Is calling USA airports "dehumanishing" fair?

[Melburnian1]

As I use Amtrak when travelling within the USA, I've only ever used LAX to arrive or depart on multiple visits.

Moshe Safdie, the designer of SIN (Changi's) new Jewel development was quoted in what under Robyn Ironside has become a better 'The Australian' Fridays aviation page (the previous woman was hopeless, but Steve Creedy was very good) as saying "USA airports are the worst in the world" and "offer a dehumanisng experience."

He also said 'The USA doesn't have a single decent airport and travelling is a nightmare."

As one might expect, he then went on to praise Changi and what he says is "the culture of competition among Asian airports."

He then - in a comment many Australians will agree with - implied that "inconveniencing passengers (so as to sell more at retail outlets)" is part of airports' business model.

Like most AFFers, I'm yet to visit the Jewel area at SIN, and am unsure about whether a fake rainforest is a good idea, nice as it may look. If it promotes sensible environmental awareness, well and good, but if it leads to many passengers dawdling and holding up flights by not boarding in a timely way (as a '10 minute prior to scheduled departure requirement to be at the gate' doesn't means bags can be offloaded for a punctual departure if there's no shows), not so good.

At LAX, I've had experiences ranging from the horrendous (many years ago: being searched in an unpleasant way), as I was on my way to juddles' favourite area of South America, so they must have thought I was a drug runner, to excellent (my most recent visit, which was as an arriving OD passenger: immigration was quick and the officer most pleasant).

Is the comment about no USA airport being 'decent' fair?

 

[straitman]

I cannot really comment re 'NO' US airport but I have to say my experience so far has been fair at best and awful at worst. In my comments though I would also include border crossings as dreadful.

 

[Melburnian1]

... I would also include border crossings as dreadful.

In contrast, on the Amtrak train from Seattle to Vancouver, there were no problems because it occurs so seamlessly. We went past many road vehicles stopped though at the border.

 

[dajop]

but if it leads to many passengers dawdling and holding up flights by not boarding in a timely way (as a '10 minute prior to scheduled departure requirement to be at the gate' doesn't means bags can be offloaded for a punctual departure if there's no shows), not so good

The complex is landside so is not likely to lead to holding up flights. Even if it was airside, lounges and bars are much more likely to contribute to passengers holding up flights. Even the swimming pool, nap chairs and movie theatres are more likely to delay passengers.

Is the comment about no USA airport being 'decent' fair?

There are some decent airports in the US. I quite liked SAV -Savannah, Georgia airport. Also thought that San Diego airport was quite respectable. Haven’t been there, but PDX often gets highly rated.

 

[mrsterryn]

I dont consider airports to be required to be a shopping mall
It is just the commencement of a trip place
Being of the plus variety no clothes shopping for me
I rarely drink so no alcohol shopping
I go to a lounge prior to departure
Jewellery I am hard pushed to remember my wedding band

So seeing a movie that would be nice.
Going for a swim ...then I have wet cossies for the next leg of my journey
Changhai airport looks amazing and I would love to visit as a destination unto itself
On a side note looove Amtrak travelling. Have done quite a bit over the last 9 years or so. Just wonderful

 

[straitman]

In contrast, on the Amtrak train from Seattle to Vancouver, there were no problems because it occurs so seamlessly. We went past many road vehicles stopped though at the border.

Interesting as it is the border crossing(s) near Vancouver I was referring to.

Last year we flew into Vancouver and were picked up by our friends from Blaine/Birch Bay. At the border we queued up for a while and were eventually directed to go into the Immigration facility. All pretty easy but it was all down hill from there. We walked inside and were greeted by about a dozen grumpy looking officers at desks but it was a case of guess who is going to serve (grump at you next). We found someone who reluctantly waved us over for the inevitable 20 questions starting with do you have an ESTA? He then spent a while going through our quite full passports and quizzing our local friends. Eventually he stamped the passports and grumped $12 to us. After our friends enquired we were directed to the other end of the line to the cashier whose paid and left. When looking it up we found that the procedures are different for the border crossing points.

On leaving Birch Bay we again crossed into Canada to catch a flight out of Vancouver. No issues other than the hour in the line waiting. From Vancouver we were flying to JFK and should have had immigration pre-clearance at YVR but for what ever reason it wasn't happening on this day. We arrive into JFK at about 2230 and from there it all just got worse. Multiple a/c arriving and mega pax into an area that was way too small and a bunch of grumpy, nasty immigration officials. The fact we had been in the US only a few hours earlier was totally lost on them or they didn't care. Suffice to say we reached out hotel in NYC approaching 2am

 

[Melburnian1]

The complex is landside so is not likely to lead to holding up flights...

