Keep Virgin Australia in the Skies

[TerryW]

I have signed the Petition and will spread as far and wide as i can.

 

[LeeNClarkw]

Hi, I’m a Velocity member and an Airline Pilot with Virgin Australia. Below are a couple of petitions that would help Virgin Australia keep competition alive in Australian skies.

Many governments around the world are chipping in for their major carriers, acknowledging the particularly tough time they are transiting with COVID-19. We believe both Qantas and Virgin need assistance through this time.

There has been significant misinformation in the press about how Virgin is run. From the inside, like all large organisations, it’s not without its faults. When it comes to what matters to an Airline Pilot, I can tell you it’s an organisation that has safety and maintenance standards as an absolute unwavering top priority. Beyond our door, the obsession is customer service. What you have seen to date, is 20 years worth of work that is built on day by day. Thousands of reports from all staff and customers are continually collated and used when shaping policy and customer experience improvements.

The new CEO Paul Scurrah was brought in 18 months ago to streamline the operation and cut inefficiency that had built up over years of change and rapid growth. He hit the ground running when he was nearly immediately presented with the B737 MAX-8 crashes. He renegotiated leases and pushing back the deliveries to deliver strong outcomes for the balance sheet but also to allow the dust to settle and let the revised model be tested in service around the world before welcoming it into our fleet. Since then he has cut significant inneficiency in the organisation. This has not been without pain for many staff including Pilots. Despite this, his live all staff teleconferences are met with hundreds if not thousands of likes or supportive comments. Staff have rallied behind their leader and its not uncommon in the last few weeks for staff members to offer to come in and work for free to help the company though the tough times. He has refused these offers on both moral and legal grounds. The CEO has made it very clear to all staff we are not anti Qantas, indeed he is advocating for industrywide support.

In short, we have had some balance sheet issues associated with rapid growth of our brand and network. These were necessary to expand into the corporate market. Significant measures were already underway when Covid-19 turned up. Virgin has massive plans for the future, this includes enhanced customer experience and a single fleet of Wide Body next generation aircraft. On the other side of covid, there may be opportunities for Virgin Australia to expand into previously untapped markets. The Narrow Body B737 fleet and Velocity are very profitable.

We need the government to help but what we really need is your help. Please sign our petitions and spread them as far as you can. Friends, relatives welcome to get involved!

I’ll answer any questions you have, keeping in mind, my expertise is the pointy end of the aircraft and airlines these days are much more than what we do. As we pilots say ‘hope to see you out on the line.’.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison.


• Replacement Airline prospect

This would not become a reality for years. It is likely services would commence in cities, and services to regional towns would reduce if not be non-existent.

If Virgin collapses in the current environment, there is no third company already operating that can scale up, airfares will rise with a monopoly (as seen in Moranbah with a one-way ticket to Brisbane currently over $1,000), and further retard the economy’s ability to bounce back.

Virgin was operating when Ansett collapsed and was the third major player in the industry. It still took 12 years to get 70 aircraft operational. Since Virgin has entered the market, Australians have seen a 37% reduction in airfares.

It would take a new entrant at least a year to get a High Capacity Air Operators Certificate (AOC) approved by CASA before any aircraft could take passengers. This new entrant would likely struggle to compete with Qantas and would likely be a Low Cost Carrier (LCC) cherry picking profitable routes between cities, to the disadvantage of regional areas such as Albury, Mackay, Townsville, Port Macquarie, Mildura, Alice Springs and Darwin to name a few. The mining industry will have one airline to tender for their FIFO contracts and this LCC will more than likely be highly susceptible to price war attacks from Qantas, weakening their own ability to survive.

• Virgin’s part in the Australian Community

Virgin has played a major part in contributing to the Australian community. The airline has supported industries including the AFL, the Arts, Motorsport, Queensland Ballet and many charities including the Salvation Army. The airline adds $11 billion to the economy every year and support a further 600,000 people that work in hospitality and tourism.

• Airline pilot skill set

Given the specialist skills required to fly a commercial aircraft it is not easily transferable to another profession. It also takes several years to train a pilot and have them approved to fly a specific type of aircraft.

