Just when you thought you had seen it all in the Qantas lounge...

[Vic]

Oh come on it has nothing to do about stopping women wanting to wear what they want. Cover up and wear what you want. (Notice how I didn't say anything about the stupidity of wearing torn/ripped clothing in public?)

Why does everything we do cater towards making the minority feel like they fit in? There is absolutely no reason to dress this way (or lack of dress) in public.

LOL the ironic contradiction.
'Nothing to do about stopping other people wearing what they want, but wear something to cover up because I don't like it'...

How about DO NOT LOOK, OLD MAN?

 

[GoldenTouchdown]

Bit like a judge in wig and monogrammed robes lounging in F …

Imagine the whole lounge stopping to stand when a judge enters or leaves, whilst the lounge dragon plays court officer

 

[JohnK]

How about DO NOT LOOK, OLD MAN?

Too late. You mean turn away if you see something you don't like? That's not the answer.

We should be teaching our kids some self respect not flaunting themselves.

 

[Vic]

Too late. You mean turn away if you see something you don't like? That's not the answer.

We should be teaching our kids some self respect not flaunting themselves.

No I don't mean turn away, I mean don't look. Do not look. It's really easy ignore things. Do not look.
Fundamentally, it sounds exactly like you're demanding people dress to suit you... the 1950s are calling...

 

[Franky]

No I don't mean turn away, I mean don't look. Do not look. It's really easy ignore things. Do not look.
Fundamentally, it sounds exactly like you're demanding people dress to suit you... the 1950s are calling...

Perhaps, but we are all entitled to our own opinion, which we are allowed to express. Looking away from something is denial….

 

[Vic]

Perhaps, but we are all entitled to our own opinion, which we are allowed to express. Looking away from something is denial….

Nothing I've written precludes someone having an opinion.
The issue is demanding people behave according to that opinion. Someone might think others are "flaunting" themselves, that's an opinion no matter how misguided. Holding that opinion does not create the right to demand/insist that they cover up.

Sorry, people DO NOT have to conform to the opinions of others. especially not the opinions of OLD white men...

Oh and it's not denial. Much more fundamental - mind your own business.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Nothing I've written precludes someone having an opinion.
The issue is demanding people behave according to that opinion. Someone might think others are "flaunting" themselves, that's an opinion no matter how misguided. Holding that opinion does not create the right to demand/insist that they cover up.

Sorry, people DO NOT have to conform to the opinions of others. especially not the opinions of OLD white men...

Oh and it's not denial. Much more fundamental - mind your own business.

Why do you keep repeating the word 'old' and putting it in capital letters. Is it an offense to now be 'old'? It sounds to me like you are ageist.

 

[drron]

No I don't mean turn away, I mean don't look. Do not look. It's really easy ignore things. Do not look.
Fundamentally, it sounds exactly like you're demanding people dress to suit you... the 1950s are calling...

Though you can't unlook a vision. Too late to don't look at something you are confronted with.

 

[JohnK]

No I don't mean turn away, I mean don't look. Do not look. It's really easy ignore things. Do not look.
Fundamentally, it sounds exactly like you're demanding people dress to suit you... the 1950s are calling...

Sorry @Vic I do know what you're saying.

You're saying ignore what everyone around you is doing even though they are wrong.

I have a 7 year old daughter in my old age. I am seeing this beautiful, gorgeous human being developing. I do not want to see her ending up like trash by flaunting her "private" parts in public. This is not respect. This is not how any parent wants to see their child end up.

P.S. Once you've seen something then it's not easy to unsee.

 

[puchu]

Sorry @Vic I do know what you're saying.

You're saying ignore what everyone around you is doing even though they are wrong.

I have a 7 year old daughter in my old age. I am seeing this beautiful, gorgeous human being developing. I do not want to see her ending up like trash by flaunting her "private" parts in public. This is not respect. This is not how any parent wants to see their child end up.

P.S. Once you've seen something then it's not easy to unsee.

It’s not up to others to conform to what you like. Consider what you or your compatriots wore in your 20s and how back then people of your age now would have reacted. Society moves on and what you believe is right and respectable may not be the same as what younger generations believe.

It’s also not up to society to raise your child. I’m sure you will provide her with the right morals as you see fit, but I seriously doubt that one brief encounter with a scantily dressed stranger will overwhelm years of your trusted parental guidance.

Though you can't unlook a vision. Too late to don't look at something you are confronted with.

Surely you can toughen up and get over it? Are you really that shocked and confronted by someone dressed differently?

 

[JohnK]

It’s also not up to society to raise your child. I’m sure you will provide her with the right morals as you see fit, but I seriously doubt that one brief encounter with a scantily dressed stranger will overwhelm years of your trusted parental guidance.

It's not just one brief encounter. What I see out there is out of control. Go to any busy shopping centre on a Saturday afternoon. It'd be sort of ok if these were fully grown adults but in most cases its 13-14 year old girls making a statement they do not understand and their parents playing along.

Let's leave it there because we're not going to agree.

 

[Mr H]

I do not want to see her ending up like trash by flaunting her "private" parts in public.

