Japan - VA or QF, or JQ

[Vic]

After following along with the VA flies to Japan thread. I've now hit a point of actually having to decide about flying to Japan. Haneda has been recommended as the preferred arrival point, due to closeness to where I need to be. But I've arrived at Narita a few times and have no issues with navigating Tokyo.

I need to be in Brisbane the week before. The price point is economy (QF) not QF business.
Qantas has direct BNE-HND approx. $3000 return flex economy for my dates. This would be the most uncomfortable. Cheaper economy options around $2000 and $1200 - but reduced flexibility and reduced upgrade chance. Business upgrade would be requested, of course.
VA BNE-xCNS-HND is approx. $3400 return in business. There is a long layover option where I can get a night in Cairns on the way out.
JQ, I haven't checked, but I suppose there should be options OOL/CNS - NRT. JQ Business should be about the same price point. Edit: Business max showing as $2100...

My assessment:
QF worst seat, economy service, highest upside if an upgrade comes in - start of new QFF year, ok earning in economy flex at best.
VA much better seat, business service, expect good catering, no upside potential - timing towards end of VA year should have platinum renewed already.
JQ probably a better seat than VA, food might be lower than VA. About on par - business earning start of QF year. Nominally the wrong airport, but not a biggie

Honestly don't know where to go with this one.
I think I'd welcome comments/opinions etc. What would you do?

 

[Fifa]

Also look at JAL and ANA (via SYD & MEL).
A great option is PE on the daytime flight to Japan and PE or J on the overnight flight back. Very competitively priced.

 

[bam71]

I’d run with JQ J first, VA J second, QF Y last.

 

[Vic]

I've check Q and pricing is looking pretty good. ~$2100. I could probably buy a lot of transfers for $1000

ANA and JAL seem to only fly from SYD. Which might be good - first lounge. Pricing in economy is comparable. JAL is doing something funny with premium economy flex pricing. But Flex economy seems to have no restrictions and PE has fees for changes and cancellations. Also fees for business. I guess you need to be super uncertain to pay an extra $1000 for economy over business.

 

[Forg]

^ Sounds like this isn’t relevant to you, but for most of us the fact that both JAL & ANA offer J-lounge access for PE makes that pricing … strange. Could be a deal to promote their PE product & yet their algorithm shows high demand for Y hence the high Y pricing (using their standard pricing model) around that time.

 

[encryptededdy]

^ Sounds like this isn’t relevant to you, but for most of us the fact that both JAL & ANA offer J-lounge access for PE makes that pricing … strange. Could be a deal to promote their PE product & yet their algorithm shows high demand for Y hence the high Y pricing (using their standard pricing model) around that time.

JAL also provides lounge access on Y (as in Y fare class, Economy Flex) tickets.

 

[tdimdad]

JAL Y product is worth considering, too. On their 787's, the seats are clearly roomier than e.g. QF and overall both the hard and soft Y product is far nicer than QF. Their Y Flex vs PE pricing has been consistently like this for several years for whatever reason but you pick the price point you prefer from the options available.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I wouldn’t be so sure that VA J is anything special… still a cramped 737 with 2-2 limited recline seating? Maybe they’re gonna do something good seconal with the catering? But on regional international flights it’s the same as domestic, just served course by course.

Did I miss the VA on board product launch for Japan? But anyway, the seat alone would not be worth any premium.

 

[Forg]

If you're travelling with someone such that the privacy thing doesn't matter, and if it's a day flight, I don't see that the seats are that big a Thing? If you use the IFE it may matter, I believe they only do BYOD?

 

[jase05]

I wouldn’t be so sure that VA J is anything special… still a cramped 737 with 2-2 limited recline seating? Maybe they’re gonna do something good seconal with the catering? But on regional international flights it’s the same as domestic, just served course by course.

Did I miss the VA on board product launch for Japan? But anyway, the seat alone would not be worth any premium.

Yeah I’ve done ADL-DPS a few times in J for day flights and 5hrs is more than enough in those seats. I doubt I could handle 7-8hrs in them.

 

[stm1sydney]

After following along with the VA flies to Japan thread. I've now hit a point of actually having to decide about flying to Japan. Haneda has been recommended as the preferred arrival point, due to closeness to where I need to be. But I've arrived at Narita a few times and have no issues with navigating Tokyo.

Of those three, VA J seems the best option. But also have a look at the Japanese carriers as noted by others, and China Airlines or Eva via Taipei.

