Is a first class award really worth it?

[rock86]

I don't think premium cabins are worth the asking price unless you are sitting on 5+ million points and accumulating points faster than you can spend them.

And I think using points on an economy redemption (especially QFF), apart from a few outlying situations is completely ludicrous.

Why would I want to pay nearly just as much in redemption fees and taxes on an economy redemption, when the majority of the time I can get paid flights for around the value?

I guess it's down to an individual to how you value your points and comfort.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

F is a very nice experience and I do it sometimes, but I try and make sure that the flight has significant "day time" with lunch/ dinner where you can also enjoy the excellent wine and alcahol on offer, and not just for breakfast. However mainly I book J.

When I do fly F I try and maximise the experience.

ie leaving SIN for Europe in F just before or after midnight to me is a waste and you are not really gaining much over having a flat bed J.


ie My next SQ F flight is all daylight MEL-SIN in F, then dinner in The Private room, sleep at hotel, breakfast in The Private Room and then all daylight to LHR in Suites.

• This allows us to really make the most of both F flights plus the The Private Room (as in being their when our body clocks want to eat, as opposed to midnight when the alcohol and food on offer goes to waste)

On the way back it all daylight in Suites from FRA, but unfortunately the MEL-SIN leg is overnight due to available connections.


With J I will also try and go in daylight, but if certain arrival/departure times (and possibly fastest connections) suits my trip better and means night flying I just make sure I have a flat bed.

 

[2infinity]

And I think using points on an economy redemption (especially QFF), apart from a few outlying situations is completely ludicrous.

Why would I want to pay nearly just as much in redemption fees and taxes on an economy redemption, when the majority of the time I can get paid flights for around the value?

Totally agree as I mentioned in my OP.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

And I think using points on an economy redemption (especially QFF), apart from a few outlying situations is completely ludicrous.

Why would I want to pay nearly just as much in redemption fees and taxes on an economy redemption, when the majority of the time I can get paid flights for around the value?

I guess it's down to an individual to how you value your points and comfort.

For non-QFF programs that do not charge fuel fines people (and % wise probably the bulk of FF members) can find value in Y redemptions.

I fly J or F, but many people do not have enough points, and/or may be taking non-long haul flights where they are content to be in Y.

ie MEL-CDG return is 106,000 points and $202 in total fees. Cheapest you can buy is say $1000 plus IF you can fly under that deal, and probably a lot more on SQ and/or if they want to fly during peak periods. So for someone who may not earn points at a rate where they (or if a family where say 4 or 5 of them) can hope to fly in J or F, but can afford say one long haul trip per year (or every second year) they may decide that the $800-1400 saving per person is good value for their circumstances.

But yes if that person is only a QFF member then their value options are greatly reduced.

 

[JohnK]

Sure. Probably no one needs a flat bed for a 12 hour trip. We will survive without it.

But it's called 'living life a little'. Some things are just enjoyable. Hard to price that.

I guess we will just disagree on 'living life a little'. I live my life on multiple holidays a year doing what I enjoy doing the most.

I've just come off a TG 787 in 11K. Boy was that a mistake. I was stuck in my seat for just over 8 hours. There were other seats available in the middle section but I didn't think it would be impossible to get out and stretch.

What an underwhelming experience.

 

[JohnK]

And I think using points on an economy redemption (especially QFF), apart from a few outlying situations is completely ludicrous.

Why would I want to pay nearly just as much in redemption fees and taxes on an economy redemption, when the majority of the time I can get paid flights for around the value?

I guess it's down to an individual to how you value your points and comfort.

I agree with you. Qantas fuel surcharges are ludicrous. I have found one sweet spot in Oneworld awards and that's where my points are going.

Let's put it this way. I can spend 360,000 QFF points for a return trip to Thailand in business for wife, daughter and myself or I can spend 420,000 QFF points on a Oneworld award for the 3 of us and take in a lot more. Yes I know the fuel surcharges aren't great but not many options left.

