Japan Airlines plane in flames at Tokyo's Haneda airport

[dajop]

I'm assuming that you're on a burning aircraft, for most people adrenalin would kick in and you would make those sort of decisions without even thinking about them.

 

[justinbrett]

I know nothing of the Japanese legal system but would have thought if Coast Guard is proved to be at fault, JL (and/or its insurers) will be suing the Japanese government for its very substantial losses.

 

[jb747]

Also, shoes on. I'm not running through Jet A1 in thongs.

Shoes. Pants. Not synthetic. No shorts/thongs/pjs!

While the left rear slide was deployed, did anyone evacuate via that steep almost vertical slide? Or did most / all via the front left and right?

Some did. I thought it might have an extension for this sort of issue (the A380 does on the front doors), but apparently the angle, whilst very steep, is considered acceptable. I would not be stepping back into a smoky cabin if that was the choice. The smoke will kill you before you're aware it's doing so.

I guess I would never have made the grade as a pilot. I find it near impossible to make out what the ATC officers are saying on the recordings.

They are hard to understand at times, which is why "say again" is a good option. Sticking to standard phrases helps, as you're really only filling in the blanks then.

I wonder though if what the pilots hear from the ATC is significantly different to the ATC recordings uploaded to the internet.

I think it's a bit better, but not wonderfully so.

The timeline is interesting. 18 minutes between the aircraft coming to a stop and the final person being evacuated.

I haven't been able to find the complete videos that we had the other day, with the security camera timeline. I have trouble believing that time, as the smoke levels would have been completely untenable.

It seems the communication system on board failed, so cabin crew were unable to reach pilots, or communicate with each other.

Given the location of the damage, I would be very surprised if anything worked.

It appears some pax did try to retrieve cabin baggage, but were dissuaded by others.

Foreigners perhaps. I recall some people on AFF saying after the Dubai crash that they'd still have time to take their bags. Whilst they are in the overhead, they are out of the way. Once they take them out, and then dump them in the aisle they're a danger to everyone. I guess the theory is that as long as they're only a danger to everyone else, then it's ok.

Also, the rear door may have been opened prior to communication from the flight deck, given the communication system being out.

Once you call for an evacuation, you don't try to micro manage which doors are open. The cabin crew will make their own assessment of what is safe. The port rear door, not withstanding the slope, was a reasonable option. Interestingly, they left the starboard rear closed, presumably having realised that the right engine was still running.

That running engine is itself quite interesting. It appears that the fan was destroyed, but the core of the engine was still running. I don't think I've ever seen that before. The coughpit checklist for evacuation would normally shut the engines down, but if there is no electricity left to control things, then the fuel valves fail to the open position. This is also why one of the engines on QF32 wouldn't shut down. It's a much better option than the alternative though.

I know nothing of the Japanese legal system but would have thought if Coast Guard is proved to be at fault, JL (and/or its insurers) will be suing the Japanese government for its very substantial losses.

The Japanese legal system (like the French) sadly inserts itself into accident investigation as the primary body. Somebody has to be blamed, and that becomes the driving force, instead of the safety lessons.


This is the A380 emergency evacuation checklist. I'd expect the A350 to be identical.

● WHEN AIRCRAFT STOPPED :
PARK BRK ................................................................................................................................. ON
ATC .....................................................................................................................................NOTIFY
Notify ATC of the nature of the emergency, and state intentions.
CABIN CREW ...................................................................................................................... ALERT
Make the Alert Order PA. ("Attention, all passengers remain seated, await further instructions" - This is really telling the cabin crew to get ready, and decide which doors etc.)
PACK 1+2 .................................................................................................................................OFF
ALL ENG MASTERS.................................................................................................................OFF
Associated LP and HP valves close.
ALL FIRE P/Bs (ENG & APU) ................................................................................................ PUSH
ALL AGENTS (ENG & APU) ........................................................................................... AS RQRD
The use of agents is required if the ENG FIRE or APU FIRE alert is displayed.

■ IF EVAC RQRD :
EVAC (PA) ............................................................................................................. ANNOUNCE
Using the Passenger Address System, announce “EVACUATE — EVACUATE —EVACUATE”.
EVAC COMMAND ................................................................................................................ ON
ALL 4 BATs..........................................................................................................................OFF
Only PA announcement and CAB communication are available, via the handset.

■ IF EVAC NOT RQRD :
CABIN CREW & PAX (PA) ............................................................................................ADVISE

 

[Basaka]

I would imagine that JL/JAL would be up to quite a sum in insurance payouts for lost bags, tho some pax will claim off travel insurances.
Am sure a lot of personal items would have been destroyed, people who have left passports in seat backs or in overhead compartment, etc, would have also lost quite a sum of cash notes, as Japan still uses paper money, even polymer notes would have not survived the fire.
Yes, people did make it out, but a lot of things are irreplaceable, or will take a while to rodo, passports, etc.

