Is Citi Plus still the best option for overseas cash?

[bernardblack]

Is Citi Plus still the best option for overseas cash? Obviously I haven't done a lot of international travel since 2019.

If I have to open some other account it might be time to get started, since we depart in five weeks.

(I'm set for FX-fee-free purchases, with a US Amex Gold backed with a Coles Rewards Mastercard and a Bundll account which charges to my Dragon Visa.)

 

[MELso]

Looks like Citi's transaction accounts will be transitioned across to a NAB product by the end of the year, with everything wrapped up by the end of next year. See page 47 here.

 

[levelnine]

Looks like Citi's transaction accounts will be transitioned across to a NAB product by the end of the year, with everything wrapped up by the end of next year. See page 47 here.

I presume that means end of Citi-specific products? That will be a huge loss for diversity of sign-up bonuses/products available in the Australian market, even if white label products continue.

 

[oz_mark]

I presume that means end of Citi-specific products? That will be a huge loss for diversity of sign-up bonuses/products available in the Australian market, even if white label products continue.

It's always been the plan to discontinue the Citi brand. Nab and Citi came to an agreement that allowed NAB to use the name for about 3 years while they moved everyone off the Citi platform. It's why some of the products have been shut down - there was no equivalent product on the NAB platform.

 

[Pete98765432]

Yes, that's my understanding as well. There's a table on page 22 that outlines what exchange rate will be used and in what circumstances. The Westpac rate only gets used if you're converting a balance held on the card to a balance held on the card in a different currency. If you only have AUD on the card and then withdraw a different currency at an ATM, it'll use the Mastercard rate.

I’ve done some testing of the Westpac Global card. I only have AU$ loaded on the card so according to the PDS the Mastercard rate should be used for conversion.

I withdrew SG$20 at a partner ATM at Changi airport. The exchange rate was 1.1694515. The Mastercard rate for the same day was 1.1310093.

Yesterday I made 2 identical transactions of £3.15 at a Waitrose supermarket in London, one with the Westpac Global card and the other with my Citibank debit card. The Westpac card converted to $6.12 and Citibank to $5.94.

In both cases, the difference is 3%. This seems contrary to the PDS which states there is nil currency conversion fee.

 

[SeaWolf]

Yesterday I made 2 identical transactions of £3.15 at a Waitrose supermarket in London, one with the Westpac Global card and the other with my Citibank debit card. The Westpac card converted to $6.12 and Citibank to $5.94.

Yeah, that doesn't sound great. There's clearly something here that we're missing, some sort of hidden fee.

 

[SYD]

I’ve done some testing of the Westpac Global card. I only have AU$ loaded on the card so according to the PDS the Mastercard rate should be used for conversion.

I withdrew SG$20 at a partner ATM at Changi airport. The exchange rate was 1.1694515. The Mastercard rate for the same day was 1.1310093.

Do you recall if you were offered an account type to withdraw from and which you selected?

Yesterday I made 2 identical transactions of £3.15 at a Waitrose supermarket in London, one with the Westpac Global card and the other with my Citibank debit card. The Westpac card converted to $6.12 and Citibank to $5.94.

This is less of an issue with existing cards (ING, UBank and Citi) will still not charge 3% on VISA debit transactions nor 28° MC etc

In both cases, the difference is 3%. This seems contrary to the PDS which states there is nil currency conversion fee.

Probably worth raising with WBC?

 

[Pete98765432]

Do you recall if you were offered an account type to withdraw from and which you selected?

I’m not certain, but think I was and I selected credit.

This is less of an issue with existing cards (ING, UBank and Citi) will still not charge 3% on VISA debit transactions nor 28° MC etc

Agree. I have other cards for purchase transactions. I’m more interested in a replacement for ING for foreign ATM withdrawals. This isn’t really an issue in the counties I’m visiting this trip as they generally don’t have ATM operator fees.

Probably worth raising with WBC?

Yes. Considering that.

 

[Pete98765432]

Yeah, that doesn't sound great. There's clearly something here that we're missing, some sort of hidden fee.

I’m wondering whether they only use the MasterCard rate when converting from one non-AU currency to another non-AU currency. They would already have taken their slice when the foreign currency was loaded.

The PDS doesn’t say this, so I may lodge a complaint when I return to Australia.

 

[SYD]

I’m wondering whether they only use the MasterCard rate when converting from one non-AU currency to another non-AU currency. They would already have taken their slice when the foreign currency was loaded.

The PDS doesn’t say this, so I may lodge a complaint when I return to Australia.

SYD+1 has read and re-read the PDS for the Westpac Global Card and it does seem pretty clear that if you use it in an ATM OS to access load AUD, you're not supposed to be charged 3%, plus no ATM fee if it's a partner ATM.

Can other users confirm that's how it works in practice (normally)?

We're about to setup Westpac accounts and the WGC this week in anticipation of the ING changes to cover places that have ATMs fees. Not much point however if it's no better (or possibly worse than our existing ING and UBank cards)?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

In both cases, the difference is 3%. This seems contrary to the PDS which states there is nil currency conversion fee.

Ahhh. there can be some clever ‘spin’ in the marketing here.

‘No currency conversion fee’ could mean as little as ‘we don’t charge you an extra fee’ ON TOP OF the bad exchange rate we offer.

The applicable exchange rate could be woefully bad, but at least they don’t charge a separate fee on top… like many currency conversion shops do (for example you see the exchange rate they offer and then there’s an extra fee as well)

 

[SYD]

Ahhh. there can be some clever ‘spin’ in the marketing here.