I am sorry you think female bodies are trash. I hope your daughter has other male role models in her life who might see her as more than meat that has to be protected from the wolves.

 

[puchu]

It's not just one brief encounter. What I see out there is out of control. Go to any busy shopping centre on a Saturday afternoon. It'd be sort of ok if these were fully grown adults but in most cases its 13-14 year old girls making a statement they do not understand and their parents playing along.

Let's leave it there because we're not going to agree.

I’m sorry JohnK but I’m not leaving it there simply because you don’t think we will agree. Like I said, people do not need to conform to your view of the world. Much as how I or anyone else has zero right or responsibility to tell you how to raise your children, you likewise have no right to tell other parents how they should raise their children.

Further, if you think there’s so many instances of scandalous behaviour and dress that the sheer preponderance is going to overwhelm your ability to guide your child’s moral sensibility, consider these two things:

1. If there’s so many people doing it and there’s so many parents “playing along” with it (btw those parents are just like you, making calls the best they can in life), perhaps your beliefs and world view are out of step with society’s and not vice versa; and
2. It is still not society’s responsibility to parent your child, so stop expecting everyone else to comply with what you want

I want to note by the way that my replies here are not any sort of negative comment on age or anything like that. I’m merely advocating for self responsibility, and tolerance for and understanding of others. Those are some of the Australian values in the citizenship test I took recently and I think we would all be better if we remember and act through them every day.

… unless they break the Qantas lounge dress code rules, in which case boot ‘em out

 

[sudoer]

Well said @puchu and congratulations on the citizenship.

 

[prozac]

...

… unless they break the Qantas lounge dress code rules, in which case boot ‘em out

Was that part of the citizenship test?

 

[puchu]

Was that part of the citizenship test?

Bloody well should be

 

[RichardMEL]

(thank you @puchu for trying to drag this back on topic!)

I think the last few pages of debate about various people's ideas of "acceptable standards" (and how much they can vary) illustrates a broader point that I've been trying to find a way to put across Basically the notion of "society norms" or "community standards" (as opposed to personal ones).

The vast majority of us are raised to be members of our societies to at least a base degree. Yes, various things like religious views, personal/family morals, upbringing, experiences, cultural beliefs etc will have their own effects on his but most people in so-called "civilised" societies - for better or worse - agree to base levels of acceptable forms of behaviour which includes dress standards. Of course, not everyone agrees, and their will be those who are on the fringe in various ways. And those who don't give a crud about any of it and do their own thing - to various degrees of acceptance.

So anyway, in terms of what is "acceptable" in public, and places like airline lounges (to try to keep this vaguely on topic) more or less rely on those shared cultural or societal "norms" that the majority accept (plus when certain places decree dress codes of course). Of course this varies where one is - not only within a society (for example, what would be generally OK on the beach probably would be frowned upon in an airport lounge) - but also differ by location (more conservative cultures and countries having far different rules and expectations on appropriate standards of wear and behaviour).

Regardless of "outliers" I think most people have a general sense of what is OK in public settings. Clearly some people's views will differ (ie is that teenager showing "too much skin") and are very subjective but to go to a more extreme example, I think everyone would agree that an individual in a lounge without a top (of any gender) wouldn't be generally acceptable. Even in CNS

Personally (as I've always said), I'm far less worried about what people choose to wear (or not) - as long as it's clean - and for me behaviour is far more o an issue. I mean if someone's out there comfortable enough to wear whatever even if I might think it's a inappropriate - It's on them, not me and if they're OK with that well that's for them to decide and not me.

Now, want to get me triggered? don't get me started about boorish inconsiderate behaviour and selfishness in lounges.....

 

[z28]

Why has it become acceptable for women to wear bra tops in public? Some leave very little to imagination.

But it's ok for men to go topless ? Anyway what were you imagining about under these garments, very naughty of you.

Perhaps, but we are all entitled to our own opinion, which we are allowed to express.

Perhaps, these women are expressing their own opinion

 

[RichardMEL]

"Fashion" and what is popular and acceptable (or tolerated) in society change over time, and between generations. Someone brought up in the 1950s would not doubt have been shocked and appalled at what was being worn in the 70s and 80s - and those same "rebels" may themselves not be so enamoured with "bra tops" and whatever else. It's the same with most aspects of culture - music, food, social culture etc.

The great thing about generally more tollerant socieites like Austtalia, is that there's no "morality police" to arrest(and worse) young ladies in bra tops, miniskirts or blokes wearing shirts with slogans like "F U RichardMEL!"

I, for one, am very happy we have no Morality Police.

We're all absolutely entitled to our views of course - and even to vouce them. Respectfully.

 

[Mr H]

I think everyone would agree that an individual in a lounge without a top (of any gender) wouldn't be generally acceptable.

I would find it very unusual and remarkable, but I would not go so far as to say it’s unacceptable. As far as I am concerned, people can wear what they like or go completely naked if they prefer. But I would draw the line at clothes with slogans that are intended to offend or promote causes that I adjudicate with hate.

I can’t help thinking of the ridiculous situation the British authorities got themselves into with the naked rambler.