Japan Airlines plane in flames at Tokyo's Haneda airport

[tomlee1986]

NHK has a live web cam on the plane.

Need to click on the photo

www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/realtime

Only part of the wing survived this inferno!this makes this evacuation more successful that ever

 

[jb747]

JB.. Is there any research/reports on airport ground lighting and associated accidents and incidents ? (taxiways et al).
I always look about on touchdown/taxi and I was very surprised at the complexity of lights on a recent landing in Hnd.
OK i am just a bunny in the tube.. but at the same level as the folks up front and it all looked like a fairground to me...

I'm sure there's lots of research, and many things have improved over the years. One of the most useful was in the coughpit itself, where the nav displays can zoom out to show you the taxiway data, and your position. The 380 had that. The easiest system was one that I first saw in Singapore, where aircraft would be cleared to 'taxi on the green' and you taxied along a lit green path. If the lights went out, you stopped. But, this was being manually controlled, and of course, only really worked at night. I recall that you had to be very careful at Narita, as it was just a sea of lights.

This is what was left of the EK777 about 18 hours after the event. The fuselage is burnt out, but it's a little more intact. But, it arrived on the ground in one piece, and I don't think the 350 had that luxury. To be honest, I don't care how much is left, as long as it gave everybody a few minutes to vacate.

One thing that will be interesting to hear, is just how much of the aircraft systems survived the impact. The electronics bays are in the lower fuselage, and if they're destroyed I doubt that the pilots would have any further control of anything. That includes any flight controls, brakes, and very likely the engine control valves. Probably also the fire system. It would explain why the right engine continued to run (though in itself that's almost impressive).

 

[DC3]

… should not have treated a no news website…

 

[jb747]

NHK has a live web cam on the plane.

Need to click on the photo

www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/realtime

Hard to believe, but it looks like some of those tyres are still inflated.

The impact mark on the front of the engine is very interesting. There is similar on the inside of the starboard engine. My guess is that these are from the wing on the Dash. It fits with the relative span.

 

[antycbr]

. I recall that you had to be very careful at Narita, as it was just a sea of lights.

it’s very noticeable when you turn on to a CAT III runway to see how bright it is compared to our relatively third world infrastructure.

 

[MelMel]

Hard to believe, but it looks like some of those tyres are still inflated.

The impact mark on the front of the engine is very interesting. There is similar on the inside of the starboard engine. My guess is that these are from the wing on the Dash. It fits with the relative span.

It certainly looks that way…..

 

[jb747]

Extended cut from the web cam. Shows the 350 on approach prior to the impact. It's very hard to make out, but it appears that the 350 was in the process of derotation after landing when the impact happened.

 

[Hvr]

When a plane is being diverted to another airport because of a situation as occurred last night; what does the Captain tell the pax?

 

[drron]

Extended cut from the web cam. Shows the 350 on approach prior to the impact. It's very hard to make out, but it appears that the 350 was in the process of derotation after landing when the impact happened.

That video makes it even more remarkable that all on the A350 survived.
The 12 Australians were likely from the ski resorts in Hokkaido and possibly connecting to a flight back to Australia. Most likely had their passports in their carry on bags. The Embassy has some work to do as well.

 

[antycbr]

Reports elsewhere that some of the taxiway stop bar lights (red lights like you see on SYD runways) were unserviceable - particularly C taxiways.

 

[ben95]

JB.. Is there any research/reports on airport ground lighting and associated accidents and incidents ?

There are many research and investigations from runway incursion incidents that have led to where we are today. I can't even count how many ACI episodes I've watched that involved runway incursions.

But there's always the human factor that needs to be taken into consideration with these kind of incidents. You could have the best equipment in the coughpit and the best lighting in an airfield but if you have overloaded, fatigued or just incompetent pilots at the coughpit then it's totally different story.

