Looking for demographic info on Jetstar Business class passengers

[moa999]

I have actually seen a 37% increase in people self funding J travel on LCC style carriers

And I got called rude!!

 

[anchew]

i'm trying to test a hypthesis that the demo is changing from special occassion leisure travellers who had never or rarely travelled BC before - to a new market segment of occassional to regular BC travellers who will pay for BC seats for their own leisure travel

Interesting. So what's the theory behind this hypothesis?

 

[SeatBackForward]

I have actually seen a 37% increase in people self funding J travel on LCC style carriers - pax who ordinarily would fly J for Business through company funded travel and historically due the lack of affordable premium travel would have flown in whY. I forecast a 73% increase in this style of travel as these groups age into their middle years before retirement and thus have greater disposable income as the mortgage repayments decline as a % of disposable income (assuming no increase in property size as children leave home). Those same individuals are less likely to change vehicles as frequently (lower propensity for best and newest) and no longer have to fund children on vacation thus a family vacation for four to HNL in whY becomes a couple's vacation to HNL in LCC J (Jlite) that also assists in funding cheaper overseas purchases of clothing and consumer goods which further offsets the cost of the trip.

Aside from the % I would challenge most people to challenge the factual accuracy of the above.

So are we talking a total of 110% growth? or a total of 64% growth?

 

[SARoberts]

Have you looked through all the material on this page: The 2011 databook was an interesting flick through. I'm sure the break up into business/ecnonony and business/leisure (how would they know anyhow? they dont ask when you book online) is commercially sensitive and wouldn't be easily published.

thanks - yes I have - I devoured them whole - it was suggested that QFF info would have it - given that so many people are members - the airlines themselves conduct many surveys - but i am specifically interested in international flights which do have all that information collected and given to ?someone? - in australia it's the ABS but they don't break the data down into the groups I need - they offered to do it as a once off - I think it was about $15,000 :-o

yeah - that would be nice wouldn't it - too time consuming - my ability to run the stats and come up with the marketing plan is really the point in question - so I was hoping for some 'quick n dirty' data

i'm running a hideous array of correlative and means variation analysis - blech!

ROTFLOL thanks simongr - don't think i haven't considered it - i'm just using myself and a few people i work with an an initial sample for the hypo - we travel bc occassionally with work and now travel bc every possible time for leisuire - i'm possibly jetstar's most FF to short haul asian holiday destinations - i contend however that there legroom is sufficient for poepl who are accustomed to FSC bc

remove one row of seats Jetstar!

apologies if you hadn't intended 'tone' with the double punctuation - i read too much into it

Yet they say the "i" generation don't know how to do real work..

ah! generational profiling - you're assuming facts not in evidence - grumpy baby boomer

This is actually a good idea - well not the fabrication of data - but why not use flyertalk and/or this forum as your data? You could quite easily run a search for words such as "jetstar" and "business", "jetstar" and "starclass", etc. Obviously the data may be a little skewed due to the abnormal population using this site, but at least the data aren't contrived.

thanks wingspan - that's what i was doing when i decided to just post a question and see what popped up

you want abnormal ... i also got sucked into the 'don't fly jetstar' freakshow blogfest site - it's like reality tv *visceral horror*

so what do you think - have you travelled jetstar bc - do you think that having previously travelled FSC bc makes you more or less likely to appreciate the price/comfort balance of the product mix?

I'm about to fly Jetstar for the very first time ever, in business to HNL. Not really looking forward to it But what QF charge for J on that route is ridiculous.

go into it with an open mind and think about the cost benefit - it is just like old school bc with sadly less leg room - on a short-haul it's great - great bubbles, usually reasonable food, good service, enough entertainment - row 1 rocks if you can get it - 1E is my fave for a 5-across row or 1b for a 6 across - happy trails

I don't think we are doing this the right way. Firstly, decide on what you want the answer you want to be. Only after that, you can go find/twist/fabricate things as required.

you're obviously an academic

I have actually seen a 37% increase in people self funding J travel on LCC style carriers - pax who ordinarily would fly J for Business through company funded travel and historically due the lack of affordable premium travel would have flown in whY. I forecast a 73% increase in this style of travel as these groups age into their middle years before retirement and thus have greater disposable income as the mortgage repayments decline as a % of disposable income (assuming no increase in property size as children leave home). Those same individuals are less likely to change vehicles as frequently (lower propensity for best and newest) and no longer have to fund children on vacation thus a family vacation for four to HNL in whY becomes a couple's vacation to HNL in LCC J (Jlite) that also assists in funding cheaper overseas purchases of clothing and consumer goods which further offsets the cost of the trip.