Sign the Petition

Virgin Australia brings competition to the Australian market, and competition keeps airfares affordable in Australia. But to keep bringing that competition, Virgin Australia needs the government’s assistance.
The COVID-19 induced economic crisis was not of Australia’s making, but it has been the decisions of the Australian government that have brought the multibillion dollar aviation sector to its knees in a few short months. No commentary here on whether the government’s decisions were right or wrong, but it is important to point out that it was not mismanagement that brought the airlines to this point of needing further government assistance to survive and recover. With the vast majority of aircraft now grounded, fixed costs are rapidly draining the airlines cash balances whilst the Coronavirus mitigation runs its course.
If Virgin Australia fails, it’s unlikely another will take its place. Consider this:

• Where’s the money for a new airline? With airlines and economies being financially decimated worldwide, it’s unrealistic that anyone would commit new capital to an airline venture.
• How long does it take to start a new airline? Safety is critical so it generally takes about 12 months to safely start a new airline.
• What sort of airline would they be? Most likely not a full service airline. A low cost airline requires less capital and less risk to start up.
• Where would they fly? A small network of profitable routes, excluding much of regional australia.

If Virgin Australia is allowed to fail, there’s no one ready to take their place.
Australian aviation will become a monopoly. A monopoly brings higher prices and less choice. Last time we saw this was when Ansett failed in 2001 – airfares were around 50% higher and it took years for Virgin Blue to bring real competition to the market. And that was in a strong economy!
Sign this petition in support of Virgin Australia’s application for a loan from the Australian Government, and keep airfares affordable.

Sign the Petition

While I sympathize with the crew and employees of Virgin, I have to say NO to bail out by Australian Gov. We are the tax payers of Australia and every dollar that the Gov spends is coming from our pocket and higher taxes! While profit and benefits etc that Virgin gets does not go to the tax payers but to its owners. The first PORT of CALL would be to the OWNERS of Virgin. As far as I know this carrier's OWNERS are Ethihad and Singapore Airlines. So let them be the first to bail this carrier out. No, Virgin is not the National Carrier of Australia because majority ownership of this carrier is other countries Gov who own SIA and Ethihad!
Every company and business calls into accountability and responsibility their management. If they are not able to compete in the market, it has to be a matter of survival of the fittest. If Qantas can get loan to survive, then Virgin should be as well. If every big business in town has to be bailed out by the Australian Gov, there would be no end to the DEBT that our Gov has to service and end of the day, it hits our pocket. If the market and environment is lucrative enough, there will be another competition and another competition to come in. Those who cannot survive cannot depend on the Gov to bail them out. There would be a first time bailing out, and another and another and when will it end?
I am NOT beholden to Qantas or employed by Qantas. I am an ordinary tax payer in Australia!!

 

[AIRwin]

I have signed the Petition and will spread as far and wide as i can.

This is where everyone can flout social distancing rules...

 

[jakeseven7]

Speak for yourself, we don't "ALL" believe this at all. Their service is incredible, like no other, and that is my opinion. Gotta love the people that are so brainwashed from Qantas CEO spin!

Thats ok, you speak for yourself as well, we all have our own opinion. I think you are being petty saying people are brainwashed from the Qantas CEO, there is no need for that on this forum!

I note a flurry of 5-6 time posters now in this thread.... Mmmm..... Wonder where they all popped up from

 

[Diadrat5]

Virgin may be the best things since slice bread. I won't be signing and the reason is the airline is 90% owned by foreigners. The government would be stupid to get themselves into this sort of messy arrangements.

 

[Mattg]

Virgin may be the best things since slice bread. I won't be signing and the reason is the airline is 90% owned by foreigners. The government would be stupid to get themselves into this sort of messy arrangements.

That is a point that is commonly used against the idea of giving VA a loan or bailout. It's an understandable argument, but I do believe it is still in the overall national interest for Virgin Australia to survive this crisis.

Aside from the many thousands of Australians that VA employs (who would lose their jobs), if the airline doesn't make it out the other end of all this, we'll be left with a monopoly in the Australian aviation market. That will lead to much higher domestic airfares and a reduction in service (both in terms of frequency and quality). In turn, less people will travel to/within Australia, which will also hurt the tourism industry and small businesses all across the country.

