LHR T5 Galleries access denied for additional child guest

[ozmille]

Given that there are multiple lounges at T5, and people do regularly move from one lounge to another, what would stop this scenario:
1. Mum and Dad take the two youngest children into Galleries North; oldest child waits just outside (NB: not in the lounge reception area)
2. After 10 minutes, Dad exits, collects oldest child and proceeds to Galleries South, where he enters with oldest child.

Yes, it means the family is split over the two lounges, which is not ideal, but it means they all get in somewhere. It would be even more convenient if one of the parents was a WP; then you could split the family between Galleries First and Galleries South, both in the same 'complex' of lounges at the southern end.

There is one member here that I know of who has successfully done this

 

[dfcatch]

Thanks, that's what I was referring to. It specifically says BA owned lounges, rather than flights only. Which was my point.


Sent from the Throne

My apologies.

I stand corrected - the QF web page has recently changed.

According to the current page (as quoted) - access should have been provided.

OP had two eligible members and two eligible guests plus the one child guest which, according the posted rules on QF - should have been permitted.

This being the case changes my view completely on the issue.

 

[eastwest101]

Yes - the interesting thing is that if access should have been provided and was wrongly denied by BA - then the OP or his friend really has no recourse now. After all - they have now finished their journey and are unlikely to use BA facilities again. I guess they could try to get recourse through QF but if BA are not honouring an access agreement or are hiding behing their own rules what can QF realisticly do about it? Not a lot it seems.

 

[AndyQB]

My daughter (11) has just received an email entitled "Exciting news and offers for families" suggesting that she enrol her children for free before the end of May. It also has this to say about lounges (with a link to those new guidelines):

Improvements to the Qantas Lounge Access Policy for families

Qantas Lounges welcome you when travelling with your family˜. In addition to your normal guest allowance, you may also bring up to two children aged between 3 and 17 into lounges operated by Qantas. There are no limitations for infants under 3 years of age. If you are travelling with more than two children, the Qantas lounge manager will try to accommodate them, subject to reviewing the space available in the lounge.

˜ Qantas Lounges: Children of Qantas Club members aged 18 years and over are counted as a guest of a member if they don't have their own membership. The service of alcohol to anyone under the age of 18 years (21 years for USA) is not permitted. BA and oneworld lounges: When entering a British Airways or oneworld lounge, children over 12 years of age are counted as a guest and access is limited accordingly. This is with the exception of the oneworld Los Angeles Tom Bradley Lounge where Qantas Club members may be accompanied by two children up to 18 years of age in addition to their counted guests. Associated lounges: Associated lounges are in ports that Qantas flies to but where it does not operate its own lounge. Our associated lounges are operated by, or on behalf of, other airlines and the child policy varies according to the lounge policy of the particular lounge. For more information, visit qantas.com

 

[MEL_Traveller]

My apologies.

I stand corrected - the QF web page has recently changed.

According to the current page (as quoted) - access should have been provided.

OP had two eligible members and two eligible guests plus the one child guest which, according the posted rules on QF - should have been permitted.

This being the case changes my view completely on the issue.

Yes - the interesting thing is that if access should have been provided and was wrongly denied by BA - then the OP or his friend really has no recourse now. After all - they have now finished their journey and are unlikely to use BA facilities again. I guess they could try to get recourse through QF but if BA are not honouring an access agreement or are hiding behing their own rules what can QF realisticly do about it? Not a lot it seems.

That one interpretation of the rule.

The other, equally valid, is that guests are only over 12 years. If they are under 12 they are children. Only one child is allowed riding on the eligible adult's entry.

I tend to think it is the latter as this is what happened... maybe something to do with families managing their children (one adult per child, but over 12 they can be responsible themselves)

 

[Origin]

I note that Qantas has changed the rules today ( just got the email) and members can bring 2 children under 17 years old into their lounges in addition to your normal guest/s allowance. If you have more than 2 children they may allow depending on space in the lounge.

 

[eastwest101]

My daughter (11) has just received an email entitled "Exciting news and offers for families"....

Improvements to the Qantas Lounge Access Policy for families

Qantas Lounges welcome you when travelling with your family˜. In addition to your normal guest allowance, you may also bring up to two children aged between 3 and 17 into lounges operated by Qantas. There are no limitations for infants under 3 years of age. If you are travelling with more than two children, the Qantas lounge manager will try to accommodate them, subject to reviewing the space available in the lounge.

