Lost all trust in Qantas

[ozgod]

No guessing where that attitude comes from - that is a very apt description of AJs attitude to his costumers.

That's really it. The CEO and the executive management drive the company culture. And Qantas, being a virtual monopoly, feels it can dictate terms to its customers with little or no revenue impact, because most people (and most businesses) will suck it up and keep flying with them, particularly domestically where they have 70% of the market.

So it's almost like we the customers should be privileged to be flying with them. That's why they can be ruthless in cutting costs, laying off staff, raising prices and fully passing on any cost increases to the customer, whether it be due to external factors like oil or because of their own incompetence in short staffing their customer service team. And of course investors love it because it pushes the share price up - it's better to be a Qantas shareholder than a customer.

In a fully competitive market where customers can choose who to fly with and there is genuine price and service differentiation the customers would keep them honest.

 

[Sprucegoose]

In a fully competitive market where customers can choose who to fly with and there is genuine price and service differentiation the customers would keep them honest.

Agreed, Australia doesn't have these market characteristics, starting with the 'Two Airline Policy.

it's better to be a Qantas shareholder than a customer.

Yes, due to the lack of competition.

The CEO and the executive management drive the company culture.

Ordinarily, the CEO will report to the Chair.

https://www.qantas.com/us/en/qantas-group/acting-responsibly/our-leadership.html

With a coy the size of Qantas, I would find it hard to agree the CEO should also occupy the role of Managing Director (or as a Director) - there is a missing layer of accountability.

If you don't like anything at Qantas, write to Richard Goyder.

Qantas Australia Corporate Offices | headquarters | Phone

Get Information, reviews and headquarter address for Qantas Airways Offices located at 10 Bourke Rd,Mascot, NSW, 2020, Australia

contactnumbersdetails.com

 

[Melburnian1]

A comment about respecting staff and fellow travellers (e.g. for their choice to wear face masks, or not) is also in the AA and AS safety videos/spoken safety spiels I've experienced in the past year.
I've not heard a spoken diatribe telling off passengers, though.

Thank you for mentioning two more airlines to avoid.

 

[RichardMEL]

Thank you for mentioning two more airlines to avoid.

Are you really triggered this much by a simple request for people to have manners?

I agree it shouldn't NEED to be said but clear it has to (though I do honestly wonder if the target audience would even hear it)

I think you'll find as incidences of air rage, self entitlement and all the rest increase, these things will become more and more common. Your list of airlines to avoid may become rather long

 

[Quickstatus]

clear it has to

I don’t think it will make any difference though. Some of the air rage and poor to even criminal behaviour often stems from frustrations with the airline from other non inflight cabin contexts. Other threads here have highlighted how there may be a perception (whether fair or not) that the airlines really don’t care about their passengers, or disregard their complaint/concern.

I just point out that making such announcements are easy because they come from a position of power. The customer does not have any power, may not give it any respect and will just push them into a more adversarial or cynical position- maybe not in that particular flight but moving forward.

Basically the airline is demanding respect. I would rather the airline command respect which is a much harder endeavour

 

[RichardMEL]

I don’t think it will make any difference though. Some of the air rage and poor to even criminal behaviour often stems from frustrations with the airline from other non inflight cabin contexts. Other threads here have highlighted how there may be a perception (whether fair or not) that the airlines really don’t care about their passengers, or disregard their complaint/concern.

I just point out that making such announcements are easy because they come from a position of power. The customer does not have any power will not give it any respect and will just push them into a more adversarial or cynical - maybe not in that particular flight but moving forward

Perhaps.. or maybe they're just putting it out there to at least try to get someone to at least think about their interactions with others? It may not make any difference but I don't really see how they create harm except from those that apparently are aggravated by such things. I'm not one of them but then again I don't travel to take out my frustrations on crews or fellow passengers.

I do agree that often unacceptable behaviour can happen for many reasons - or a build up of frustrations that may have nothing to do with the in flight crew or other pax - pre flight drinking, being delayed, maybe a bad day in general... resentments or anger over personal situations.. all kinds of things.

I don't know the customer has the power to decide how to behave don't they?

 

[Quickstatus]

nothing to do with the in flight crew or other pax

Yes, the inflight crew rarely have anything to do with pent up frustrations entering the cabin
While I understand that announcements are related to the particular flight, the bigger picture also can't be ignored by the airline.

 

[Melburnian1]

Perhaps.. or maybe they're just putting it out there to at least try to get someone to at least think about their interactions with others? It may not make any difference but I don't really see how they create harm except from those that apparently are aggravated by such things. I'm not one of them but then again I don't travel to take out my frustrations on crews or fellow passengers.

The tiny minority who behave in this way won't be influenced by signs, or for that matter in many cases, sanctions.

To give an extreme non-aviation example, there's plenty of media publicity when individuals are locked up for 20 years or more for a heinous crime such as murder. But have homicide rates fallen to zero? We know the answer.

