Loyalty programs - worse than cigarettes or crack cocaine.

[Forg]

To stop what? Competition? There are laws about predatory pricing and stuff like that.

It’d be difficult to prove something was predatory pricing & not just responding to localised market pressures, though, surely?
And there’s also surely no law stopping a business from pricing according to local conditions?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

And so I got to a point where I realised this and sat back and contemplated it all. I must for clarity and openness also include that such high travel is bad for one's self in a physical and family sense. Stealing two comments from other posters, one is "If you enjoy travelling you haven't done it enough". The other is "The higher your flyer status, the lesser is your quality of life". I get and agree with both of these.

I decided to change. Take a new direction in life where I would minimize travel. It is now almost five months since I have set foot on an aircraft - very different from doing 200+ flights / 500,000km a year. And it has been amazing the improvement in my family life, in my health. But this is about loyalty schemes....

Interesting read. Thank you.

I was once a frequent work flyer, though not to your extremes.

However like you I had epiphany on my working life, and specifically on how "work travel" was really decreasing my quality of live. Now early on and especially before kids it was great fun and I enjoyed it. But as the years flew bust I did one day realise that I was missing more and more of what actually matter most, quality time with family and friends. Work travel flights became also more and more like just catching a bus.

So I have up the flight warrior career and changed to a new company and position where flights were rarity. I also due this gave up having Status in FF Programs.

I became a master of my own time again, and as just one example the conversations that I then was able to enjoy each morning with my 3 daughters as I drove them to school, training etc became a rewarding part of my life that had been denied to me. Now all adults we still share some of the "in-jokes" that we laughed about that time.

So while I did enjoy the buzz from being a flight warrior, I was even more glad when I stopped being one.

"If you enjoy travelling you haven't done it enough".

My change was also great as it meant that travel was once again mainly just for pleasure. Each flight now is looked forward to, rather than often dreaded.

FF programs also became just a vehicle to allow me, and my family to enjoy the pleasure of travel, rather than being primarily a vehicle to ease the discomfort of travelling for work.


FF Programs have always been a tool where if you are at the right end of the knowledge bell curve that one can extract better value than most. Yes they can be addictive and I have occasionally been drawn into promos that I should not have been. But overall I am quite ruthless in earning points where I gain advantage after considering BOTH the time and effort involved.

By understanding how they work one can use that to ones own advantage, but yes one does sell ones data in the process. However there are ways that one can manipulate this to one's advantage.

 

[nickfromeastryde]

Not being a flight warrior I still sit in the "If you enjoy travelling you haven't done it enough" camp and have very much enjoyed the perks that probably would have been unattainable without being part of the loyalty program brigade.

No real problems with sharing my data, benefits for me and benefits for them. My only concerns are around how secure that data is and the potential harm that could create for me however to date never happened and not sure Loyalty schemes are any more at risk than the data that the government, banks et al have on me already

 

[VPS]

As always a very interesting and well written thread @juddles (how is that book going?)

I gave up a job that was paying well with too much cough travel ie day flights leaving at 6am and getting back at midnight and expecting to function well the next day. I took a hefty pay cut but don't regret it for the quality of work/life balance. That has changed again now and I'm only doing contracting and working from home and it works well. I will continue to 'play the game' until I have LTG with Qantas that will be in the next few months and then will just see what happens. I've become and accidental Hilton Diamond and about to do the same with IHG and didn't go out of my way for that but I won't pursue them when they're finished.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I've been presenting talks at conferences recently about how airline loyalty programs are able to envoke emotions that no other marketing program is able to achieve. The method is done through what you seem to be experiencing as addiction.

The program itself is NOT addictive. What is addictive is the small moments of love/joy/freedom the program (via the airline) makes you feel at specific touchpoints throughout the journey. Your subconscious is then associating these feelings of love/joy/freedom with the airline/brand. As you repeat the feeling of love/joy/freedom with the airline experience (eg: "Welcome back Mr xx_ I have your favourite Chocolate onboard today......enjoy" -- the feeling you receive from this you may interpret as LOVE - therefore - creating a new 'small moment' of LOVE in your brain with the airline brand).