 

[stm1sydney]

I've check Q and pricing is looking pretty good. ~$2100. I could probably buy a lot of transfers for $1000

ANA and JAL seem to only fly from SYD. Which might be good - first lounge. Pricing in economy is comparable. JAL is doing something funny with premium economy flex pricing. But Flex economy seems to have no restrictions and PE has fees for changes and cancellations. Also fees for business. I guess you need to be super uncertain to pay an extra $1000 for economy over business.

View attachment 322117

The PE is not flex, it is standard, so the same restrictions as Economy Standard.

 

[Forg]

Yeah I’ve done ADL-DPS a few times in J for day flights and 5hrs is more than enough in those seats. I doubt I could handle 7-8hrs in them.

What's wrong with them, are they just poorly designed or something?
I found a review Matt G had made of VA J late last year, he seemed to think they weren't too horrible for something to sit rather than sleep in?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

the VA seats are really uncomfortable after 30 mins, especially given there are no pillows or anything else to support your lower back.

Row 2 seats suffer from very limited legroom.

 

[Forg]

Erk. Forget 9 hours in those, then, even if it's a day flight.

 

[jase05]

What's wrong with them, are they just poorly designed or something?
I found a review Matt G had made of VA J late last year, he seemed to think they weren't too horrible for something to sit rather than sleep in?

I take it you haven’t flown VA J?
The seats are fine for domestic trips and I can handle them for SHII but I just can’t get comfortable enough in them especially for 7-8hrs

 

[Vic]

I wouldn’t be so sure that VA J is anything special… still a cramped 737 with 2-2 limited recline seating? Maybe they’re gonna do something good seconal with the catering? But on regional international flights it’s the same as domestic, just served course by course.

Did I miss the VA on board product launch for Japan? But anyway, the seat alone would not be worth any premium.

I don't know about a product launch. I based my view on the domestic product, I find virgin business meals to be consistently good. Having said that my recent flights to cairns suggested catering was loaded for the return in Brisbane. So not sure of the catering departing cairns which they will need to go to Japan.
It's probably worthwhile remembering that I'm comparing VA business (that 'orrible seat), with Jetstar business with Qantas Economy. For mine the VA seat = Jetstar seat >>> Qantas economy. It's a relative scale not an absolute scale. Certainly the flight time will determine comfort of a given seat, in this case the flight times are all about the same.

If you're travelling with someone such that the privacy thing doesn't matter, and if it's a day flight, I don't see that the seats are that big a Thing? If you use the IFE it may matter, I believe they only do BYOD?

IFE is a good point, domestically there is often no in seat charging.

The PE is not flex, it is standard, so the same restrictions as Economy Standard.

The situation with Japan airlines, all the on ground extras is a great learning for me. In terms of the restrictions the only substantial issue seems to be the fee for changes and cancellation, at about $300 to $500 each. It just seems to me the fare difference ($2500 for PE and $1000 for business) would buy a lot of change fees or a cancellation fee.

Of those three, VA J seems the best option. But also have a look at the Japanese carriers as noted by others, and China Airlines or Eva via Taipei.

the Japan airline suggestions are great. I could only find flights from Sydney, and I'll be in Brisbane the week before. Sydney first lounge is attractive, not sure want to back track however.
JAL PE is at my price point, and would also be preferable to Qantas economy.

thanks for the other suggestions. I'll check them out.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The JQ front cabin seat is far more comfortable than the Virgin Australia business class seat. The Jetstar seat is much better padded has a leg rest and is designed for long haul travel. It also comes with significant recline and amenities such as a pillow and blanket.

 

[eastwest101]

Yeah the consensus is that if you live in or are prepared to transit in SYD there are numerous widebody choices and competition to fly to Japan (ANA, JAL, Qantas + others 1 stops via Asia) but if you live North of Sydney and/or don't like backtracking then the options rapidly disappear and become uncompetative/expensive and unappealing (JQ flight lottery and VA via CNS).

 

[elanshin]

You could also perhaps look at flights to SIN /KL/HKG and transfer although it would be a significant increase in travel time.

From the options listed I'd rank JQ J > VA J > QF Y.
But note that JQ goes to NRT which can be a downside compared with HND. If things are smooth at the airport, its no big deal. If TYO airports are slammed you want to be at HND.

My brother made the last train (23:00 skyliner) with 5 mins to spare after landing at 19:00 yesterday. It took almost 4 hours to get through immigration. If he missed it, it would've been an expensive $300 taxi ride from NRT.