Aside from the % I would challenge most people to challenge the factual accuracy of the above.

i agree entirely with your points - with the further point that more people like me are also doing it - with their comfortable level of discretionary spending but without quite enough fly-time to tip over into solid gold points territory - for example - i will save like crazy to fly bc to europe for a month as the length of holiday/cost of airfare seems reasonable - but for a one week mini holiday in asia i can't justify FSC bc but can afford to fly LCC bc without even thinking about it

now if i can just find some academically acceptable way to quote you ..... i don't suppose you've been published anywhere?

ok - i'm going to do some work now .....

but if anyone has any opinions - on topic - that they would like to share - could you please consider the following ....

have you travelled jetstar bc - do you think that having previously travelled FSC bc makes you more or less likely to appreciate the price/comfort balance of the LCC bc product mix? would you travel LCC bc again on a short haul holiday?

many many thanks to all who responded - i appreciate your time and humour

 

[harvyk]

You've actually picked a very difficult survey topic, as the airlines themselves don't really know the answer. To them, I'm simply a pax who has rocked up in jeans and a T-Shirt. They have no knowledge of the purpose of my trip, nor do they really care, all they care about is that I am going from A to B and I've chosen them to do that for me.

You'll probably find that they classify people as business or leisure traveller based on destination (so flights to holiday destinations, it will be assumed most pax are leisure travellers), and they may also look at who paid for the ticket (so if a company brought the ticket, they would mark them off as business traveller). But beyond that, short of asking every pax the purpose of their trip and recording that information down, the airlines themselves don't really know.

Forums such as this are not really a good indication either, as any answers we give would be very skewed by the fact that quite a few people here "work the system" and thus may not place the same value on a J flight (hello points) which the general public would do. Reading through these forums one would think virtually everyone only flies J or F with Y being the anomaly, obviously with the sheer number of Y seats vs J and F the airlines themselves prove this is not true.

 

[SARoberts]

You've actually picked a very difficult survey topic, as the airlines themselves don't really know the answer. To them, I'm simply a pax who has rocked up in jeans and a T-Shirt. They have no knowledge of the purpose of my trip, nor do they really care, all they care about is that I am going from A to B and I've chosen them to do that for me.

You'll probably find that they classify people as business or leisure traveller based on destination (so flights to holiday destinations, it will be assumed most pax are leisure travellers), and they may also look at who paid for the ticket (so if a company brought the ticket, they would mark them off as business traveller). But beyond that, short of asking every pax the purpose of their trip and recording that information down, the airlines themselves don't really know.

Forums such as this are not really a good indication either, as any answers we give would be very skewed by the fact that quite a few people here "work the system" and thus may not place the same value on a J flight (hello points) which the general public would do. Reading through these forums one would think virtually everyone only flies J or F with Y being the anomaly, obviously with the sheer number of Y seats vs J and F the airlines themselves prove this is not true.

thanks harvyk - the data i need comes from international passenger cards - doesn't anyone work for the ABS?

 

[lovestotravel]

It's more that people are wanting to travel Y+ and not Y

Keeping in mind J fares are 1/2 what they used to be for international flights on the decent carriers

Jetstar is not "Business class" by any stretch of the imagination when compared to long-haul business class

Jetstar "Business Class" is really a Y+ international product, or a J domestic product at best

 

[SeatBackForward]

thanks harvyk - the data i need comes from international passenger cards - doesn't anyone work for the ABS?

Those cards don't ask you whether you're flying y, Y+, J, F or hanging onto the wings..

