Jetstar Bali turnaround 'unsafe'

[juliusg]

I flew JQ38 Friday 25 June (delayed until 4.20am Sat 26 June). The crew had been on duty since 4.50pm (Melbourne) and the flight arrived 11am (Sydney). With a direct turnaround the cabin crew worked 18+ hours on this pair.

As a passenger I feel the fatigue level of the cabin crew is too high - if we had an emergency at the end, how would they respond?

I note that the flight crew (pilots) do disembark and stay in Bali. But the cabin crew should not be expected to work this way, on an A330 which does not have the same crew rest facilities as a 747 or A380.

Jetstar should let the crew stay in Bali, or fly a second crew while the first crew deadhead back to Sydney/Melb.

 

[nlagalle]

I flew JQ38 Friday 25 June (delayed until 4.20am Sat 26 June). The crew had been on duty since 4.50pm (Melbourne) and the flight arrived 11am (Sydney). With a direct turnaround the cabin crew worked 18+ hours on this pair.

Hi Juliusg and welcome to AFF!

I think you will find they won't be working 18+ hours - it's against CASA Regulations on duty times which governs all Australian airlines.

 

[juliusg]

The crew ( two of them said the same thing) said they had 'an extension' and were allowed to work up to 20 hours. And it was crushing. You should have seen how they looked at the end.

 

[juliusg]

Additonal info: the flight Sydney > Bali was redirected through Melbourne, which is why the duty time blew out to 18+ hours. The crew started in Sydney, then went to Melbourne, making the flight very late into Bali. We were scheduled to leave Bali at 11pm and waited - waited - waited for the aircraft with the - by now - very tired crew. The (new) pilot made a point of advising pax when departing Bali that the crew had been on duty 'since 4pm'.

Everyone unimpressed.

Safety issue.

 

[gilby08]

I'm sorry but that is a lie, tech crew have a maximum amount of hours they can do, this is enforced in their EBA and CASA regulations.

This is the reason why flight get cancelled some times, because crew have run out of hours.

 

[juliusg]

No word of a lie, the crew < were > compelled to work the flights, the pilot made it clear to the pax that the crew had been on duty since '4pm', the crew told me the same thing, albeit 4.50pm ex Sydney, then Melb, then Bali, then Sydney. Arrive at 11am.

Disgraceful.

I have filed a REPCON report as well.

 

[gilby08]

DJ do the same thing AFAIK on their MEL/SYD-DPS/HKT routes.. So report them too!

 

[milehighclub]

Cabin crew hours are not governed under CASA, only by the contract with the company. At Qantas we can work up to 20 hours and can still elect to work over that in situations of extreme delay. Two days ago the crew did 21 hours because of fog diversion - and it's perfectly legal

Some Qantas sectors are 17 duty hours before you throw in a little delay

Pilots on the other hand do have duty hours that are governed by CASA.

 

[moa999]

Disgraceful.

I have filed a REPCON report as well.

I had to Google that.
Which airline do you work for juliusg?

 

[ANstar]

DJ do the same thing AFAIK on their MEL/SYD-DPS/HKT routes.. So report them too!

They dont do SYD/MEL-DPS double bangers.

They may do SYD-DPS-PER or DPS-PER-DPS but not MEL-DPS-MEL.

As for it being unsafe, as long as it does not go above their agreed hours I cant saee how it is unsafe. Presumably the crews with QF (jetconnect?) who did LAX-JFK-LAX would have had similar duty hours in delay situaitons? Or someone flyign a delayed SYD-LAX?

I also see you have posted this on various sites (PPrune, FT etc)...

 

[Worldtraveller8888]

Welcome to the world of long-haul flying. 18+ hour tour of duties are not uncommon, or necessarily unsafe.

Just because a duty is long, doesn't mean it is unsafe. A 12hr duty can be worse than an 18hr duty, depending on when report time was, how much sleep you get beforehand, what you got up to the day before, how much rest you got onboard, etc.

If the Cabin Crew felt too fatigued to continue the duty, then they should have said so in DPS and not continued. The fact that they didn't suggests they felt they could continue to operate safely.

WT

 

[juliusg]

So at 4am in Bali, with pax already delayed 5+ hours, the crew bail out?

Where to?

Who pays the US $25 arrival tax?

Who collects them, and takes them where?

Seriously, can't we just all unite against exploitation here?

 

[Must...Fly!]

So at 4am in Bali, with pax already delayed 5+ hours, the crew bail out?

Where to? A hotel is a good place to sleep.

Who pays the US $25 arrival tax? ...I can't imagine you having to pay an arrival tax, it's a delayed flight and you never left the country.

Who collects them, and takes them where? See above

Seriously, can't we just all unite against exploitation here? I'm trying hard not to be offensive here, but seriously, the crew have final word on whether they fly or not.

Answers in bold...

 

[gilby08]

So at 4am in Bali, with pax already delayed 5+ hours, the crew bail out?

It's been done before on significant delays

Where to?

A hotel until the minimum rest period concludes

Who pays the US $25 arrival tax?

