Latitude 28 Degrees $8 per month starting September 2024

[RAM]

This moving of the goal posts is rampant at the moment. So many institutions are executing their "right" to change their T&C's whenever they see fit, it's seriously hard to keep up. I remember back when contracts were actual contracts and the whole point of them was that THEY COULDN'T BE CHANGED. I know that concept seems oddly quaint like something your grandfather would come out with either right before or after the words "Back in the good old days…", but seriously, what is the point of a contract for credit if it includes the clause that the terms and conditions included can be changed at any time without the agreement or approval of both parties?

Surely such a clause immediately dissolves the contract from being an actual contract, or else the very definition of the word contract has changed so dramatically as to not actually mean the same thing anymore. I guess it's a bit like traffic lights, where green, amber and red used to mean go, be prepared to stop, and stop, Whereas now green means go, amber means go faster, and red is nothing more than a suggestion.

I'm not sure the 'contracts' have changed much in the last 40 years - I recently thinned my collection of old T&C booklets (sniff, sniff) after doing one last cpmparison with the latest versions for several cards. All had the clause along the lines of 'provide advance notice in writing at least X days before taking affect'.

True, the number of days may have dropped slightly but they're still typically well over 30 days.

I think what has changed is the ability to make money out of CCs now that the half-hearted attempt by the RBA to stop fee-gouging as well as the change to the issuers being able to freely attempt to turn you into a credit addict with unlimited 'increase your limit' offers. The amount of psychology used against customer was phenomenal.

Creating a 'revolver' was the aim, make you addicted to spending without thinking about how you'd pay it off saw seasonal analysis of every card user. If over the previous 2 or 3 years you typically increased your monthly spend in July (perhaps booking Xmas holidays) - then you'd receive an offer to increase your credit limit in mid to late June by around the proportion your monthly spending had increased from June to July in previous years.

If accepted within X days then you'd receive follow-up limit increase offers of smaller amounts. Again, depending on how many days it took you to respond would determine how soon (and how large) the next offer would be.

All designed to get you hooked and to get to the point that you can no longer pay off the balance each statement period.

 

[Legoman]

I've gone to walk out of car rentals and hotels in the US where they've got pre-booked and pre-paid rentals where they've said they can't rent without a card - and I've said "that's OK - you've already taken my payment from my card details online, so clearly that is sufficient, I'll be doing a charge-back on my credit card for failing to deliver the services I've already paid for" and suddenly they discover that "oh, actually, we can process the rental without a physical card".

Honestly, I'd rather just carry the plastic card than get that argumentative to win a swinging dick contest. It's really no hardship or risk at all to carry a plastic card. I would actually consider keeping everything including all payment methods on a phone a far bigger risk of loss (and inconvenience if it happens), than just carrying the plastic card in a card wallet (which by the way is far smaller and less noticeable than carrying a phone in your pocket). The other added benefit of a plastic card is that you don't have to be monitoring your battery level and know where you can recharge in a bind if you need to use it.

But I do understand there are desirable senses of superiority people enjoy from using technology that others are not familiar with, so there's that aspect, but at the end of the day, I prefer the method that gets the admin done quicker, so I can just leave and start doing what I'm there for in the first place.

Always remember that NFC/PayPass is not quicker than pin/chip or even mag swipe, if the reader doesn't work first time. What you see in the ad is fantasy, not reality.

 

[Legoman]

the half-hearted attempt by the RBA to stop fee-gouging as well as the change to the issuers being able to freely attempt to turn you into a credit addict with unlimited 'increase your limit' offers.

I well remember thinking to myself when the law was changed to only allow surcharges on card use to be limited to the actual cost of processing card payments, that that was actually a big green light for everyone to start surcharging, where previously many vendors were not even aware that they could charge for such a thing at all. I predicted right there and then, the end result would be a massive increase in surcharging for every little thing. Time has proven me right.

