Laundering FF points

[lovestotravel]

It seems to be a complicated way to get $1,320 of points!

Depends how you value 132000 points!

I value them at more like $10,000

 

[medhead]

Oh easy , what's your email and i'll send it off to you right now

Yuri.Geller@freeenergy .com

Medhead Im not sure you understand the way odds shorten. If a bet only pays out $1.01 its because everyone has put their money on that bet to pay out, so the bookie has to shorten the odds to limit their loss liability should it pay out as there hasn't been any or enough money put on the contra position to hedge him out.

Maybe your right I only got a distinction for probability and statistics at uni. very disappointing for a physics major and maths minor. But enough of that rubbish.

I think you have just stated exactly my point. The bookie is not going to pay out money that someone else hasn't bet on the contra position. If you are getting paid more than you bet then someone else has bet on the contra position, the bookie is not a charity just giving out free cash. Now that is the basis my wife's point (that I picked up), for you to win someone has lost. If no one else has bet the contra position then you will only get your money back i.e. $1.

Of course the TAB is different as they take a cut before determining the odds. But there was the famous case of Qld TAB having a minimum odds guarantee a few years ago which resulted in some pretty dodgy occurrences on certain secondary small time races.

BTW if I was being provocative I might even say that I know more about how odds work if you think that you are going to get paid more than you bet if no one else bet the contra position.

 

[harvyk]

If no one else has bet the contra position then you will only get your money back i.e. $1.

Whilst I personally think the idea is very risky for a very small reward, if the bookie simply gives you your money back then you've got what you wanted, 132,000 FF points for no cost.

 

[medhead]

Whilst I personally think the idea is very risky for a very small reward, if the bookie simply gives you your money back then you've got what you wanted, 132,000 FF points for no cost.

Indeed, but then that is almost the definition of no risk. There is also the bookies margin, again they aren't a charity so they have to make money as well.

 

[Will]

Interesting!

Sounds well thought-through.

3 comments:

1. Some bookies have a sign-up bonus of 5,10, even 20%. If you put your deposit in, and get that bonus, a 1% return becomes a 21% return. Worth watching out for!

2. I remember winning $10 off a $1000 bet, when the Australian cricket team defeated the USA cricket team some years ago. There are plenty of near-sure-thing bets around.

3. It may be possible for you to bet,eg, $100,000, on a single horse race, dividing up your bets so as to return $98,000 no matter who wins the race (obviously you'd need to tweak the maths and it depends on the edge, etc). If you value the 100,000 points as worth more than $2,000 (or whatever), then you have an absolutely guaranteed profit.


Happy betting!

 

[cove]

Well Will a lot of us have a surcharge cost limit of about 1 per cent to gain a point and others who will pay zero.
Then the game becomes the search for a benefit beyond that cost and that is very personal.
Many would not pony up 2 per cent unless they were short of a few points.

 

[sr81]

Hmmm, I get what Will is talking about by pretty much boxing the field and just squaring yourself off.

At the moment though you can buy 100,000 USAirways miles for about AUD1600 and I would argue that these are more useful when you can get a round trip to Europe in J for 120,000 miles.

Back on topic. The risk factor is just to high here for points as your only reward. They are intangible and have no real value until use and even then their value is questionable. I would be not be re-mortgaging the house for this scheme but fair play to the OP - it is courageous.

 

[hedge]

Correct me if im wrong...

but when you withdraw the money from the betting agency, it will be treated as a refund and you will go into negative points on many cards.

Or does the NAB visa not go into negative points balances?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

The withdrawl would need to not be a reversal.

Reversals will always result in the points being reversed as well.

 

[hedge]

Right. That's not how my cfd provider played it. But this might be different since its a different amount being sent to your cc compared to what you paid.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Right. That's not how my cfd provider played it. But this might be different since its a different amount being sent to your cc compared to what you paid.

I assume that it is one reason why a bet actually has to take place. As then it is payment out, rather than a reversal (assuming that it goes back to CC).

Payments into cards do not reverse points, only reversals do.
Payments have nil effect.

I would also assume that withouta bet that the booki/agency would not take kindly to payments in and out from a CC as I assume that they like any business would be oayinga % fee to the CC provider.

 

[drewbles]

Online betting agencies have to pay tax based on deposits and turnover, so they require you to bet your deposits to give them a chance to make some cash from you, otherwise they would not make a cent. This was what one of my contacts from one of the largest online betting places told me.

This would be why you can't just deposit and withdraw a lesser amount than you deposit, thereby getting around the same-amount-refunded-as-deposited.

