Is Frequent Flyer Miles ownership moving from employees, to employers?

[JohnK]

OK, so if you truly have the power to not travel out of hours, then the employer will lose ... and yes, the point can't be used on all flights at all times .. not sure what more I can add.

Stuart who travels in their own time, with no FF miles, and a piddly little salary? I know some people choose to do same day travel but why would I wake up at 4:00am to get to MEL by 8:00am so I can have an all day meeting starting at 9:00am and getting back home to SYD at 10:00pm and then not earn FF miles on top? That is an 18 hour day and I get paid to work 7:30 hours a day!

Why would I give them more of my time. The last 2 years we have a 3.25% increase in salary and a 2% increase in salary. That does not even cover CPI!

You really need to be desperate for a job to let the company control you in that way.

And I am still trying to work out what you are trying to achieve with this thread? I know it is some sort of data mining, market research but it sounds like you are trying to convert people to your way of thinking that the world is changing overnight and your thoughts are going to be like this for everyone.

Far from it Stuart. I have noticed that many companies have cut back unnecessary travel. Others have cut down premium travel so instead of First class it is now business class and instead of business class it is now economy. Not one wants to take ownership of miles.

If this is a thread for discussion purposes only why are you trying to convince people that your outlook of the future is the only way? The discussion keeps going around in circles and you keep coming to the point of "No FF miles"! Why are so interested in discussing "No FF miles" when everyone has given you their perspectove? Sales pitch perhaps? You are pitching to the wrong people....

 

[awilcockson]

You are pitching to the wrong people....

You've certainly got that right!

 

[RB]

You've certainly got that right!

To the contary, I believe he has been a very succesful fisherman & has even had to bait the hook.

 

[ozmille]

I loved the comment Stuart made on FT saying that this had rapidly become the most read thread on AFF.
What do you expect when going to a FF forum and telling people they have to give up their miles???

 

[beardoc]

You are pitching to the wrong people....

And that's essentially where the heat comes from in this thread. This is a forum where people are in pursuit of benefits of frequent flying (free flights, or status perks), and are looking to maximise that. The OP is essentially posting something which is an anaethema to that - it would result in reduced perks and reduced free flights. The result was always going to be taken badly here. I think it's courteous that some people have been friendly and pleasant, but you can't fault people who haven't been, either. This was always going to be a "cat amongst the pigeons" topic.

 

[JohnK]

To the contary, I believe he has been a very succesful fisherman & has even had to bait the hook.

Are you saying that he has been winding us up? I would agree with that statement.

I do not believe for one second that Stuart has been able to get anything to help him in his get rich quick scheme. To the contrary. He has realised that Australia was not the pushover that he was hoping it would be.

Keep trying Stuart. You will find a steady income stream somewhere but I can tell you it is not by convincing companies to take ownership of FF miles....

 

[nlagalle]

I loved the comment Stuart made on FT saying that this had rapidly become the most read thread on AFF.
What do you expect when going to a FF forum and telling people they have to give up their miles???

i could name several other threads that were more poular. ATA removal and the infamous Amex promo come to mind...

 

[BadgerBoi]

As you note, the OP is not in Australia (nor USA, at least at the time of starting this thread ). So their comments should not be considered to be specific to Australian companies, .

He's posting in *australian*frequentflyer.com.au - natural that his comments should be specific to Australia...unless he's a shill or a troll, of course (nah, that wouldn't hbe the case, would it now?)

 

[maureeng]

The day the company says that to me is the day I stop flying for them..

I agree. We give up time with our families and our own leisure time.

Maureeng

 

[anat0l]

This may be the most hated topic so far on AFF, but I think unintentionally - discounting the fact that it is a hated topic and an anathema to the site - has generated a long and deep discussion.

It even headed up the latest e-newsletter for the site.


In short, this thread has achieved its objectives. The rest is mostly wind-up (also successful) and straw man arguments.

 

[medhead]

And that's essentially where the heat comes from in this thread.

This may be the most hated topic so far on AFF,

Admittedly I am a poor judge. But has there been heat in this thread? :?: I know that Stuart has said there was heat. But for myself, I've not taken anything here personally. I've certainly been very strident in my replies, but it has been an intellectual response without any emotional feeling, no heat or hatred at all.