 

[SARoberts]

It's more that people are wanting to travel Y+ and not Y

Keeping in mind J fares are 1/2 what they used to be for international flights on the decent carriers

Jetstar is not "Business class" by any stretch of the imagination when compared to long-haul business class

Jetstar "Business Class" is really a Y+ international product, or a J domestic product at best

absolutely - but do you think it's worth the price - in light of your 'informed' expectations as a previous bc traveller?

 

[lovestotravel]

absolutely - but do you think it's worth the price - in light of your 'informed' expectations as a previous bc traveller?

Hawaiian airlines is $3800 return in J
Jetstar is $3600 when you select the Status Credits and QFF earning option, $3200 otherwise

Is Jetstar Y+ worth $3600 = NO

Hawaiian gives you an extra 8inches of pitch and the new A330's are nice from all reports. Full seat-back IFE and not a pathetic portable media player. Of course Jetstar have at least 1 x A330 with seatback TV's

Now Hawaiian call their product "First Class" which is again, when compared to major carriers, not a first class product, but for the "hawaiian market" it makes sense.

My next flight to Hawaii is on Hawaiian, I have no reason to support Jetstar anymore.

But is it really worth $3800 on Hawaiian for the product - No again but I don't like Y....

 

[Awesom Andy]

thanks harvyk - the data i need comes from international passenger cards - doesn't anyone work for the ABS?

Even if there is someone working there, I doubt they would have the time and/or the knowledge to get the information at the drop of a hat. They certainly have a wealth of data to go through. And that's assuming they are actually allowed to simply divulge such information to anyone without going through the official channels.

 

[SARoberts]

Hawaiian airlines is $3800 return in J
Jetstar is $3600 when you select the Status Credits and QFF earning option, $3200 otherwise

Is Jetstar Y+ worth $3600 = NO

Hawaiian gives you an extra 8inches of pitch and the new A330's are nice from all reports. Full seat-back IFE and not a pathetic portable media player. Of course Jetstar have at least 1 x A330 with seatback TV's

Now Hawaiian call their product "First Class" which is again, when compared to major carriers, not a first class product, but for the "hawaiian market" it makes sense.

My next flight to Hawaii is on Hawaiian, I have no reason to support Jetstar anymore.

But is it really worth $3800 on Hawaiian for the product - No again but I don't like Y....

thanks! appreciate it

 

[docjames]

Now Hawaiian call their product "First Class" which is again, when compared to major carriers, not a first class product, but for the "hawaiian market" it makes sense.

It's called "First Class" becuase it is equivalent to the USA domestic "First Class" and is flown domestically to the mainland as well as to Aus/Asia. Their major market is the US Mainland, and in that market, the product they're offering which we call "business class" is called "first class".

(all of which i'm sure you're aware but am pointing this out for the OP)

 

[wingspan]

thanks wingspan - that's what i was doing when i decided to just post a question and see what popped up

you want abnormal ... i also got sucked into the 'don't fly jetstar' freakshow blogfest site - it's like reality tv *visceral horror*

hahah I read that site once before I was due to fly ADL-MEL-SIN-KUL all on jetstar and started to get rather concerned about whether I would make it there on time. Although I couldn't stop reading everyone's posts because it was so amusing to see people pull out the "I am Qantas Chairmans Lounge" card to argue with others, under the assumption that because they were CL they knew more about flying than others.

so what do you think - have you travelled jetstar bc - do you think that having previously travelled FSC bc makes you more or less likely to appreciate the price/comfort balance of the product mix?

I've flown JetStar business class (once when it was "Star Class" and once when it was rebranded as business class). At the times I've flown it I've only done so because the price difference between Y and J was small, and the difference between JQ and other carriers was significant. I wouldn't actively choose JQ J unless those were the circumstances. It's nice but it's not that nice. I'm quite happy to sit in a FSC Y class for an Asian route anyway. I think having travelled a FSC J makes one less likely to appreciate the the JQ product. Anecdotally, from flights that I've been on JQ J, my fellow cabinmates have mostly comprised of older Australian tourists having never flown business before and wanting to sample 'business class' on a holiday.