I paid for the priviledge of parking at a DFO the other day to spend money on some new shirts. The parking fee was $3, but that became $3.04 when the card surcharge was added on. I thought quietly to myself, just how petty do organisations really want to be that they need to charge 4c surcharge? But of course they play a numbers game. Plenty of people over history have gotten very, very rich selling lots and lots of very small cheap things to lots and lots of buyers.

It is a curiosity though how legislated changes to supposedly achieve one outcome, actually end up doing the exact opposite. I think that's called the Barbra Streisand effect.

 

[Viridis]

Honestly, I'd rather just carry the plastic card than get that argumentative to win a swinging dick contest. It's really no hardship or risk at all to carry a plastic card. I would actually consider keeping everything including all payment methods on a phone a far bigger risk of loss (and inconvenience if it happens), than just carrying the plastic card in a card wallet (which by the way is far smaller and less noticeable than carrying a phone in your pocket). The other added benefit of a plastic card is that you don't have to be monitoring your battery level and know where you can recharge in a bind if you need to use it.

But I do understand there are desirable senses of superiority people enjoy from using technology that others are not familiar with, so there's that aspect, but at the end of the day, I prefer the method that gets the admin done quicker, so I can just leave and start doing what I'm there for in the first place.

Always remember that NFC/PayPass is not quicker than pin/chip or even mag swipe, if the reader doesn't work first time. What you see in the ad is fantasy, not reality.

Not quite; the security of using a digital wallet is better than a physical card because the actual card number is not used - a device number is. The issuers prefer the use of a digital wallet too.

If you lose your phone, you can remotely wipe it, buy a new one with the standby CCs in your hotel safe and, hey presto, your cards are in the new digital wallet. Much less hassle than waiting for your new card to be sent to your home address 10,000 miles away from where you actually are (Amex excluded)

In principal I can see your point but, mostly, the reason for the discussions with the CSA is either because they are improperly trained or the Company is too lazy to change their processes. Either is frustrating as a customer. It’s 2024 for heaven’s sake

I have my driver’s licence and other professional documents in my phone, my vax certificates, my credit cards, tickets etc etc - now just waiting for my passport and we’re good to go

 

[SYD]

Honestly, I'd rather just carry the plastic card than get that argumentative to win a swinging dick contest. It's really no hardship or risk at all to carry a plastic card. I would actually consider keeping everything including all payment methods on a phone a far bigger risk of loss (and inconvenience if it happens), than just carrying the plastic card in a card wallet (which by the way is far smaller and less noticeable than carrying a phone in your pocket). The other added benefit of a plastic card is that you don't have to be monitoring your battery level and know where you can recharge in a bind if you need to use it.

But I do understand there are desirable senses of superiority people enjoy from using technology that others are not familiar with, so there's that aspect, but at the end of the day, I prefer the method that gets the admin done quicker, so I can just leave and start doing what I'm there for in the first place.

Always remember that NFC/PayPass is not quicker than pin/chip or even mag swipe, if the reader doesn't work first time. What you see in the ad is fantasy, not reality.

I usually carry one plastic CC and one DC when travelling. All cards are on the phone and I use either depending on how I feel at the time..

But interestingly, the new contactless payment on NL trains do not like my physical cards (neither 28° MC nor ING DC) but ApplePay for both work fine.

Probably because of this (was my assumption)…

Not quite; the security of using a digital wallet is better than a physical card because the actual card number is not used - a device number is. The issuers prefer the use of a digital wallet too.

 

[Legoman]

now just waiting for my passport and we’re good to go

I've travelled with Americans and they can get a passport version which looks exactly like a plastic driver's licence card. I asked them about it and was told it's quite new (this was 2 years ago) and it's not really accepted anywhere else outside NA. ie. it can be used to go to/from Canada or Mexico, or possibly Puerto Rico, USVI, Alaska/Hawaii etc. but not really anywhere else yet. The guy I was travelling with just for a laugh presented his to the check-in counter in Barcelona to get on a United or AA flight back to the US. It was swiftly rejected and he had to pull out his blue book version instead.

 

[Legoman]

But interestingly, the new contactless payment on NL trains do not like my physical cards (neither 28° MC nor ING DC) but ApplePay for both work fine.