The Jewel complex hasn't been open long enough to be definitive, but while glad you are optimistic, that it's landside doesn't mean errant passengers won't overstay their welcome, or underestimate the time it takes to get to their assigned gate via SkyTrain and travelators.

 

[FlyboyAl]

LAX is my point of entry to the US, and for a while, I was arriving/departing every 6 weeks.
I've seen it change from an uncomfortable, slow moving mess into a more comfortable, slightly less slow moving arrivals hall.
The staff behind the counters are so hit and miss on whether you will get a smile or not.
Most could not work fast in an iron lung, and pity help you if you are in the queue when the operators change shift.
The kiosks are a laugh after you join the line to use them (no, you don't queue in the US) and then get your ticket to go to the next stupid line for the agent to stare at you, grump at you, then stamp your passport and wish you a (grumpy) happy stay.
I now take the attitude that I smile at them when I walk up, say good morning in a happy voice, and tell them it's great to be back in the greatest country in the world. That sometimes elicits a smile and slightly more positive interaction, but really, there is such a long way to go for LAX to become an enjoyable experience.
Leaving is usually a bit more enjoyable as you can have a (little) joke with the TSA staff who check the passport/boarding pass, and you know the lounge is just a (longish) walk to a drink.
I'm doing it again on Wednesday so will be interesting to see if its changed in the last 6 months.

 

[dajop]

The Jewel complex hasn't been open long enough to be definitive, but while glad you are optimistic, that it's landside doesn't mean errant passengers won't overstay their welcome, or underestimate the time it takes to get to their assigned gate via SkyTrain and travelators.

In my experience most people well and truly overestimate the time needed at Changi, to get through immigration and to reach gates. I stand by the idea that nap chairs and anything involving alcohol (lounges and bars) is far far more likely to delay passengers.

My big complaint about the Jewel is not about the flight experience, it’s about the traffic it is creating from local non travelling residents coming to the place to visit via car. It took me 15 minutes last night to get from the Taxi stand in terminal 2 to terminal 4 turnoff (usually takes 2-3 mins). Hopefully this will die down after a few more weeks but if not, major major stuff up by Changi - a good airport is one where you can get people away from the airport as quick as possible- if yet another trumped up Singapore clone shopping centre is preventing that because of crazy traffic then big fail.

 

[Melburnian1]

...The staff behind the counters are so hit and miss on whether you will get a smile or not.
Most could not work fast in an iron lung, and pity help you if you are in the queue when the operators change shift....

Worldwide, immigration staff are mostly unsmiling. And some seem notably slower than others, especially if one has the knack as I do of joining the slowest queue if multiple options exist.

 

[harvyk]

All airports have their good and bad points, and can have good and bad staff working for them.

Don't get me wrong, I love good architecture, and Asia certainly knows how to make an airport look pretty. But lookimg pretty is fairly low down on what I call good / bad for airports.

My list would go

1. Minimal queues - not just for the elites, but for everyone.

1a. Friendly staff - (this is on par with no queuing)

2. Comfortable seating - both in the lounge and in the main terminal.

3. Decent food options - either in lounges or out in the main terminal.

4. Sensible shopping options - basically if I forget something (eg phone charger) there is every chance the airport will have it.

5. Decent views of the planes - yes I like to see what's going on out side.

6. Pretty architecture

 

[OZDUCK]

I actually enjoyed our one border crossing into the U.S.A. Very friendly agent who cheerfully processed us while joking around.

However, it must be admitted that this was via a more unusual border post - just a window on a small jetty. We were on a 5 hour cruise, from Gananoque in Canada, among the 1,000 Islands of the St Lawrence River, and it stopped off at Boldt Castle which is an an American Island for about 2 hours. There were only about 7 of us among the hundred or so people on the cruise who were not Canadian/U.S citizens. So the border agent had it pretty easy - but we were photographed etc and had to pay our fee.

 

[drron]

My experiences at LHR are worse than any experience at an airport in the USA.

 

[RooFlyer]

My experiences at LHR are worse than any experience at an airport in the USA.