The airline obviously will pay for the crew

Who collects them, and takes them where?

Contractors, ie the ground staff organise the transport and accomm..
There are more flights in and out of DPS, you have to remember all flights from SIN/MEL/SYD/DRW/PER and SIN (VF)

Seriously, can't we just all unite against exploitation here?

What exploitation? If you don't like the conditions in the company under the Team JQ agreement, don't work for them.

 

[NM]

Seriously, can't we just all unite against exploitation here?

What? And have to pay higher air fare to cover the extra costs? This is a direct result of
passengers wanting to buy the cheapest possible fares. The airlines are just supplying what the passengers want.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

This has been going on for many years on the East Coast - DPS turnarounds. Nothing new here.

Dont forget some long haul's are 15 hours (some up to 18), the crew have to work at least 1.5 hours before and 1 hour after on those flights. Yes they get time to rest as well but so do the JQ crew.

 

[juliusg]

Gee this is a negative forum.

I posted this report as I was angry at the work practices Jetstar impose on their 'willing' crew. I put my name to it: Julius G, aka Julius Grafton. Paying Star Class passenger of Jetstar.

Then we have a bunch of sliver, platinum, FF numbats saying 'it's all OK, crew can rest, crew can work'. Like you care?

One tosser says 'OK, the crew can pull out of the flight at 0400 in Denpassar, The airline will pay their costs (and the passengers).'

Get real.

Challenge, soft guys. Come and get me. Rydalmere, Sydney. Anytime.

1. Any of you ever done any REAL shift work? Know ANYTHING about OH&S?

2. The cost of one aborted flight (the crew pull the plug in in Denpassar) probably exceeds the annual cost of slipping the crew there! Do the math!

Honestly, I've lodged a report with CASA, and written to Jetstar.

I am with the crew.

Some of you guys are soft office workers who treat aircrew as servants.

Suck eggs.

 

[gilby08]

Gee this is a negative forum.

I posted this report as I was angry at the work practices Jetstar impose on their 'willing' crew. I put my name to it: Julius G, aka Julius Grafton. Paying Star Class passenger of Jetstar..

So airlines such as QF, CX, BA, SG, TG, AF, EY, EK etc etc who do 14-15hr flights not including ground time are making crew an OH&S issue?

Then we have a bunch of sliver, platinum, FF numbats saying 'it's all OK, crew can rest, crew can work'. Like you care?

Well it's their job? They know what they are doing and getting into.

One tosser says 'OK, the crew can pull out of the flight at 0400 in Denpassar, The airline will pay their costs (and the passengers).'

Get real.

Challenge, soft guys. Come and get me. Rydalmere, Sydney. Anytime.

Okay, WTH are you going on about?

1. Any of you ever done any REAL shift work? Know ANYTHING about OH&S?

Yes actually, just came off 4 days of 4am starts and have a 1345 shift tomorrow. We only have a min on 10hr turn around.

2. The cost of one aborted flight (the crew pull the plug in in Denpassar) probably exceeds the annual cost of slipping the crew there! Do the math!

Honestly, I've lodged a report with CASA, and written to Jetstar.

I am with the crew.

Some of you guys are soft office workers who treat aircrew as servants..

Hmmm okay then!

Suck eggs.

Nice. Bye bye

 

[milehighclub]

Your letter to CASA and Jetstar are a waste of time.

It is perfectly legal for crew to operate for the amount of time that you have given, even pilots can work up to 20 hours on long haul flights. The reason the pilots get off is because there are only 2 pilots. When you have 2 pilots their duty time is lower than if they had 3 or 4. The more pilots, the longer they can fly.

18 hours in not uncommon as we have tried to tell you. I myself am a long haul flight attendant and almost weekly do a 17-18 hour day. Yes it is a bit exhausting at times but it is the nature of the job.

My union fights for some of the best working conditions among flight attendants in the world, and even they allow 20 hour sectors for both QAL and QCCA crew.

It's great that you want to support the crew, but I don't think you have an understanding of how long haul works

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Gee this is a negative forum.

I posted this report as I was angry at the work practices Jetstar impose on their 'willing' crew. I put my name to it: Julius G, aka Julius Grafton. Paying Star Class passenger of Jetstar.

Then we have a bunch of sliver, platinum, FF numbats saying 'it's all OK, crew can rest, crew can work'. Like you care?

One tosser says 'OK, the crew can pull out of the flight at 0400 in Denpassar, The airline will pay their costs (and the passengers).'

Get real.

Challenge, soft guys. Come and get me. Rydalmere, Sydney. Anytime.

1. Any of you ever done any REAL shift work? Know ANYTHING about OH&S?

2. The cost of one aborted flight (the crew pull the plug in in Denpassar) probably exceeds the annual cost of slipping the crew there! Do the math!

Honestly, I've lodged a report with CASA, and written to Jetstar.

I am with the crew.

Some of you guys are soft office workers who treat aircrew as servants.

Suck eggs.

If you didn't want people to reply with their own opinion then NEVER EVER post anything in an internet forum anytime.

FWIW I work 12 hour night shifts.