Last ever F equipped aircraft to arrive this weeked for QF

[markis10]

OQL is on its way to its new home as we speak, I wonder if it will be the last new aircraft QF get with a F cabin???

 

[Reggie]

OQL is on its way to its new home as we speak, I wonder if it will be the last new aircraft QF get with a F cabin???

I wouldn't be so sure about it being the last F cabin.

I was invited the breakfast at the Crown Perth (nee Burswood) the other day to hear James Packer speak. Apart from the plans for Crown globally and moreso Perth, it was interesting to hear what he/Crown had to say about their predictions for the tourist market. The common thread was China (and India to a degree) and their want for luxury travel/holidays.

Crown Perth provide 3 private jets for their high rollers, and have recently spent $750 million improving the "luxury" facilities at Crown Perth, and $1.4 billion at Crown Melbourne.

Whilst F might be on a decline during this GFC, I am not sure it will completely die out, and a resurgence will occur, and again QF will be on the wrong side of the curve, as per premium Y and individual IFE.

 

[docjames]

Last one until they realize their mistake and refit the aircraft at great expense......

 

[Noob]

Would it be smarter to just reduce the number of F seats?
Qantas with 14 seats in all its First Class equipped airliners currently operates one of the largest First Class cabins in the world by seat capacity.

---

A380-800 Configurations and the number of First Class seats:

Qantas - 14 Seats
Emirates - 14 Seats
Korean Air - 12 Seats
Singapore Airlines - 12 Seats
Thai Airways - 12 Seats
Air France - 9 Seats
Lufthansa - 8 Seats
China Southern - 8 Seats
Malaysian Airlines - 8 Seats

---

 

[Robert K]

Guess it wouldn't be easy to reduce F seats as a retrofit. They'd have to move the galley too.

 

[el_rooto]

Its not the last ever F equipped aircraft. Its the last F equipped 380. I am sure the F product will be arround to stay.

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[aus_flyer]

Its not the last ever F equipped aircraft. Its the last F equipped 380. I am sure the F product will be arround to stay.

I think you've missed the point.

 

[Noob]

Guess it wouldn't be easy to reduce F seats as a retrofit. They'd have to move the galley too.

The cost of retrofitting would be outweighed by long term higher profits.

If they are currently half filling the F cabin of 14 seats, they are still selling 7 seats. Hence a cabin of 8 would be perfect in this scenario, and the economy cabin can be expanded.

check out this graphic comparing the number of seats in each class to the percentage total profit for an airline:

 

[pshepvic]

Its not the last ever F equipped aircraft. Its the last F equipped 380. I am sure the F product will be arround to stay.

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It's is the last F equipped 380 on current orders. In 5-10 years time when they retire a few ancient 747s they will need to replace them with something and may need to order more 380s. Nothing to say they couldn't put F cabins in again in future, even if current orders don't necessitate it.

The F product is being removed from all the 747s now, so it is unlikely to be seen in anything else apart from 380s - maybe the 787, but I'd say very unlikely.


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[Sprucegoose]

Last one until they realize their mistake and refit the aircraft at great expense......

Yes I agree. The strategy all seems a bit knee jerk.

Getting on with your staff would be a good starting point.

Realising one man a cannot fight a strong corporate culture would be the next lesson.

 

[elbarto]

The F product is being removed from all the 747s now, so it is unlikely to be seen in anything else apart from 380s - maybe the 787, but I'd say very unlikely.


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That's if the 787 even makes it in to the QF fleet. Seems a few slides in a presentation to investors by QF last week seemed to imply that it's entry into the fleet depended on it's economics. Which is odd, or simply evidence that the death star is taking over!

 

[pshepvic]

That's if the 787 even makes it in to the QF fleet. Seems a few slides in a presentation to investors by QF last week seemed to imply that it's entry into the fleet depended on it's economics. Which is odd, or simply evidence that the death star is taking over!

Not sure what they'll replace the old 767s with then!


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[docjames]

Not sure what they'll replace the old 767s with then!