 

[jb747]

Looking at the Airbus diagrams for the pilot eye height on approach, the A350-900 has a figure of 38 feet. That's the height of the pilots' eyes above the main gear with the aircraft in the approach attitude (about 3º nose up). It's actually a couple of feet higher than the A380. As the aircraft is derotated they eye height would drop to a bit over 20 feet. The height of the tail of a Q300 is just a little less than 25 feet.

The upshot of that is that if it ran into the Dash before the nose gear was down, the impact would be below the pilots line of sight, and looking at the damage to the nose of the 350 that appears to be how it's happened.

 

[MARTINE]

Which is why we always pay attention at safety briefings, identify the exits which may be behind you - incredible outcome — this could have been a disaster of Teneriffe proportions

 

[dylarr]

That video makes it even more remarkable that all on the A350 survived.

Indeed.

Watching that footage, the fact that there is one survivor from the Dash is just incredible as well.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Reports elsewhere that some of the taxiway stop bar lights (red lights like you see on SYD runways) were unserviceable - particularly C taxiways.

Interesting if so. I generally have an issue with technological innovations that when in a failed state, are not obvious.

The problem is that we as humans tend to rely on the technology, even new ones, very quickly. We often develop assumptions that the technology works.

I may be completely wrong here so please let me know if so. However, take the stop lights before active runways - now of course, the absolute default is you do not proceed anywhere on an airfield without permission from ATC, and that the stop lights are an additional safeguard against incursion. It sounds great, but when you have this technology for a while it is inevitable that someone will begin to rely on it for whatever reason. And since there is no let's say "healthy state" indicator (as far as I am aware) apart from perhaps a written NOTAM that tells crew the lights are inoperative. You don't see red, the default to go is off, you go.

Is it unprofessional? Obviously. While the technology does enhance safety, it also shouldn't create a potentially more dangerous scenario.

 

[antycbr]

Interesting if so. I generally have an issue with technological innovations that when in a failed state, are not obvious.

The problem is that we as humans tend to rely on the technology, even new ones, very quickly. We often develop assumptions that the technology works.

I may be completely wrong here so please let me know if so. However, take the stop lights before active runways - now of course, the absolute default is you do not proceed anywhere on an airfield without permission from ATC, and that the stop lights are an additional safeguard against incursion. It sounds great, but when you have this technology for a while it is inevitable that someone will begin to rely on it for whatever reason. And since there is no let's say "healthy state" indicator (as far as I am aware) apart from perhaps a written NOTAM that tells crew the lights are inoperative. You don't see red, the default to go is off, you go.

Is it unprofessional? Obviously. While the technology does enhance safety, it also shouldn't create a potentially more dangerous scenario.

Yes, lots of holes line up and you have what happened last night.

 

[Quickstatus]

As @Seat0B says, this is very common Japanese news reporting where they're not supposed to say deceased until a doctor/coroner pronounces them dead.

No of a bad idea for most journalism - the news should generally not get ahead of the facts

 

[CaptJCool]

boom gates on the taxi way?

Taxi Way - Airport gate by Frontier Pitts Ltd | AeroExpo

Tracked Security “Taxi Way” Sliding Gates Security Tracked Sliding Gates are designed to run on a track installed in the roadway and are able to secure wide apertures. The trackwork is cast into the concrete foundation which is poured in two stages. The track is bolted down to the first pour con...

www.aeroexpo.online

after a fatality at salisbury in adelaide where a bus got stuck across the railway line, they installed red lights at level crossings

whether this could avoid a future scenario, someone is ready to instal 'em

 

[JohnM]

 

[Sprucegoose]

after a fatality at salisbury in adelaide where a bus got stuck across the railway line, they installed red lights at level crossings

It often takes a fatality or similar calamity to drive change/improvements.

I have seen red lights on taxiways previously given; as mentioned by JB, airports and taxiways can be spatially confusing environments.

How do you manage the human condition? Red lights still don't stop cars, and we know human factors are the most challenging to manage.

A thorough investigation will consider all these factors.