Tourism is Australia's third-largest export, and the industry employs 1 in 19 Australians (more than 600,000 people). In a post-COVID-19 world, no airline would be able to quickly fill a gap left by VA to become a new competitor to Qantas on the same scale as VA. So less people would travel and the cost of all this to our economy, in the long term, could be far greater than the cost of assisting VA now.

 

[dajop]

While I sympathize with the crew and employees of Virgin, I have to say NO to bail out by Australian Gov. We are the tax payers of Australia and every dollar that the Gov spends is coming from our pocket and higher taxes!

In addition to Mattg's very relevant points, here's another perspective. It has been suggested that airfares could rise by 10-30% if there were a monopoly, and no competitor in the marketplace. Let's say 20% for argument sake. Governments travel, so government airfare bill is 20% higher to start with - that's taxpayer money. In 2018, the federal government alone spent $300m on airfares - so 20% more would mean $60m. But more importantly, businesses travel, and they pay taxes so every $1000 the business is now paying $1200 in airfares. So $200 more in expense, reduces the bottom line by $200, which means about $60 less tax the business pays (in theory).

The flaw in this analysis is that is assumes businesses and governments pay more - the reality is they probably travel less.

But still there are national benefits in preserving competition in a market where the barriers to entry are very high.

 

[odysseus]

That is a point that is commonly used against the idea of giving VA a loan or bailout. It's an understandable argument, but I do believe it is still in the overall national interest for Virgin Australia to survive this crisis.

Aside from the many thousands of Australians that VA employs (who would lose their jobs), if the airline doesn't make it out the other end of all this, we'll be left with a monopoly in the Australian aviation market. That will lead to much higher domestic airfares and a reduction in service (both in terms of frequency and quality). In turn, less people will travel to/within Australia, which will also hurt the tourism industry and small businesses all across the country.

Tourism is Australia's third-largest export, and the industry employs 1 in 19 Australians (more than 600,000 people). In a post-COVID-19 world, no airline would be able to quickly fill a gap left by VA to become a new competitor to Qantas on the same scale as VA. So less people would travel and the cost of all this to our economy, in the long term, could be far greater than the cost of assisting VA now.

True. The government provided support to various overseas owned car manufacturers in the past, as well as other foreign owned businesses that have benefited from government spending/taxation policies.

There's nothing unique about Virgin getting assistance if it's significantly foreign owned, in fact the opposite.

However, the difference here is there would be far more Australian beneficiaries than any other example of a foreign company getting benefits that I can think of. Usually, those benefiting are in the tens of thousands at most. Here it's >100 times that.

 

[Cubiscus]

While I sympathize with the crew and employees of Virgin, I have to say NO to bail out by Australian Gov. We are the tax payers of Australia and every dollar that the Gov spends is coming from our pocket and higher taxes!

Its not this simplistic. Virgin regardless of ownership supports 10000+ jobs in Australia, paying tax, and vast supply chains, paying tax and airports, paying tax.

Those jobs going also costs the country more with benefits, and higher airfares due to lack of market options. For example with government travel they'd have very little leverage left to lower costs.

In addition capital money spent doesn't come from your pocket, its borrowed at historically low rates (close to zero) and is a loan that could be converted to equity, not a grant.

I think it'll end up costing far more overall to both the government and consumers for VA to go under than to support them.

 

[jkbaus]

Happily signed both

 

[Budbrian]

I was one of 16000 Ansett employee‘s that had to not only mentally deal with it’s demise, but also financially. The implications of what happened lasted many years to many employees. From my personal viewpoint it is NOT something i would wish to happen to Virgin’s 9000 employees. There is nowhere else for them to seek other employment right now, Virgin and Qantas at least picked up some people at the time, but QF is stretched right now.

Virgin has developed into a great airline over the years, that would not be replaced anytime soon if they do not survive.

signed the petition and sent on.