I'm sure Stuart is a good guy, albeit misguided, with who I could easily have a beer. I would also wish him the best of luck with his activities, everyone deserves success and happiness in their life. :-|

 

[simongr]

Admittedly I am a poor judge. But has there been heat in this thread? :?:

I think this thread has been a blowtorch on the OP (he has unsurprisingly not responded in kind given he doesnt want to actively antagonise a knowledge base that he can use).

I also think the off topic thread might be a tad more viewed

 

[Champo]

I would argue that having paid for my membership as a frequent flyer any points accrued to my membership are mine. Another argument I would advance to my empoyer if it became an issue is "how do you separate my points accrued by personally paid travel and the empoyer paid travel?" should I decide to travel personally. Another area of confusion may well be "are there sufficient points available to book an any seat flight using employer accrued points and if not, the employer booking dips into your personal points":

 

[Fantic125]

And there I was,

thinking that 'stuartbb' = 'admin', just to deflect the focus on 'MilePoint'...

 

[stuartbb]

Hi all,
I see we made the lead story of the new edition of Frequent Flyer Gazette, just published. Seems the generic subject of this thread is interesting to a wider audience, albeit controversial.

Some of the posts overnight were personal and off topic, and I see no good would come of answering them, one by one.

I was particularly pleased to read the recession hasn't hit Australia.

I have noticed that many companies have cut back unnecessary travel. Others have cut down premium travel so instead of First class it is now business class and instead of business class it is now economy. Not one wants to take ownership of miles.

Exactly! So if we're agreed that companies are making cuts via traditional ways, as per your posting, then going back to the question I posted, ask yourself if companies will start to look for new areas to generate savings, and if so, could one of those areas be companies instead of employees owning miles?

And yes, having posted to this forum, I of course expected a lot of discussion from the pure Australian perspective, so you can answer the above question with "it won't happen here". Fine. That's valuable input. But because, by definition, you are all travellers, I am sure many of you will also have a more global perspective, so would have opinion for elsewhere in the world, where recession is far more prominent..

I would argue that having paid for my membership as a frequent flyer any points accrued to my membership are mine. Another argument I would advance to my empoyer if it became an issue is "how do you separate my points accrued by personally paid travel and the empoyer paid travel?" should I decide to travel personally. Another area of confusion may well be "are there sufficient points available to book an any seat flight using employer accrued points and if not, the employer booking dips into your personal points":

Great points. I think it's safe to say, many of you are involved in managing or participating in complex projects. Lots of issues arise, and you and your teams solve them, and eventually deliver projects. So, all the questions you asked above are operational ones. Please assume they can all be solved. I don't want to discuss how they can be solved, as you'll accuse me of all sorts of things, even though I'd be answering your question. As you know, some companies are already owning the points/miles to save on travel, so you can assume they figured out how to solve these matters, too. So, try to rise above the operational detail and ask yourself, if there are no operational barriers, will FF points/miles ownership move from employee to employer? And remember, this doesn't mean a 100% shift! Maybe it's a 1% change, maybe 0% ... that's the discussion!

 

[samh004]

Hi all,
I see we made the lead story of the new edition of Frequent Flyer Gazette, just published. Seems the generic subject of this thread is interesting to a wider audience, albeit controversial.

To be fair I also had a story in it with a TR about a penguin called Penny in Europe. The most interesting things generally get a closer look.

And there I was,

thinking that 'stuartbb' = 'admin', just to deflect the focus on 'MilePoint'...

Hahaha.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Hi all,
I see we made the lead story of the new edition of Frequent Flyer Gazette, just published. Seems the generic subject of this thread is interesting to a wider audience,

LOL...


The Gazette is AFF = no wider audience.

 

[JohnK]

Exactly! So if we're agreed that companies are making cuts via traditional ways, as per your posting, then going back to the question I posted, ask yourself if companies will start to look for new areas to generate savings, and if so, could one of those areas be companies instead of employees owning miles?

Cut back travel? Yes? Companies owning miles? No.

If you are so smart how does the company get to own the miles and then use them? It is my FF account with miles accrued from credit cards, hotel stays, Woolworths and personal travel. I would never give the company access to my FF account.

Anyway this theoretical question keeps going around and around circles and regardless of what people have posted you keep going back to your original question. Very persistent salesman....

 

[medhead]

To answer your question: No

Aside: I'm a bad judge of these things. Given the little I know of you I thought it was appropriate to question your motives. Sorry if that was personal.

 

[admin]

It's now time to close this thread. We seem to be going around in circles. If anyone has new insights to add please contact myself or any of the moderators and we can re-open it.