I found the following tweet last night:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1742371126695850395

"Contacted by JAL. All luggage destroyed (of course) - they will compensate 200,000 yen. In addition, I am also able to claim my transportation home from yesterday. I am surprised at how quickly they're handling this given what happened yesterday - thought it would take a few months at least. Thank you JAL for this in addition to saving my life."

 

[elanshin]

I found the following tweet last night:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1742371126695850395

"Contacted by JAL. All luggage destroyed (of course) - they will compensate 200,000 yen. In addition, I am also able to claim my transportation home from yesterday. I am surprised at how quickly they're handling this given what happened yesterday - thought it would take a few months at least. Thank you JAL for this in addition to saving my life."

I would imagine this is separate to insurance (if you had any) as well.

Although do insurance generally cover events such as these?.

 

[stm1sydney]

I would imagine this is separate to insurance (if you had any) as well.

Insurance b*st*rds will probably decline payout on the basis that JAL paid compensation.

 

[MARTINE]

Insurance b*st*rds will probably decline payout on the basis that JAL paid compensation.

Not sure
When I made a claim with my insurer (Covid cancellation for which $1300 (out of $5000) paid as a good will I got all the rest from insurer

 

[tgh]

The tower communication I heard was unintelligible to me, in fact almost all air traffic directions I hear are fast clipped and often heavily accented , seldom resembling Clear and Simple English at all.
Leads to : Was the AT direction to the Dash8 suitably enunciated and transmitted such that a trained pilot could understand with no margin for error.
Did the pilot acknowledge the transmission ?

 

[Himeno]

 

[Must...Fly!]

The tower communication I heard was unintelligible to me, in fact almost all air traffic directions I hear are fast clipped and often heavily accented , seldom resembling Clear and Simple English at all.
Leads to : Was the AT direction to the Dash8 suitably enunciated and transmitted such that a trained pilot could understand with no margin for error.
Did the pilot acknowledge the transmission ?

One thing you have to understand is that the vast majority of recordings you hear are pulled by people with receives in their homes, with substandard if any antenna equipment. What sounds crackly and unintelligible to one receiver does not mean it is that way to all. In fact it is probably crystal clear to all the aircraft around Haneda which is what matters.

Also, in my own experience it is amazing what the human brain can learn to decipher very, very quickly. Just because it sounds like gibberish does not mean it is. You subconsciously are hunting for known phrases, sounds, numbers, letters, words. You usually don't need to hear everything to understand everything.

 

[moa999]

Some analysis on X here

https://twitter.com/x/status/1742210072682369284

 

[Himeno]

One thing you have to understand is that the vast majority of recordings you hear are pulled by people with receives in their homes, with substandard if any antenna equipment. What sounds crackly and unintelligible to one receiver does not mean it is that way to all. In fact it is probably crystal clear to all the aircraft around Haneda which is what matters.

Also, in my own experience it is amazing what the human brain can learn to decipher very, very quickly. Just because it sounds like gibberish does not mean it is. You subconsciously are hunting for known phrases, sounds, numbers, letters, words. You usually don't need to hear everything to understand everything.

Exactly. When listening to the same recording, I picked out the JL516 comms without any problems while others have complained they couldn't understand those same transmissions.

 

[jb747]

That transcript is rubbish. It's been translated from the english used to Japanese, and then retranslated back to english.

 

[tdimdad]

That transcript is rubbish. It's been translated from the english used to Japanese, and then retranslated back to english.

In that transcript, one thing jumps out: "Please taxi to the runway stop position on C5." I do hope this is a translation error doubled up because the instruction would be conflicting and confusing ('taxi to the runway' vs 'taxi to stop C5').

 

[justinbrett]

That transcript is rubbish. It's been translated from the english used to Japanese, and then retranslated back to english.

I was about to say, I thought Japan used ICAO RT (holding point, not stop position).

In that transcript, one thing jumps out: "Please taxi to the runway stop position on C5." I do hope this is a translation error doubled up because the instruction would be conflicting and confusing ('taxi to the runway' vs 'taxi to stop C5').

In English it should have been "Taxi to holding point C5 Runway 34R".

What's with the please? I've never included that in a clearance in my life.

 

[AIRwin]

View attachment 363559

Official transcript reported here:

Tokyo air traffic control transcript suggests only one plane had permission to be on runway before deadly Japan Airlines collision - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

 

[drron]

Official transcript reported here:

Tokyo air traffic control transcript suggests only one plane had permission to be on runway before deadly Japan Airlines collision - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

Though in that link the Coast Guard captain said that he had permission to take off.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Though in that link the Coast Guard captain said that he had permission to take off.

No, it said he maintains that he thought he had permission to take off.

Big difference.

 

[jb747]

And the issued instruction, was "taxi to holding point C5". And that was read back. Totally clear.

 

[p--and--t]

Well known ex-QF captain being interviewed by ABC24 re accident