 

[N860CR]

It’s worth noting to that while the profits to the company may go offshore (well.... what profits), the staff are virtually all in australia, paying Australian income tax and spending their money here. A large number of those staff also find themselves in the highest tax bracket. Moving forward, if Virgin goes, a lot of higher income earners will follow them out of the country. Pilots and engineers (even some cabin crew) will end up in the Middle East or Asia and that money doesn’t filter back into our economy. Add the suppliers who lose an income stream... and a loan from the taxpayer (not a bailout) doesn’t seem like such a bad option.

 

[Zinger]

Happily signed and shared.

I will also share with my local federal member and senators.

The last thing this country needs is a monopoly airline, or a two airline market with those two being Qantas and Jetstar.

Those of us who live outside of Sydney and Melbourne rely on a vibrant competitive airline environment. I do hope VA management is able to convince the government that it's in the national interest the airline not only survives but is able to be an active player in the market.

 

[MarkD]

I am still extremely po by the government response giving crackheads and career dole bludgers extra cash. I see these grubs smashed off their faces, all cashed up with our tax dollars, yet decent hard working people get nothing. Seriously, support our workers who contribute to society, not those that just lounge around smoking meth all day. So they give heaps of cash to people who are going to continue to do what they do ie nothing, yet if you have a decent job and lose it you have to jump through hoops. I get that these career bludgers and crackheads spend whatever they get but 99% will be spent on illicit drugs which will either leave the country or be laundered anyway. I have some grubs in one of my properties and all of a sudden the grubs have stopped paying their rent, they have doubled their money coming in but have decided they don't have enough to pay their rent.... I cant kick them out now either. Another kick in the guts.... Good luck to all the VA employees, stick it up those wankers in Canberra.

 

[Dalmunzie]

There are so many different aspects to consider as to whether the Government should assist or not.
The short answer is absolutely !
Therefore petition happily signed by another from the "flurry" of 5-6 times posters !

 

[jakeseven7]

It’s worth noting to that while the profits to the company may go offshore (well.... what profits), the staff are virtually all in australia, paying Australian income tax and spending their money here. A large number of those staff also find themselves in the highest tax bracket. Moving forward, if Virgin goes, a lot of higher income earners will follow them out of the country. Pilots and engineers (even some cabin crew) will end up in the Middle East or Asia and that money doesn’t filter back into our economy. Add the suppliers who lose an income stream... and a loan from the taxpayer (not a bailout) doesn’t seem like such a bad option.

Exactly, which is why I signed it.

It just needs to be fair and equitable support across the board, not just with QF but also retailers, hospitality etc as well. They can't pick and choose who to save.

 

[clipped_wings]

Signed, shared and the last $7 on my Velocity Global Wallet was donated

I'm one of those people who lost everything 2 weeks ago and is currently hoping the Government can help us stay alive until business can resume. I am not a grub, nor will I be spending my handout on meth. I will probably buy food, pay credit card bills and try to keep the mortgage going. I hate that I am in this position, but I know that Virgin Australia and it's employees are facing the same uncertain future that I am. I hope VA survives. I hope we all do.

 

[rock86]

I've signed the petitions.

While I agree Virgin needs to stay functioning, I don't believe the Government should be providing a bailout with no conditions attached - it has already provided QF & VA with 'cash' through waiving fees.

I think any assisstance should be akin to what the NZ government has provided Air New Zealand, a low (I don't care if it's no) interest loan facility with conditions of no capital returns or dividends to be paid until the facility is repaid, and should the facility not be repaid then the Company must raise capital to do so or the Government can convert the loan facility into equity interest.

 

[jakeseven7]

I've signed the petitions.

While I agree Virgin needs to stay functioning, I don't believe the Government should be providing a bailout with no conditions attached - it has already provided QF & VA with 'cash' through waiving fees.

I think any assisstance should be akin to what the NZ government has provided Air New Zealand, a low (I don't care if it's no) interest loan facility with conditions of no capital returns or dividends to be paid until the facility is repaid.

But the AU government would need to explain slowly and carefully to VA management what a capital return or dividend was first

The Village HQ might think they are new Friday afternoon coughtails

 

[jase05]

Virgin may be the best things since slice bread. I won't be signing and the reason is the airline is 90% owned by foreigners. The government would be stupid to get themselves into this sort of messy arrangements.

Were you happy that the government propped up Holden for all those years despite them being 100% foreign owned?