‘No currency conversion fee’ could mean as little as ‘we don’t charge you an extra fee’ ON TOP OF the bad exchange rate we offer.

The applicable exchange rate could be woefully bad, but at least they don’t charge a separate fee on top… like many currency conversion shops do (for example you see the exchange rate they offer and then there’s an extra fee as well)

Yet but the PDS states that you don't get charged the 3% accessing AUD eg if you transfer A$1000 over to the card and DO NOT convert it to a foreign currency, you should be able to access a partner ATM OS and not pay an ATM fee nor the Westpac 3% International TX fee. It's supposed to be processed at the MC rate.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yet but the PDS states that you don't get charged the 3% accessing AUD eg if you transfer A$1000 over to the card and DO NOT convert it to a foreign currency, you should be able to access a partner ATM OS and not pay an ATM fee nor the Westpac 3% International TX fee. It's supposed to be processed at the MC rate.

Does it guarantee MC rates? if it does they need to do some explaining!

 

[SYD]

Does it guarantee MC rates?

That's what the PDS says. A regular WBC debit card is however subject to the 3% fee.

Accessing money overseas

Ways to save on fees with our Global ATM network, plus foreign currency, traveller's cheques and credit card usage tips.

www.westpac.com.au

if it does they need to do some explaining!

Yes

 

[MEL_Traveller]

That's what the PDS says. A regular WBC debit card is however subject to the 3% fee.

Accessing money overseas

Ways to save on fees with our Global ATM network, plus foreign currency, traveller's cheques and credit card usage tips.

www.westpac.com.au

Yes

I can’t find the PDS… i know it says you avoid the 3% fee… but other parts of the page say they have fixed conversion rates, not MC rates for example (like money wallet).

If the MC rate is .67 to the USD, Wpax could set it at .63, but still not be charging a 3% fee. Other products can set it at .63 *and* charge 3%.

 

[SeaWolf]

I can’t find the PDS… i know it says you avoid the 3% fee… but other parts of the page say they have fixed conversion rates, not MC rates for example (like money wallet).

If the MC rate is .67 to the USD, Wpax could set it at .63, but still not be charging a 3% fee. Other products can set it at .63 *and* charge 3%.

Here's the PDS

https://www.westpac.com.au/content/dam/public/wbc/documents/pdf/pb/worldwide-wallet-PDS.pdf

Its page 22 that you're interested in, which lays out which exchange rate (Mastercard or Westpac) will be used in which circumstances.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Here's the PDS

https://www.westpac.com.au/content/dam/public/wbc/documents/pdf/pb/worldwide-wallet-PDS.pdf

Its page 22 that you're interested in, which lays out which exchange rate (Mastercard or Westpac) will be used in which circumstances.

But then it says this…

• Different currency rates will be applied depending on whether you’re buying or selling a currency. This means that the money you exchange may be subject to differing exchange rates depending on whether you’re buying or selling the currency. For example, you may convert AUD 100 into USD and receive USD 64. However, if you were to convert USD 64 to AUD at that same time, you may receive less than AUD 100.

Which seems to suggest they are using the MC rate, but applying their own spread in top of that?

If they were using MC’s rate and two transactions were simultaneous, it should be the same each way?

 

[SYD]

But then it says this…

• Different currency rates will be applied depending on whether you’re buying or selling a currency. This means that the money you exchange may be subject to differing exchange rates depending on whether you’re buying or selling the currency. For example, you may convert AUD 100 into USD and receive USD 64. However, if you were to convert USD 64 to AUD at that same time, you may receive less than AUD 100.

Which seems to suggest they are using the MC rate, but applying their own spread in top of that?

If they were using MC’s rate and two transactions were simultaneous, it should be the same each way?

Yes, they probably have hidden conversions in there if you wish to load up non AUD amounts but coming back to the topic, the point is that you can leave AUD on the card and withdraw from a "Global alliance ATM" for free. The question is does the conversion of your AUD to foreign cash received subject to a 3% fee then or just at the MC rate at the time? The PDS above suggest there's no 3% fee.

If they do add 3%, then I'm better off using my existing ING or UBank card in an ATM that charges US$3.00 and take out more than $100.

The *only* attraction to me of this Westpac card is the potential to avoid local ATM fees and other Int conversion fees. My 28 degrees and ING will still allow me to do day to day purchases fee free.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes, they probably have hidden conversions in there if you wish to load up non AUD amounts but coming back to the topic, the point is that you can leave AUD on the card and withdraw from a "Global alliance ATM" for free. The question is does the conversion of your AUD to foreign cash received subject to a 3% fee then or just at the MC rate at the time? The PDS above suggest there's no 3% fee.

If they do add 3%, then I'm better off using my existing ING or UBank card in an ATM that charges US$3.00 and take out more than $100.

The *only* attraction to me of this Westpac card is the potential to avoid local ATM fees and other Int conversion fees. My 28 degrees and ING will still allow me to do day to day purchases fee free.

It might be that they ‘use’ the MC rate, but add their spread. Which might be 3%!

 

[oz_mark]

My guess is that they have set the fees up incorrectly. Worth taking it up with Westpac to get the story.

 

[SYD]

It might be that they ‘use’ the MC rate, but add their spread. Which might be 3%!

They differentiate between a Westpac rate (subject to 3% and any other spread) and the MC rate.

But still interested in actual first hand experence of users rather than us speculating.