I very much doubt there is a deliberate strategy to obsolete real plastic cards due to security concerns yet. That would be an extremely bold move indeed to roll out into the wild like a public transport network without a very serious public education campaign beforehand. Digital cards and wallets might be a fully accepted payment method in your world right now, but trust me, they're no where near being that yet for 99.9% of everyone else.

 

[BJReplay]

It's really no hardship or risk at all to carry a plastic card.

The risk of the plastic card is that the numbers are breached, and then you have to cancel the card.

Or you lose the card from your wallet, and you have to cancel the card.

I lost a card from my wallet in Changi airport on my last trip, and was desperately trying to block the card on dodgy WiFi (from my phone, that I wasn't feeling any desirable senses of superiority while doing it, just desperation trying to ensure that I had lost a piece of plastic that could be tapped at multiple airport outlets for $200 a pop with no ID and no verification.

If I'd lost my wallet with several cards, that would have stuffed up my entire trip.

If I'd lost my phone, I would have bought another and re-enabled my wallet.

What you see in the ad is fantasy, not reality.

No, the reality is that I need to prove I'm using my phone with biometrics for every purchase, so if I lose my phone, I don't lose any money.

Tap and pay with my phone is just as fast as tap and pay with a card and I don't know where you got the idea that I suggested it was faster or better, and I get no sense of superiority from it, just confidence that there is no risk of me having to cancel my card because my phone has been breached, and if the vendors IT systems are breached, they only have the google pay card ID, not my credit card ID.

So, what is desirable is security.

 

[Flashback]

I usually carry one plastic CC and one DC when travelling. All cards are on the phone and I use either depending on how I feel at the time..

But interestingly, the new contactless payment on NL trains do not like my physical cards (neither 28° MC nor ING DC) but ApplePay for both work fine.

Probably because of this (was my assumption)…

The Dutch in general are a bit funny with card acceptance....... it's the same for purchasing tickets too.

 

[BJReplay]

now just waiting for my passport and we’re good to go

And with biometrics at some airports, even if you need to carry your passport, you may not need to get it out of your wallet or bag all that often.

The experience returning to Melbourne is now pretty good - first gate checks your passport, second gate opens on biometrics only.

Knowing that it is possible to do away with the passport entirely - at least in theory - does make for intersecting possibilities.

 

[Legoman]

If I'd lost my wallet with several cards, that would have stuffed up my entire trip.

If I'd lost my phone, I would have bought another and re-enabled my wallet.

Haha, you make me laugh in exactly the same way as Albo does when he says everyone is going to buy an EV and then charge it at home overnight for free from the solar panels on their roof.

Who, pray tell, is going to sell you a new phone, when you have lost the very device you need that holds all your payment methods to pay for it? There's something quite critical missing in the logic stream of your proposal here. You're gonna need a really good Fox, Chicken and bag of grain crossing a river conundrum solution here to solve this riddle.

 

[Viridis]

Who, pray tell, is going to sell you a new phone, when you have lost the very device you need that holds all your payment methods to pay for it?

Physical credit cards left in the room safe at the hotel …. as a back-up. My daughter did just that in Germany last year

 

[SYD]

I very much doubt there is a deliberate strategy to obsolete real plastic cards due to security concerns yet. That would be an extremely bold move indeed to roll out into the wild like a public transport network without a very serious public education campaign beforehand.

Not suggesting there is but the fact is they don’t accept physical cards. Maybe it’s an OS issued card thing and local cards are ok?

You can probably buy a ticket from a human and handover cash or card but the contactless payment at the barriers is only taking ApplePay / Apple Watch and equivalents. They still have OV-Chipkaarts and I used my last balance before that card expires (another scam €5 for a card every 5yrs and unused balance can only be credited to a Dutch bank account…).

Digital cards and wallets might be a fully accepted payment method in your world right now, but trust me, they're no where near being that yet for 99.9% of everyone else.

Also, as I said - I carry both phone and physical for when one or other doesn’t work. Lots of places don’t take virtual cards.