They're a business too

They also need to recoup their Merchant fees for deposits. I'm sure that's all factored in to their payouts though.

 

[medhead]

I assume that it is one reason why a bet actually has to take place. As then it is payment out, rather than a reversal (assuming that it goes back to CC).

Payments into cards do not reverse points, only reversals do.
Payments have nil effect.

I would also assume that withouta bet that the booki/agency would not take kindly to payments in and out from a CC as I assume that they like any business would be oayinga % fee to the CC provider.

The payment from the bet agency doesn't have to be onto the card once a bet has been made as it would not be a reversal or refund.

 

[one9]

Hi,

Now that the election is over, are there still any similar 1.01 bets? Or can this only be done at elections?

 

[extracta]

What would happen if the betting agency went broke that day..... or

Your sure bet gets drunk the night before and tells everyone they hate them....etc etc

IMHO too much money to risk for too little reward.

 

[uzza]

Pretty nice idea actually!

However have you actually tried it yet or is it just an idea?

Just my 2 cents (having worked for a betting agency, dealt with large bets and having been witness to dealings with the particular agency mentioned by the OP from the agency side):

1. Finding the betting companies and cards that treat the CC deposit as a purchase and not cash advance would be pretty difficult I would have thought. We treated it like a cash advance off cards, (and a little OT, Bankwest and Citi would block deposit requests off their cards to our betting agency). We had plenty of disgruntled punters getting slugged cash advance fees when they thought they were just like a purchase.

2. Large turnover like that would trigger alarm bells from both the bank and gambling agency. Once some investigations were done you may find that either the bank/gambling company may put a premature end to proceedings. “Whale” sized deposits from average punters not known to anyone in the industry would warrant a look from the back end and most likely contact from a client manager.

3. $200k on a 1.01 in a lump sum may be hard; the bookies are not usually willing to take the best because it’s not in their interests. They know the score and the likely outcomes and are seldom willing to take a bet that size on such a sure thing, despite their liability only being $2k it’s just not worth it. I have seen bets not even that big on sure things (1.05 and less) flat out rejected even when the client is a "whale". You would have better luck spreading the bets smaller across a number of low odd bets to both a) get the bets on, b) divisify the risk.

4. Once the funds are turned over, the "credit" balance of the betting account (the amount of funds deposited by CC not turned over) will be zero, so a cheque/EFT withdrawal will be ok. Not refunds/withdrawal to card issues there.

I'm certainly not saying you couldn't do it, however the logistics and inevitable investigation by both the bank and bookie may put an end to it. Something within their T's&C's that gives them the right to terminate the account/card at their discretion may be invoked (think improper use).

 

[Alanslegal]

Correct me if im wrong...

but when you withdraw the money from the betting agency, it will be treated as a refund and you will go into negative points on many cards.

Or does the NAB visa not go into negative points balances?

In my gaming account, funds are returned into a savings account.

Also my credit card deposits are not treated as a cash advance and given the upto 55 days interest free periods.

 

[mockandco]

It’s an interesting way of doing it, but even at the low risk, seems like it’d be an adrenalin rush before you got the money safely back.

"Hey Honey, I have some great news.... I have enough points for us to fly business class on our holiday to the Gold Coast this year. One tiny problem...... we need to sell the house on our return".

 

[ozstamps]

The older ones here wiill understand this phrase -

"REMEMBER THE BUS"?

QF might confiscate the lot, PLUS all the other miles you have as well - it has occurred before, but I digress ................

=================

Risk $200,000 on a 'sure thing.'

To win 2K and some miles?

Every bookie in the world thrives as "sure things" are not always that sure.

You have a chance to lose the LOT.

Slim... YES, but possible all the same.

A far wiser tactic is to buy $US200,000 of travellers cheques from Travelex or someone who gives miles.

Sure you wear a few % screw on the rate.

HOWEVER you still own $US200,000,and you get your 200,000 miles for sure.

The mere fact near every Bell Hop is talking parity means it will not occur fast.

Seeing a minor dip to .95 would see you in front if you cashed out.

Back to 90c .. where it was VERY recently, and you are in serious profit. AND get points too on the sale side I think too.

So near zero risk of being behind if you can hold for a month or two, and NO chance or losing the lot.

Glen

 

[mockandco]

Nice suggestion Glen.

Even better buy Pounds Sterling T/C 's

Costs $AUD 1.65 to buy a pound at the moment.
Not so long ago it was nudging $AUD 3.00.

gk