The day frequent flyer programs became frequent spender programs killed it for most except for those gaming the system. The points I earn from flying are pretty much useless.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I guess we will just disagree on 'living life a little'. I live my life on multiple holidays a year doing what I enjoy doing the most.

I've just come off a TG 787 in 11K. Boy was that a mistake. I was stuck in my seat for just over 8 hours. There were other seats available in the middle section but I didn't think it would be impossible to get out and stretch.

What an underwhelming experience.

Sorry to hear that - but also easily avoided with a minute or two's research

Frequency and comfort aren't mutually exclusive. With $800 fares on legacy carriers - including SQ - to Europe, everyone can have legroom, high numbers of staff, new planes, and varied menus and drink offerings. (Or for a little more 8 abreast economy class on JAL's 787s.) Everyone can enjoy a premium experience with $1500 return Y+ fares to a whole range of destinations in Europe and the USA. For a little more JAL's Y+ offers lounge access (no status required). And For $3500 there's multiple carriers from Australia offering business class to half a dozen cities in Europe. Some including private apex suites.

It doesn't have to be 9 abreast 787s, 10 abreast 777's, or QF with basic legroom and low cabin-crew-to-passenger ratios to secure status and have a lounge.

 

[JohnK]

Sorry to hear that - but also easily avoided with a minute or two's research

You make good points but there are people raving about these new business class products on 787's. I experienced it on RJ and didn't think too much of it. And from memory also experienced it on TG with my wife a few years back. Is this what Qantas has done with their 787 business class cabin?

They have crammed 24 seats into a tiny cabin. The seats are narrow although not uncomfortable. If the person in the aisle is sleeping for the duration of the flight then the person in the window seat cannot get out. Yes I should have done some research before hand but I did not think too much that this will be an issue. If someone with mobility issues ends up in this seat their flight will be ruined or as in my case the staff will offer to wake up the person in the aisle which I refused as I did not want to spoil their flight.

This thread was about whether points for first class awards are worth it. In my opinion just because an airline calls a particular product premium does not make that product premium. Just because a few people rave on about a particular product does not make that product premium. What I experienced on TG 787 business class is perhaps 20%-25% better than economy and even then that is marginal depending on what you value the most. It is certainly not worth double or even triple of what economy costs.

And again you bring up good points regarding point to point airfares but my wife mentioned something to me again the other day. She would love to see America as she calls it. For those that are points poor a Oneworld award would be a perfect opportunity to visit the USA, UK, Greece and then Thailand for a 140,000 QFF points + ~$1,500 in fuel surcharges. May even be able to get the fuel surcharges down if choosing the right carriers.

 

[TheRealTMA]

If Qantas wasn't so stingy with its premium international rewards, I'd go Qantas SYD-JNB-CPT, and that would no doubt be max J for 747 (there's no F in QF 747's I don't think anymore). This would be a Zone 7 redemption (6500 miles). But because Qantas doesn't seem to like rewarding its members, it's more likely to be Emirates BNE-DXB-CPT, a Zone 10 redemption (12600 miles). I'm giving serious consideration to F at least one way, but maybe both. Will probably never do F again and EK A380 F should be a good experience as well as their F lounge in Dubai. Emirates has just upgraded their B777's too I believe, which would be the DXB-CPT and return legs.

At this stage contemplating solo, but will possibly have a family member come.

Just do it!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You make good points but there are people raving about these new business class products on 787's. I experienced it on RJ and didn't think too much of it. And from memory also experienced it on TG with my wife a few years back. Is this what Qantas has done with their 787 business class cabin?

There are seven or eight different seat types out there. A couple more if you include some 'bespoke' ones like SQ has (that really no one else wants). Qantas is entirely different to TG - who haven't really pushed the boat out but gone for something very basic.

