee

Unfortunately, Qantas is in good company here (not a good thing, but it is what it is).

Remember the time where SQ charges you a $400 for no show for being 2 mins late to check in even tho a granny was arguing with the counter and you don't want to intrude to seem rude? Pepperidge farm remembers

 

[gethsemene]

I mean, this would disappear as a problem if airlines stopped making one way international trips so much more expensive than returns...

 

[RooFlyer]

Damn, Alan, back at it again!

Still.

 

[dylarr]

I accept it's rare, but there are cases where you'd willingly buy-up a fare class. I've done it from Sale -> Saver for only one sector to allow for classic reward upgradability. You could also buy-up for more points or status credits.

This wouldn't work if you wanted flexibility however - if you made a change from say Sale/Saver to Flex, then the more restrictive rules around cancellations and changes will follow you around as you make additional changes.

 

[fly2earth]

Still.

Just got to order 15 extra flat whites in the J lounge to break even. Simples!

 

[RichardMEL]

There are many things to blame Joyce for, but this isn't one of them imo. As demonstrated already up thread, this is a fairly common industry thing, and has been for a long time.

Unless there's proof that AJ specifically added this restriction to QF's policies of course - which seems highly unlikely.