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330s basically

 

[elbarto]

It's is the last F equipped 380 on current orders. In 5-10 years time when they retire a few ancient 747s they will need to replace them with something and may need to order more 380s. Nothing to say they couldn't put F cabins in again in future, even if current orders don't necessitate it.

The F product is being removed from all the 747s now, so it is unlikely to be seen in anything else apart from 380s - maybe the 787, but I'd say very unlikely.


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It would be an odd decision to not bring the 787 in at all. They complain about fuel prices, yet insist on using inefficient aircraft when the have an opportunity to fix it.
I believe they will have the 787 in their fleet.

 

[pshepvic]

330s basically

And how many of those do they have on order? Or will they just take back the JQ ones when they get the 787s?

Seems like a waste of time effort and money to me...


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[pshepvic]

It would be an odd decision to not bring the 787 in at all. They complain about fuel prices, yet insist on using inefficient aircraft when the have an opportunity to fix it.
I believe they will have the 787 in their fleet.

I still think they'll get some 787s even if the majority go to JQ. I doubt they'll have F in them though.


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[elbarto]

Here's the slide, read into it what you will.

I still think they'll get some 787s even if the majority go to JQ. I doubt they'll have F in them though.


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I doubt they'll have Skybeds let alone F!

 

[pshepvic]

Here's the slide, read into it what you will.

View attachment 5022



I doubt they'll have Skybeds let alone F!

Well that slide is wrong even for the current fleet.

Today they operate A330 on Dom as well as Int, and 767 on Int as well as Dom, neither of which are shown. I get that they are showing the number of aircraft types, but why put if they are Dom or Int without showing it correctly? Plus JQ operate 6 A321s as well as 320s.

Don't quite see how they'll only have A380s on Int either - I doubt they'd fly them to Santiago once the 747s are retired. Seems more like a route for the 787. They had also mentioned previously the possibility of the 787 flying to DFW. And what about the other 767 and Int A330 routes they still service (Manila, Honolulu, Tokyo, Jakarta etc)? Axe the routes altogether? Replace with JQ? Certainly wouldn't be A380s!

But if they are flying 787 beyond Oz I would certainly expect skybeds. I doubt they'd go all economy/PE!

With the domestic competition heating up they're possibly even likely to put skybeds in the trans-con 787s (*if they get them for that purpose). If they're using skybed fitted 747 and 330s now for that I'd say it will continue - maybe with a redesigned seat to take up less space.


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[Flying Fox]

OQL is on its way to its new home as we speak, I wonder if it will be the last new aircraft QF get with a F cabin???

A sad day indeed. I so hope that its not the last.

Whilst F might be on a decline during this GFC, I am not sure it will completely die out, and a resurgence will occur, and again QF will be on the wrong side of the curve, as per premium Y and individual IFE.

Last one until they realize their mistake and refit the aircraft at great expense......

Totally agree and I've said it before. QF need to think ahead and be ready for the end of the GFC and the recovery of the global economy. Having less premium seats delivered now will only mean less revenues when the GFC ends. They could use current low volumes in F/J to open up QFF point opportunities and then return these inventories to normal when the GFC is over.

QF are perfectly out of phase for the economy. I wish that they would stop looking backwards and start looking forwards. This is part of the cause for QFi financial problems.

They should be acquiring new aircraft (even with extended delivery dates) at low prices now when others don't want them or can't take them. I believe that Ryan Air & others have done this before to negotiate very good prices.

Here's the slide, read into it what you will.

Can't see how this slide could be correct. How can QFi only fly A380s? Surely there must be routes that QFi will be flying in the future that would be too thin for an A380 to be financially viable? Plus a smaller aircraft will be required to open new routes for eventual A380 volumes.

 

[notzac]

Surely there must be routes that QFi will be flying in the future that would be too thin for an A380 to be financially viable? Plus a smaller aircraft will be required to open new routes for eventual A380 volumes.

Pure speculation, but: I think you'll find that QFi will be shrunk over the next 10 years to the point of only operating the major routes to SIN, HKG, LHR and LAX (possibly DFW as well, but I could actually see that route being taken on by AA). JQi will be up-specced to an extent and will operate all other routes in conjunction with their Asian airline (assuming it ever gets off the ground) and other partner airlines.