˜ Qantas Lounges: Children of Qantas Club members aged 18 years and over are counted as a guest of a member if they don't have their own membership. The service of alcohol to anyone under the age of 18 years (21 years for USA) is not permitted. BA and oneworld lounges: When entering a British Airways or oneworld lounge, children over 12 years of age are counted as a guest and access is limited accordingly. This is with the exception of the oneworld Los Angeles etc

Thanks for the timely info AndyQB

The good is that we seem to have some new and better clarification. The bad is that the OP's friend would now seem to fall foul of the new entry requirements - having 3 kids for 2 adults.

But seeing as this is new and amended info then that strongly suggests that the OP's friend's family was wrongly denied access back around the 1st or 2nd of April.

 

[simongr]

If this is their intent then they need to explicitly state that children under 18 are not considered guests or counted within your guest entitlement.

From a benefit perspective if you have two WPs travelling together you can now take six "people" (large and small) into the lounge.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Thanks for the timely info AndyQB

The good is that we seem to have some new and better clarification. The bad is that the OP's friend would now seem to fall foul of the new entry requirements - having 3 kids for 2 adults.

But seeing as this is new and amended info then that strongly suggests that the OP's friend's family was wrongly denied access back around the 1st or 2nd of April.

I'm not sure of the date of the wording for the BA lounge access (over 12) but we have been discussing this wording since about page two...

 

[amaroo]

That one interpretation of the rule.

The other, equally valid, is that guests are only over 12 years. If they are under 12 they are children. Only one child is allowed riding on the eligible adult's entry.

I tend to think it is the latter as this is what happened... maybe something to do with families managing their children (one adult per child, but over 12 they can be responsible themselves)

Once again - I agree with you.

 

[Warks]

I was a bit surprised at the email. I've always thought I could take the kiddies into the QP.
Is it just when it's full they kick you out? It was pretty damn full in LAX a couple of years ago but they let us all in there.

 

[dfcatch]

That one interpretation of the rule.

The other, equally valid, is that guests are only over 12 years. If they are under 12 they are children. Only one child is allowed riding on the eligible adult's entry.

I tend to think it is the latter as this is what happened... maybe something to do with families managing their children (one adult per child, but over 12 they can be responsible themselves)

No - I don't read it like that at all - not even slightly.

It's crystal clear to me that you are entitled to your guest entitlement. You are then allowed a "child" in addition to your guest allowance.

The age specification IMO clearly states that the "child" must be under 12 to qualify as the "child" "in addition to your guest allowance".

Ie. you get two guests (age is irrelevant), AND you can have a "child" in addition as long as the child is under 12.

IF they were over 12 then they would be a "guest" not a child.


I think you are reading into something that is not stated at all.

 

[oz_mark]

The age specification IMO clearly states that the "child" must be under 12 to qualify as the "child" "in addition to your guest allowance".

<..>

I think you are reading into something that is not stated at all.

I'm actually with MEL_Traveller.

The issue is that the words "in addition to your guest allowance" do not occur in relation to BA or oneworld access. It is part of the sentence that ends "into lounges operated by Qantas".

 

[Princess Fiona]

Thanks for the timely info AndyQB

The good is that we seem to have some new and better clarification. The bad is that the OP's friend would now seem to fall foul of the new entry requirements - having 3 kids for 2 adults.

But seeing as this is new and amended info then that strongly suggests that the OP's friend's family was wrongly denied access back around the 1st or 2nd of April.

Is it just me or does anyone else have serious doubts over the QF new access policy for families in BA Lounges?
I cannot believe that QF have managed to negotiate very generous access to BA lounges for families. This access is ( if confirmed) greater than that currently given to BA's own elites !!!
After all, it took QF close to 5 months to partially restore access to BA lounges for their paid adult members.
As I said previously I think something is far wrong here and there is some creative thinking going on at QF.
The only reference currently on BA.com to child guests in Lounges refers to GCH and SCH being able to guest 1 child between 5 and 12 even if their child is in a different cabin.
It does not say this child is an additional guest.
The only previous references to children in the BA Lounge related to infants under 2 not counting as a guest.
At best I think QF might be able to secure LHR T3 Family access on QF metal.
Of course I would be VERY happy to be wrong on this speculation

 

[eastwest101]

I agree Princess Fiona - it is very confusing - either

1. QF has negotiated a family access policy to BA lounges that is superior to BA's own elites

or

2. the published family access is only applicable to lounges operated by QF. If this is the case then we are still guessing about BA's policy - because as you correctly point out - it is almost impossible to get any specific information from the BA or OW web sites. From others posts it may all hang on the exact definitions of the phrase "in addition" and the words "child" and "guest"

medhead is arguing that the child allowance does not extinguish the guest allowance but I suspect that BA are trying to do so.