Repetition + emotion of love/joy/freedom
Repetition + emotion of love/joy/freedom
Repetition + emotion of love/joy/freedom
Repetition + emotion of love/joy/freedom
Repetition + emotion of love/joy/freedom
Repetition + emotion of love/joy/freedom

Eventually - you become addicted to that feeling.

That feeling you associate with the airline/loyalty program.

In short - it's not the loyalty program you crave.

Rather - It's the feeling of love/joy/freedom that you have consistently experienced when being part of the airline/program.

Love/Joy/Freedom are the TOP 3 emotions we can feel as humans, and these are our 'true state' - it's what we want to feel as much as possible.
Airlines are able to hit on all 3 of these feelings due to the nature of the product.

That's why they work.
That's why you feel addicted.

You're addicted to the feeling of the airline/loyalty program.

 

[Dr Ralph]

Got my vote @juddles for the longest first post ever.

 

[bertflyer]

For me the sweet spot is QF SG, I travel 6-7 times overseas per year and some domestic flights. That means I get priority check in and boarding and of course the lounge access.
If was agnostic about my airline choices for each flight I would be bronze for all of them (more or less). So as I work for an organisation that dictates Y only travel this makes my choice to direct all travel to QF/OW airlines fairly easy. Plus I collect enough points with QFF to allow me to upgrade on occasions, like the recent QF10 flight where I had a far more pleasant experience in PE than the Y ordeal it would have been. 75k points well spent I think.
But, as I said I don’t travel anyway near what a WP1 has to put up with - my ‘addiction’ to QF and it’s FF program works for me.
I don’t bother with credit cards etc that earn FF points.

 

[Bodie]

I try to seperate the points side seperate to the status or flight side in the loyalty debate. As someone who has only had lounge access and gold benefits for a year - its the entire airport experience you crave vs flying economy with no status. You want to have those benefits again and if you dont fly enough to gain status on multiple programs you try to get with one - so you become loyal to that program to try get to that level to obtain those benefits.

For points its more likely to gain the most points via the least amount of money possibly.

 

[woodyren]

I am a late adopter to putting rewards schemes to use for me.

I have had a few cards for a number of years but was basically clueless for most of that time. I recall I was impressed when I used years of CBA rewards points at one time to redeem a $500 off Flight Centre reward.

I usually joined each airlines scheme when I flew but as we only flew for leisure, usually on the cheapest available airlines and in the cheapest fare categories, the small amount of points gained all just withered on the vine. It seemed to me that only the wealthy or business travellers could get any benefit from FF schemes.

Around Nov 2015 I stumbled across the Pointhacks site and then AFF. I started reading and after a basic few pointers applied for and received my first card with a signup bonus. Amex Velocity Platinum. From there I admit I was hooked. Constantly looking to add to my tally while I still earn enough to qualify. Being semi retired (6 months work @ 6-7 days a week mixed with 4- 6 months travel) I both had the need for air tickets and the spend to meet minimum spend quickly for each card. Add to that all the other points generating ideas that those on here kindly share and I have, on my current single income, built up enough points to secure reward flights for most of our travel in the last 3 years. We take a number of repositioning cruises. Generally with a particular cruise line. That company has its own loyalty scheme which in turn benefits us with small discounts, free internet, 3 and a half hours of free drinks per night etc. We fly out in 2 days on a rewards flight from Brisbane to San Francisco in J on Fiji Airlines to join a ship to sail home from Vancouver via Hawaii and Tahiti.

I have J rewards bookings back from China on Cathay Pacific next June, from Syd to Taipei on China Airlines next August and Taipei to Vancouver on JAL to take another cruise. We then need to get from Sydney to Barcelona 8 days after we return home and after crossing the Atlantic by ship get back to South East Asia from Miami or New York. I am confident we can secure Singapore Airlines and Virgin Atlantic J rewards for those flights.

So after the long winded background story my take on the schemes. I have no problem with them using my data. I accept the trade off as I believe I gain a far greater benefit. I do have small concerns about fraud risk but I am prepared to accept that risk. While the points chasing does manipulate my spending habits at times I have enough understanding to know the cost of those decisions and only spend where the benefit is weighted towards myself.