There'll be other specifics interacting in my example such as 'a crime of passion' but for what the accused perceives as minor matters such as when bogans briefly hide how they're inebriated, get past boarding gate staff and successfully board the plane, then behave inappropriately once down the aisle or seated, 'thinking' is absent. Unlike you, RichardMEL, they're incapable of hearing and responding to that signal from the cranium saying 'well perhaps I ought not do this'.

As QuickStatus suggests, far better that the airline(s) address their own deficiencies of which there are many. We don't hear of problems on board from Australians using airlines like EK/JL/NH/QR/SG and yet bogans must sometimes use them, as so many in Australia are part of that group. These companies may not be perfect but by and large people (even bogans) know that they're entities that command respect because they achieve, and importantly, tend to treat passengers well from one's initial contact until the end of a trip.

 

[mannej]

just because you don’t hear about it, doesn’t mean it isn’t an issue.

 

[RichardMEL]

As QuickStatus suggests, far better that the airline(s) address their own deficiencies of which there are many. We don't hear of problems on board from Australians using airlines like EK/JL/NH/QR/SG and yet bogans must sometimes use them, as so many in Australia are part of that group. These companies may not be perfect but by and large people (even bogans) know that they're entities that command respect because they achieve, and importantly, tend to treat passengers well from one's initial contact until the end of a trip.

hmm let me see:

SQ:
Australian Man Arrested for Bomb Hoax that resulted in Singapore bound plane being intercepted by F16 Fighter Jets

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2019/04/25/australian-man-arrested-for-bomb-hoax-that-resulted-insingapore-bound-plane-being-intercepted-by-f-16-fighter-jets/

Scoot:
Scoot Flight from Gold Coast to Singapore diverted after mid-air brawl:

Mid-air brawl forces Scoot flight to make emergency landing in Sydney

A Gold Coast-to-Singapore flight is diverted to Sydney when a passenger takes his shirt off and fights with other passengers before being restrained and arrested by Australian Federal Police.

www.abc.net.au

HA:
Passenger Arrested for disturbance on Hawaiian airlines flight bound from Sydney to Honolulu.

Passenger arrested for disturbance on Hawaiian Airlines flight bound from Sydney to Honolulu

A 36-year-old woman was arrested after causing a disturbance on a Hawaiian Airlines flight bound from Sydney Australia to Honolulu.

www.kitv.com

etc etc etc

this was from a simple google search and it goes on and on - I just picked the first few that came up.

Further just go onto youtube and check out air rage or all of the other videos of people on aircraft behaving like tools.

You seem to be implying it's ALL specific airlines' (ie: QF) fault. It's not all on them. It's passengers who choose to behave like this. Where has personal responsibility gone? Even with much "better" airlines there are, have been, and will continue to be incidents.

Yes, some airlines contribute to anger issues but dismissing the passengers who do this cough from any responsibility and put all the blame on the airlines shows a particular bias imo.

However, as I commented earlier, I agree that messaging about proper behaviour are lost on the culprits mostly. What's the harm in having them though?

And I kind of appreciate the AA line (I've heard a few times myself) regarding masks and being respectful of pax and crew who choose to wear them (or not). With such a divisive topic like this - SPECIALLY in the US - it's a reasonable and fair message imo. While it shouldn't NEED to be said, apparently for some it still does.

We all get into situations that can drive us crazy, frustrate us, make us mad etc but it's how we, as individuals, handle them that counts. Some people handle things badly. While poor airline experiences may contribute as a cause of frustration, people should take personal responsibility and there should be accountability - and not blaming others - for how they choose to behave.

imo.

 

[Melburnian1]

hmm let me see

The link was broken on the first article, and one of the others was a few years old.

It's good you now concede signage is ineffective, but you've missed my central point.

Even though we agree passengers ought take responsibility for how they behave, unfortunately many who behave inappropriately are incapable of understanding that, or don't care. So becoming intoxicated before they board will continue, and some manage to get past the staff checking boarding passes.

 

[Angela05]

The way I read it, Qantas has completely cancelled a flight. I think perhaps a return flight to Australia while the OP is currently travelling in Europe. The reason given doesn't entirely make sense. I'm not sure if that's because of the stress of trying to deal with this issue while travelling.
But telling someone to dispute the charge in this situation is utterly useless, arrogant and lacks any consideration of the problems Qantas' actions have caused.
Great you got the seat selection fees back, I'm not sure it's the same as what the OP has experienced.

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Yes we are in Europe needing to travel back to Australia at the end of January. Here is a summation of what has happened over the past 30 days:

1. I made and paid for a booking with the Qantas Service Centre.
2. Qantas failed to ticket the booking.
3. Many attempts to get Qantas to fix this. No result.
3. Qantas said I needed to make and pay for a new booking.
4. However Qantas could not find capacity for us to travel together (family with young kids).
5. In desperation I made and paid for a new booking with my family travelling separately to me. Qantas ticketed this.
6. Multiple escalations asking Qantas to fly us together. No result.
7. Multiple escalations asking Qantas to refund the duplicate payments. Qantas say to dispute it with my bank.
8. Qantas sent an email saying I had duplicate bookings and if I didn’t call they would cancel the bookings.
9. Multiple calls and DMs on FB and Qantas said they would cancel the second booking and ticket the original booking.
10. 9 days until we are due to fly and Qantas has cancelled the second booking (that was ticketed) but still not ticketed the original booking.