 

[SARoberts]

hahah I read that site once before I was due to fly ADL-MEL-SIN-KUL all on jetstar and started to get rather concerned about whether I would make it there on time. Although I couldn't stop reading everyone's posts because it was so amusing to see people pull out the "I am Qantas Chairmans Lounge" card to argue with others, under the assumption that because they were CL they knew more about flying than others.



I've flown JetStar business class (once when it was "Star Class" and once when it was rebranded as business class). At the times I've flown it I've only done so because the price difference between Y and J was small, and the difference between JQ and other carriers was significant. I wouldn't actively choose JQ J unless those were the circumstances. It's nice but it's not that nice. I'm quite happy to sit in a FSC Y class for an Asian route anyway. I think having travelled a FSC J makes one less likely to appreciate the the JQ product. Anecdotally, from flights that I've been on JQ J, my fellow cabinmates have mostly comprised of older Australian tourists having never flown business before and wanting to sample 'business class' on a holiday.

thank you!!!!!

 

[xquisite]

but if anyone has any opinions - on topic - that they would like to share - could you please consider the following ....

have you travelled jetstar bc - do you think that having previously travelled FSC bc makes you more or less likely to appreciate the price/comfort balance of the LCC bc product mix? would you travel LCC bc again on a short haul holiday?

many many thanks to all who responded - i appreciate your time and humour

I have travelled JStar BC, and I agree with wingspan that having flown FSC BC makes me less likely to appreciate the former. For the flight I booked, the premium for flying J (incl FF points) over Y was small. Plus is was a daytime flight to Asia.

I have never seen the "Don't fly Jetstar" blogfest; but I can guess why it exists. I would be VERY hard pressed to consider flying JStar BC ever again. Perhaps if I had to get somewhere urgently and it was the only option. I say that after the woeful experience I had the last time: food was actually inedible (I'm not exaggerating), ridiculous portable IFE that kept sliding down my non-flat tray table, footrest that kept collapsing, etc etc. As far as value for money BC I would definitely consider an LCC and that would be Air Asia. My experiences flying their premium product (albeit not numerous) have shat all over JStar.

 

[SARoberts]

I have travelled JStar BC, and I agree with wingspan that having flown FSC BC makes me less likely to appreciate the former. For the flight I booked, the premium for flying J (incl FF points) over Y was small. Plus is was a daytime flight to Asia.

I have never seen the "Don't fly Jetstar" blogfest; but I can guess why it exists. I would be VERY hard pressed to consider flying JStar BC ever again. Perhaps if I had to get somewhere urgently and it was the only option. I say that after the woeful experience I had the last time: food was actually inedible (I'm not exaggerating), ridiculous portable IFE that kept sliding down my non-flat tray table, footrest that kept collapsing, etc etc. As far as value for money BC I would definitely consider an LCC and that would be Air Asia. My experiences flying their premium product (albeit not numerous) have shat all over JStar.

thank you very much, I appreciate your time

 

[jetlagger]

My practical suggestion would be to actually physically go to MEL airport/s & gather the accurate & required quantitive information by surveying the JQ pax checking in & also collecting their baggage, that would certainly give you a accurate & honest assessment for your requirements. Sure most passengers are happy & cooperative to divulge reasoning for travelling on JQ, if you disclose the reasoning to them.
Have spent many a times doing research this way for various types of assignments for tourism management thesis.
Good luck..
Cheers, jl

 

[yohy?!]

Polls created on AFF are typically very reliable for collecting this type of anecdotal data

 

[harvyk]

thanks harvyk - the data i need comes from international passenger cards - doesn't anyone work for the ABS?

I don't but I have a friend that does, I'll drop her a line on Monday and find out how one would go about getting such data, however I strongly expect the answer will be to search the ABS website for any published reports.
I also expect the reports, if one even exists, will simply state percentages of people travelled to certain countries (maybe even cities) for business \ leisure reasons, and potentially a break down of what state the percentages came from.

I highly doubt such a report would match up destination percentages for carrier, as such a report if it exists would most likely be used for determining OS trade opportunities, not determining how people got there.

You may also be able to read through any reports or notices which QF or JQ have made to the ASX. From that you could take a very unscientific guess, but in terms of an assignment those numbers would be pretty rubbery to say the least, with a lot of assumptions.