I hope the enquiry from the regulators doesn't change the status quo too much.

by the way T_T_R . I personally dont buy your theory. I'm addicted to the product/comfort/free stuff I get for a budget that I normally count or wouldn't be able to afford.

 

[Kolo]

Your post reminds me of Bossregie's lament "Am I a frequent flyer?" (for those of us that have been here long enough to remember). A number of us hit the wall but there's just as many who continue to prosper in the game.

 

[mrsterryn]

Having been trying to pose an adequate response today I have just realised that in a way it is AFF I am addicted , in a way, as it gives hints , tips and ideas on how to benefit from various points programmes.

My first few international carriers were selected at random , with little regard for timing or plane type or suchlike. Also no consideration for points .

I do enjoy working out our flights however my travel is still fun , new planes , new carrier , new countries and new lounges. Creating memories for when husband and I can no longer travel.
Ok this was waffling but I enjoy collecting points , having snarky comments about my loss of status (tongue in cheek ).

Ohhhh does anyone remember who telecom used to travel with in the 80s and early 90s cause geez I missed out on a stack of credits then travelling up and down the east coast of aust

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I do enjoy working out our flights however my travel is still fun , new planes , new carrier , new countries and new lounges. Creating memories for when husband and I can no longer travel.

But i guess the danger here, if chasing status, is that you lose the 'fun' of new planes, new carriers, and new product.

If you're chasing platinum or P1 on Qantas you're going to be pretty familiar with drooping skybeds, tagine of chicken with preserved lemon and sourdough. To my knowledge QF hasn't innovated anything, passenger-wise, in the last 40 years

 

[opusman]

To my knowledge QF hasn't innovated anything, passenger-wise, in the last 40 years

Oi! They invented business class, and by god they're gonna rest on those laurels as long as possible!

 

[JohnK]

sjk, I cannot fathom your reply.

Only this reply?

I'm starting to have second thoughts regarding loyalty programs.

I have close to 1 million IHG points. My driving factor was 5,000 point PointBreaks and 10,000 points Holiday Inn Chiang Mai redemptions. Both a huge disappointment.

It took me over 10 years to save 100,000 Hhonors points which doesn't get very much with continuing enhancements.

P.S. I have no desire to pay for overpriced hotels so that I'm able to redeem 20 nights at a 40,000 point hotel.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Oi! They invented business class, and by god they're gonna rest on those laurels as long as possible!

yes, that's what I was thinking of. And I believe that was around 40 years ago (1979)

To be fair I think they innovated the concept of the wider seat. Other carriers such as Pan Am had already started to curtain off the first few rows of economy for 'full fare' passengers. Some additional amenities, but standard seating.

 

[daft009]

I still have a long way to go but I've always felt... If you've earnt the high status repeatedly.. It just stops being special.

It's a trap as then you have to keep aiming higher and higher to enjoy more.. Bit like lifestyle creep i guess

 

[juddles]

I've been presenting talks at conferences recently about how airline loyalty programs are able to envoke emotions that no other marketing program is able to achieve. The method is done through what you seem to be experiencing as addiction.

The program itself is NOT addictive. What is addictive is the small moments of love/joy/freedom the program (via the airline) makes you feel at specific touchpoints throughout the journey. Your subconscious is then associating these feelings of love/joy/freedom with the airline/brand. As you repeat the feeling of love/joy/freedom with the airline experience (eg: "Welcome back Mr xx_ I have your favourite Chocolate onboard today......enjoy" -- the feeling you receive from this you may interpret as LOVE - therefore - creating a new 'small moment' of LOVE in your brain with the airline brand).

Repetition + emotion of love/joy/freedom
Repetition + emotion of love/joy/freedom
Repetition + emotion of love/joy/freedom
Repetition + emotion of love/joy/freedom
Repetition + emotion of love/joy/freedom
Repetition + emotion of love/joy/freedom

Eventually - you become addicted to that feeling.

That feeling you associate with the airline/loyalty program.

In short - it's not the loyalty program you crave.

Rather - It's the feeling of love/joy/freedom that you have consistently experienced when being part of the airline/program.

Love/Joy/Freedom are the TOP 3 emotions we can feel as humans, and these are our 'true state' - it's what we want to feel as much as possible.
Airlines are able to hit on all 3 of these feelings due to the nature of the product.