I am OWE, QGFL (43K SCs), and work/travel for one of Qantas’ largest corporate customers. I have made >10 calls to the Qantas Service Centre, multiple disconnections, promised callbacks that didn’t happen, >30 DMs on social media, 3 complaints to Qantas Customer Care, an email to the Qantas exec team, an escalation to the Qantas media team.

I am currently messaging Qantas on social media but appears to be a bot responding. I am also on the phone with Qantas Service Centre and have been disconnected 3 times so far.

I can and will dispute the duplicate charges with my bank. However my bank can’t fly us home. Still need Qantas to issue tickets.

 

[RichardMEL]

oh boy that is poor.

also when you mention travelling together - do you mean seats together or on the same flight(s)?

what is QCFL? Lifetime QC membership?

 

[Sprucegoose]

Thanks for all the replies everyone Yes we are in Europe expecting to travel back to Australia at the end of January. Here is a summation of what has happened over the past 30 days:

1. I made and paid for a booking with the Qantas Service Centre.
2. Qantas failed to ticket the booking.
3. Many attempts to get Qantas to fix this. No result.
3. Qantas said I needed to make and pay for a new booking.
4. However Qantas could not find capacity for us to travel together (family with young kids).
5. In desperation I made and paid for a new booking with my family travelling separately to me. Qantas ticketed this.
6. Multiple escalations asking Qantas to fly us together. No result.
7. Multiple escalations asking Qantas to refund the duplicate payments (tens of thousands of dollars). Qantas say to dispute it with my bank.
8. Qantas sent an email saying I had duplicate bookings and if I didn’t call they would cancel the bookings.
9. Multiple calls and DMs on FB and Qantas said they would cancel the second booking and ticket the original booking.
10. 9 days until we are due to fly and Qantas has cancelled the second booking (that was ticketed) but still not ticketed the original booking.

I am OWE, QGFL, and work/travel for one of Qantas’ largest corporate customers. I have made >10 calls to the Qantas Service Centre, multiple disconnections, promised callbacks that didn’t happen, >30 DMs on social media, 3 complaints to Qantas Customer Care, an email to the Qantas exec team, an escalation to the Qantas media team.

I am currently messaging Qantas on social media but appears to be a bot responding. I am also on the phone with Qantas Service Centre and have been disconnected 3 times so far.

I can and will dispute the duplicate charges with my bank. However my bank can’t fly us home. Still need Qantas to issue tickets.

Dear Angela05,

Your first three points would clearly be a matter of fact that you have at your disposal.

Importantly you must get yourself and your family home in the best way you can.

Your business has a CL relationship executive, have you been in touch with them ?

You are clearly a person of means, I would instruct a legal advisor on what recovery options you have if you're unable to resolve this issue by direct negotiation.


Lastly don’t stress, it will be sorted and everything will be ok.

Finally you have our best wishes.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Are the flights EU to AU all on QF? Or another carrier in full or part?

QGFL (43K SCs) = Qantas Gold for Life

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Are the flights EU to AU all on QF? Or another carrier in full or part?

QGFL (43K SCs) = Qantas Gold for Life

Even if the flights are from the EU, without a ticket I’m not sure there’s much protection?

 

[Angela05]

oh boy that is poor.

also when you mention travelling together - do you mean seats together or on the same flight(s)?

what is QCFL? Lifetime QC membership?

Sorry for the abbreviations:

QCFL = Qantas Gold for Life
43K SC = 43,000 Status Credits

Not travelling together = Qantas could not find 4 tickets in a single class of travel.

Are the flights EU to AU all on QF? Or another carrier in full or part?

QGFL (43K SCs) = Qantas Gold for Life

QF ticket.
QF flight numbers.
EU - UK are BA operated flights.
UK - AU are QF operated flights.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Even if the flights are from the EU, without a ticket I’m not sure there’s much protection?

QF are now well known for not ticketing on partner airlines in the time deadline.
Have not read of an issue with an all QF flight.

 

[RichardMEL]

OK ty. just FYI we tend to use the moniker LTG for Lifetime Gold.

 

[Angela05]

Dear Angela05,

Your first three points would clearly be a matter of fact that you have at your disposal.

Importantly you must get yourself and your family home in the best way you can.

Your business has a CL relationship executive, have you been in touch with them ?

You are clearly a person of means, I would instruct a legal advisor on what recovery options you have if you're unable to resolve this issue by direct negotiation.


Lastly don’t stress, it will be sorted and everything will be ok.

Finally you have our best wishes.

Thank you for the wishes and the suggestion of the CL relationship executive. This is personal travel rather than business travel, and I am reluctant to do this, but don’t seem to be able to get Qantas to help through any other means.

Post automatically merged: Jan 21, 2023

QF are now well known for not ticketing on partner airlines in the time deadline.
Have not read of an issue with an all QF flight.

As far as I understand (from BA and QF) Qantas did not ticket the QF operated flights.
BA flights still have availability. QF flights do not.