Some seat types are fantastic (reverse herringbone, apex). Others aren't. IIRC both RJ and TG have the same type of seat, and I wouldn't be racing for either of them. But take an apex suite (JAL, Oman, and couple of others) and you get a wide, enclosed private suite with 7 foot of bed space. QF may double up the points when jumping cabins, but not all airlines do. Lifemiles is a good example, just a small increment in points (AUD300 worth) moves you from the J to the F cabin on TG from Europe to BKK for example.

 

[rock86]

For non-QFF programs that do not charge fuel fines people (and % wise probably the bulk of FF members) can find value in Y redemptions.

Would it be the bulk % of all FF programs though, serious question. Also, don't a lot of the FF programs that charge no fuel fines for their own seat redemption's still charge fuel fines on partner airlines?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Would it be the bulk % of all FF programs though, serious question.

Indeed it would. FF is like money in the real world. A small % of people earn disproportionate amounts.


Not sure how many QFF Members there are now but QFF hit 10 million back in 2014. I would be betting that most of those members do not earn enough points per year to redeem even one J ticket long haul, let alone enough for a family.

I think that you would find most FF programs would be similar.

Also, don't a lot of the FF programs that charge no fuel fines for their own seat redemption's still charge fuel fines on partner airlines?

Only if the partner charges them. Also note that not all flights via QFF partners have excessive fuel fines either.

Plus there are other ways to skin a cat like buying Lifemiles or AA Miles etc. I earn enough points to not worry about it but many rather than go the poor value QFF redemption path will buy miles and use them in good value programs.

QFF is a big fish in a small pond and gets away with a poor value FF program due to this.

 

[daft009]

I'm quite loyal to KrisFlyer and to be honest, haven't seen the need to experience F or suites.

Just going J was a huge step up and I'm happy that my family & I can fly flat, and have points left over to even redeem a ticket here or there for the inlaws & my parents so they get to experience J.

 

[Pushka]

I'm quite loyal to KrisFlyer and to be honest, haven't seen the need to experience F or suites.

Just going J was a huge step up and I'm happy that my family & I can fly flat, and have points left over to even redeem a ticket here or there for the inlaws & my parents so they get to experience J.

Which means you’ve found the very comfortable sweet spot.

 

[boomy]

people raving about these new business class products on 787's.

Not sure who is raving about TG 787. If it’s new it doesn’t necessarily means good (see case SQ new and uncomfortable J). Yes it’s better than 747 or 772 recliners but not ideal for solo travelers and if you sit in the wrong side on overnight (A side flying to AUS) prepare for rude awakening with green lighten cabin at sunrise.
Next time flying TG J better aim for A350 via MEL.

Bringing it back on topic, one of the advantages of F when flying solo is no seatmate (although plenty J products offer similar luxury these days).

 

[JohnK]

Not sure who is raving about TG 787. If it’s new it doesn’t necessarily means good....

Any 787 in general. And yes you're right. New doesn't always mean better.

I'm not sure I will get to experience the business product on other carriers but my initial impression of the 787 is that it's a tiny cabin for 24 seats. Feels claustrophobic.

 

[drron]

I did enjoy the TG 787 J cabin but it was a daytime flight into BNE.
Didn't like the ANA 787 J cabin though.

 

[JohnK]

I did enjoy the TG 787 J cabin but it was a daytime flight into BNE.
Didn't like the ANA 787 J cabin though.

What's the main difference between the 2?

I think my flight would have been totally different had I chosen an aisle seat but for years I have loved sitting in window seats in business class. I also didn't take much notice of the dimming 787 windows as I couldn't see anything outside until the last hour or so as we landed in BNE just before noon.

 

[drron]

Possibly unbelievable but service and food was better on TG.
The ANA version just didn't suit my body shape and was hard-same sort of problem reported for the SQ A350 J seats.

 

[boomy]

ANA HND-SYD-HND is onvernight on both services so catering very limited adding to mediocare hard product in J most likely expensive will be underwhelming.