That's why they work.
That's why you feel addicted.

You're addicted to the feeling of the airline/loyalty program.

Trippin, after my first read of your post I think I actually disagree with you, but there are parts that have given me some food for though and I will ponder these as they may be valid in my case - am not sure yet. But getting back to my initial reaction of disagreement, these are some thoughts:

I think in an ideal world where the business delivers on the details CONSISTENTLY, I could understand your line of thinking. But it would be no shock to most here to know that the delivery has been anything but consistent. And as I alluded to briefly in the opening post, the failure to provide a particular service each and every time ends up having a rather negative impact. Love, Joy, and Freedom are not emotions that I would associate with most of my flights with QF

I will be very cheeky here and suggest that a seminar that refers to an environment of customers feeling love/joy/freedom is probably far more succesful in evoking those same delicious feelings in the attendees than it is in real-life airline passenger sensations

Yes, I recognize that when a traveller gains some status, gets a tad ahead of the "pack", it is a good feeling in some ways. I have certainly also felt moments of Love and Joy in moments where my status really helped me or staff made me feel special. But I really think that, at least in my case, that is not the truly addictive thing. I know from personal experience that nicotine in cigarettes is very addictive. And the consistency of that drug was part of the whole joy. But if Qantas was a cigarette, then only about one in five smokes would actually contain nicotine. Smoking that product would become actually quite irritating. I think that is my service-experience from QF. Dread of the unknown was a more common emotion for me than Joy.

I think there are two far more addictive processes at work that the feeling of emotion during travel. The first relates to SC and status. Which is to slowly get to different milestones, which equally slowly made improvements in my travelling life. I think this is where QF and many other Loyalty schemes are very well designed. They entice you to the next level, then they show you another slightly higher level, etc etc. This is perhaps why many of us find it so annoying when we reach the top - the game is over. It is very hard to be happy when you lose status. Doesnt matter whether it is dropping from P1 to WP, or SG to zero - it is not nice

The second is the desire to maximise what you get from your hard-earned spend. Sheer value for money. Now that loyalty programs are so universal, it has become a society where you do actually lose out by not being a member - take for example something so simple as grocery shopping. A bottle of milk costs the same for a Woolies customer if they pay cash or use a credit card - but unless you use your various points-earning methods, you get nothing extra. So "most" people now are in fact members, and do flash their Woolies reward card. I would assume that "we" (us in AFF that have a way-above general knowledge of these things) all understand that the value (or cost) to the businesses is outweighed by benefits to them. Data mining, etc. QF Loyalty is an extremely significant and profitable part of their business. Profitability comes from cash, from somewhere. IE consumers. The average punter just understands that they are getting "free points", so they want that. The average AFF'er knows that points accrual can be a great thing, especially given their greater knowledge of how to extract maximum benefit from these. But at the end of the day it is the same for both groups - they want those points. And notice that the talk is always about points - because businesses realised a long time ago that by using such a notional currency with no strict value, it is possible to hide just how trivial most rewards are.

Anyway, I am losing my thought train here, and have already made an outrageously long opening post - so will pause here.....

 

[juddles]

..... What is addictive is the small moments of love/joy/freedom the program (via the airline) makes you feel at specific touchpoints throughout the journey...........

I agree with this, and perhaps the impact of this has more truth than what I think I feel. Those tiny releases of dopamine (or whatever it is called) are in my understanding a basic driver of human behaviour.

 

[juddles]

tl;dr version:

me me me me me me me me

no free lunch

companies collect data

Got my vote @juddles for the longest first post ever.

sjk, I think I now understand your post. It is a perfect summary of my opening post! Almost.

I know I got carried away and blabbed much more than is usual here, but my intention was to give a solid background from which my personal viewpoints have arisen. I see far too many threads created where the first two pages of replies are of members trying to extract details that are vital to have any sensible discussion. Maybe I went far too far on the other side.....

 

[daft009]

I get virgin lounge access from the Amex charge card, for my 5-6 domestic trips a year it's awesome...I love it and I look forward to it and enjoy it immensely

If I was there in the same lounge as a gold or platinum it'd just be a big meh.. IMHO