 

[SYD]

The Dutch in general are a bit funny with card acceptance....... it's the same for purchasing tickets too.

I don’t recall having issues in the past (as a regular visitor for work and pleasure). I do recall places around the world not liking tap but inserting the physical card and entering the pin usually worked.

In the case of trams and trains in the NL, there’s nowhere to insert the card other than maybe at a ticket office (and it used to cost more).

 

[Flashback]

I don’t recall having issues in the past (as a regular visitor for work and pleasure). I do recall places around the world not liking tap but inserting the physical card and entering the pin usually worked.

In the case of trams and trains in the NL, there’s nowhere to insert the card other than maybe at a ticket office (and it used to cost more).

I had one trip where the lady at Utrecht station would let me use it one day, and not the next. Same ticket, same lady, same card. Went over to another window, she let me use it, didn't work; but oddly did the first day. Always had issues in NL...... @Mattg lived there for a while, so can probably confirm/back that up too.

 

[SYD]

I had one trip where the lady at Utrecht station would let me use it one day, and not the next. Same ticket, same lady, same card. Went over to another window, she let me use it, didn't work; but oddly did the first day. Always had issues in NL...... @Mattg lived there for a while, so can probably confirm/back that up too.

Totally OT but I was just in Utrecht today!

 

[Legoman]

Not suggesting there is but the fact is they don’t accept physical cards.

The way you say that makes it sound like there are actual signs or pictograms near the readers indicating in no uncertain terms not to even try using an actual card, because we don't accept them. Is that the real case, or is it more along the lines of… I presented my Australian bank issued card from an unknown in Europe bank to the reader and it made a deep Ba-Bong sound and rejected my attempted payment?

You can see there's a big difference between those two scenarios. If there truly are pictograms up as signage with images of generic VISA and Mastercard logos in red circles with diagonal lines through them, right alongside pictograms of generic Apple devices with green ticks next to them at the readers, then that would be something I have not seen anywhere before outside of an Apple Store. I can only surmise there's been some sort of a sponsorship arrangement between Apple Corporation and that particular public transport network to force only one payment method. Kind of like when VISA or Mastercard sponsor something like The World Cup or Olympics and make it a condition of sponsorship that the only card that can be used for payment in the event village is theirs, exclusively.

 

[BJReplay]

Who, pray tell, is going to sell you a new phone, when you have lost the very device you need that holds all your payment methods to pay for it?

Anyone who is selling to allow my darling wife to pay for a new phone for me. Or as someone else already pointed out, I'll get the credit card that I've already said I have, but don't carry on my person every moment of the day.

Look, you do you (as, obviously you do), and I'll do me, (as obviously I will), but trying to tell other people that phones are less secure, or cards have less risk is misleading.

I've been travelling without cash for years now - yes, even in the US - and as I've previously said, even though I travel with physical cards, just in case, I don't carry them or use them.

 

[Catweazle]

Haven't held it as long, but only got it for its FX fee free feature. As my NAB card, Velocity earning card also has this now, 28 degrees can go.

What would you recommend for fee-free spending in NZD$?

Is there a QFF card to sign up to, or should I pre-purchase some NZD$ cash before departure?

It's been ages since I traveled overseas so things have changed a lot since then, as we see here.

Maybe the QFF Money Pay card is what we need?

 

[SYD]

What would you recommend for fee-free spending in NZD$?

As mentioned earlier, plenty of fee free Debit Card options eg UBank

Is there a QFF card to sign up to, or should I pre-purchase some NZD$ cash before departure?

QF earn cards are becoming scarce.

I personally wouldn’t “pre-purchase” NZD. You’ll get a cough exchange rate.

Otherwise, bite the bullet and use a regular earn card and take the 3% fee (you’ll still get the spot rate plus fee and be no worse off than getting cash in advance).

Cash from an ATM would be better than pre-purchase.

It's been ages since I traveled overseas so things have changed a lot since then, as we see here.

But, NZ is pretty much cashless - so do get a DC and/or CC.

Maybe the QFF Money Pay card is what we need?

Lousy exchange rate and bugger all earn is not worth it.