I'd say the same EXCEPT for MIA - the worst of the worst.

Reagan National Airport in Washington DC is a nice pleasant one, on my one and only use of it. See TR comments and pics: A RTW study tour, mostly on Star Alliance

LAX I don't have a problem with these days either (for the behemoth that it is).

 

[Himeno]

I've been through the following US airports at some point:
LAX(C), SFO(C), PDX, SEA, PHX, DEN, IAH, AUS(T), DFW(C), LAS, SLC(T), MSP, MDW(T), ORD, DTW, FLL(D), TPA(A), MCO, MIA(T), ATL, RDU, CAE, CLT(T), CLE(A), IAD(D), DCA, BWI, ANC, LGA(D), JFK(C), BOS(C), PHL
C = CBP
T = transit only
A = arrival only
D = departure only
Some airports I've only been through once, others dozens of times.

Some have been good, PDX, ANC and BWI among the top.
Others have been downright terrible, like PHX, LGA and IAD.
A few have changed quite a lot between visits (LAX, SFO, JFK, DFW, DCA) some not for the best.
LHR is just terrible. Ranks with the lowest batch of US airports.

None of the US airports are close to the Asian airports I've been through (though some in Asia like TSA, PVG and PEK come close).
Other Asian airports (KUL, SIN, HKG, HND, NRT, KIX, ITM, GMP, ICN, TPE) are vastly better then any airport I've been through in the US, Europe or Australia.

 

[Quickstatus]

I liked MSP for its takeout delivery to you at the boarding gate.

US major airports are high volume, transactional places which are just functional and mostly devoid of the cultural. They were never designed as a destination in itself but just a means to transit to/from an airplane.

The airline industry within the US is in reality all about getting from A to B as efficiently and cost effectively as possible. Airports are not places to “smell the flowers”. To say that US airports are dehumanising misses this point - they are after all just a very big bus stop or train station.

Changi is just a very big airline hub defined by schedules that is out of the control of the traveller and so passengers have little discretionary time to spend there. One could say that what time they have in such places could be made much more pleasant - and I suppose Changi tries to do that. But a cultural destination it is not and unfortunately the hype is going to turn it into a dehumanising experience in itself - just like the experience now at the top pool deck of Marina Bay Sands.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

I've found ATL to be pleasant considering its enormity. Really good to stretch your legs by walking between concourses alongside the underground train. Yes the long concourses can feel like a bus station but it's not that bad really with *lots* of food outlets if you're that way inclined. AA lounge has friendly staff.

LAX has improved.

CLT is a tale of two halves. Use the B concourse during a busy period and it could turn you off air travel for life. But the 'hub' area around C concourse where the new AA (ex-US) lounge is located is much better.

Hawaiian islands including HNL domestic terminal, well, if you like concrete brutalism then they are for you.

Overall it's like travelling long haul whY.... if you go in not expecting much you may be pleasantly surprised (but not always).

 

[trooper]

And OTHER Asian airports make you long for the TBIT BEFORE the refurb...like MNL!!! Bloody awful experience there from start to finish. Transiting in China...well.... And transiting BOM? We had 3 HOURS between flights...we weren't even ENTERING the country...and the bureaucratic BS was piled so high we got ten minutes in the lounge before the next flight (CMB-BOM-JNB) I'll take just about any US airport over those....

 

[Melburnian1]

And OTHER Asian airports make you long for the TBIT BEFORE the refurb...like MNL!!! Bloody awful experience there from start to finish... I'll take just about any US airport over those....

MNL has four terminals so I don't know which one you were commenting on. T3 is the most recently built, used by 5J, SQ, QF, EK, CX and others, plus a few PR domestic flights. T1 has been refurbished (used by some PR international and domestic flights plus quite a few other carriers), and apparently (haven't been there for a while) there are some works at T2 (which needs attention, and is the main PR terminal).

For arriving passengers, MNL often has speedier immigration and always speedier customs than Australian airports. Its baggage carousels can see bags arriving quicker than in MEL, so I don't always understand the bad rap some give it. I had a friend ring me today who said without me introducing the subject 'you know Melbourne is a cough airport don't you?...' Australian airports can fail on key metrics.

Further south, CEB has a new quite attractive international terminal while its domestic one is being improved. It's becoming more popular every year.

 

[RooFlyer]

SEA (Seattle-Tacoma) isn't too bad, either, although I've only used the main terminal and not the satellites.