 

[docjames]

Is it just me or does anyone else have serious doubts over the QF new access policy for families in BA Lounges?
I cannot believe that QF have managed to negotiate very generous access to BA lounges for families. This access is ( if confirmed) greater than that currently given to BA's own elites !!!
After all, it took QF close to 5 months to partially restore access to BA lounges for their paid adult members.
As I said previously I think something is far wrong here and there is some creative thinking going on at QF.
The only reference currently on BA.com to child guests in Lounges refers to GCH and SCH being able to guest 1 child between 5 and 12 even if their child is in a different cabin.
It does not say this child is an additional guest.
The only previous references to children in the BA Lounge related to infants under 2 not counting as a guest.
At best I think QF might be able to secure LHR T3 Family access on QF metal.
Of course I would be VERY happy to be wrong on this speculation

I think QF have been reading this thread and are as confused as everyone else.

 

[amaroo]

The following is from BA website:-

Making a booking for your infant or child

How old is an infant or a child?

Infants: 0 - 23 months
You must always have a ticket for your infant's journey.
Children: 2 - 11 years

Also from the website:-

Booking a child into a different cabin from yourself

There are times when you might need to travel in a different cabin to your child, and you can do this on British Airways. If your child is already 12 years old, you can make your child's booking on ba.com.
If your child is between five and 12 years of age:

• Your child can be booked into any cabin once you are booked to travel on the same flight.
• You should stay with your child until they are taken into the care of British Airways’ staff at the boarding gate.
• If you are a Gold or Silver Executive Club Member, you will be able to take your child as a guest into the lounge. However Club World, Club Europe and First class customers may only use the lounge for themselves.

Please contact British Airways to make this booking if your child is under 12 years.


And more:-

Please note:
Whilst we retain overall Duty of Care after your child has checked in for the flight, you will still be responsible for their health, well-being and behaviour, both on the ground and on board.

.......IMO, they are clearly stating that a child is aged under 12 (like all airlines) however, they go on and state the rules for access for elite card holders & standard passengers traveling with kids.

BA clearly have a dislike for children in their lounges and as someone who has recently (this year) traveled with kids with BA in F - I can back this up with first hand experience.

 

[Princess Fiona]

The following is from BA website:-

Making a booking for your infant or child

How old is an infant or a child?

Infants: 0 - 23 months
You must always have a ticket for your infant's journey.
Children: 2 - 11 years

Also from the website:-

Booking a child into a different cabin from yourself

There are times when you might need to travel in a different cabin to your child, and you can do this on British Airways. If your child is already 12 years old, you can make your child's booking on ba.com.
If your child is between five and 12 years of age:

• Your child can be booked into any cabin once you are booked to travel on the same flight.
• You should stay with your child until they are taken into the care of British Airways&rsquo; staff at the boarding gate.
• If you are a Gold or Silver Executive Club Member, you will be able to take your child as a guest into the lounge. However Club World, Club Europe and First class customers may only use the lounge for themselves.

Please contact British Airways to make this booking if your child is under 12 years.


And more:-

Please note:
Whilst we retain overall Duty of Care after your child has checked in for the flight, you will still be responsible for their health, well-being and behaviour, both on the ground and on board.

.......IMO, they are clearly stating that a child is aged under 12 (like all airlines) however, they go on and state that the rules for access for elite card holders & standard passengers traveling with kids.

BA clearly have a dislike for children in their lounges and as someone who has recently (this year) traveled with kids with BA in F - I can back this up with first hand experience.

Spot on Amaroo, and as posted up thread this is where I think the QF website info has come from

 

[JohnM]

Ooh, my head is spinning!

In a change of tack and as the OP, I'm happy to report that my friends are now happily ensconced in CPH for the 6-month sabbatical of the male member of the family.

I don't know how, and I'm not going to speculate, they managed to get all three children cleaned up and fed in the lounge. What I do know is that they did have a very long layover because of the fares they had purchased. That long layover was in itself a reason why they were so keen on lounge access and why mother friend bought a QP membership.

Somehow, I think it will be prudent for me to say nothing about my access to the BA F lounges in T5 & T3 as I flit in and out of LHR a couple of times on my DONE5, including a visit to them, in August-October .

I'll be solo so I can guest at T5 early morning 5 Sept., around midday at T3 on 10 Sept. and around midday at T5 on 20 Sept.

Just don't bring any kids :mrgreen:.

 

[rechoboam]

Still going. Gee. Can't you borrow another child, put them all in dark glasses and claim they are One Direction?