Major changes to Velocity Frequent Flyer announced 17/10/24

[kpc]

I would say if you hit status by following the airline rules of accuring enough SC, sectors then using benefits that airline provides is a fare deal and for the airline or airline owner in this instance your not the target, well that just seems ordinary business plan.

Change the rules, as they have I guess. Must be careful to not put off too many off those so called "non target customers"
Not sure many 'new' members they going to attract with this devaluation? Oh I can get less status credits now with Virgin, less SC on international partners, where do I sign up? Hmm.

Wasn't long ago they were throwing WP status for a paltry 200SCs to new comers, now basically ditching loyal WP customers who clock up ~1000SCs.
Changing landscape it is.

So where will you go to instead ?! Qf??!!

 

[MooTime]

So where will you go to instead ?! Qf??!!

As I stated up thread.
I'll just use the 3 carriers we have here with BFOD. Simple.

 

[ols]

As mention elsewhere, a close member of the family works for Bain. He doesn't share alot as it is confidential information but your analysis marries well with what he implies to my comments about Bain's ownership of Virgin.

BTW, he bluntly told me that I and my freq flyer mob are not Virgin's target customers as we cost the airline money...getting status and (costly) benefits for as little as possible...this would be consistent as to why Virgin are changing their FF program...to reduce costs!

I complained to him that unless flying Va J or are Plat, wifi is not free like Qf. He told me tat wifi is expensive, and to fly Qf!!

Your close family member works for a private equity company.
They don't care what an airline or it's customers need.
Reduce costs, make more money then sell whatever particular entity they are attached to is their aim

 

[bernardblack]

The only thing that changes is individual situations, so some are more or less affected than others depending on tickets and routes and airline.

The airline that wanted its market position to attract the value customer will now be offering substantially less value in its FF program.

I agree, and I feel like I personally am moderately disadvantaged by these changes. (It's moreso status changes than earning/burning changes, because as I said the burn devaluation is not huge and most of my points are not earned in the air.) But I also recognise that in this market they just have to offer a more compelling option vs Qantas, and QFF as a program (just like QF as an airline) leaves a great deal to be desired. On average, VA fares tend to beat QF ones materially, so the price comparison favours VA.

The only significant advantage QF offers over VA is alliance membership, and that is somewhat mitigated by (a) there being much better programs for OneWorld earning and burning (unless you're heavily biased to QF metal), and (b) QF's antagonistic relationship with the most premium airline in their alliance, to the extent that that airline is going all-in on VA.

As long as VA offers the “value” proposition in way of fares people will make their decision on what they really need as opposed to would like - and VA know it

Precisely this. I would prefer on the whole that VA not make these changes (although I might feasibly get to Forever Gold someday) but I also know people who optimise for status are a cost centre for VA and they're running a business. It doesn't change the calculus such that QF is better, at the volume of flying I do. I will collect QFF points incidentally for stuff in Australia where they're offered, and keep crediting OneWorld in general to AA (or maybe AS if that looks more useful after the HA smoke clears). Now it seems like EK even is better credited to Aeroplan than QFF probably.

If I can't make status, then I will forego the baggage etc perks and will access the lounges through Amex Plat. If I'm travelling long-haul, I will be doing so most likely in business where lounge access (and priority baggage etc) is provided in any event.

 

[andye]

I think VA will lose more customers to JQ than to QF with the changes. I'm sure there will be people (not typical AFFers) whose inclination is to buy the cheapest fare but are swayed to fly VA for status benefits

 

[drron]

Yep horses for courses.

My last five leisure flights (not needing to travel on a specific day and requiring luggage and not traveling before 8am or after 8pm and not last flight of the day and booking at least two weeks in advance) have all resulted in me flying in a JQ legroom seat or QF as they were the cheapest option.

And my course is flying out of MCY which being a leisure destination for VA it is the early flights which are cheaper and so what we fly unless booked well ahead.
Of course with the new rules possibly go with our preferred timing and so more SCs.

 

[kpc]

Your close family member works for a private equity company.
They don't care what an airline or it's customers need.
Reduce costs, make more money then sell whatever particular entity they are attached to is their aim

That's what Bain does...makes money. They didn't buy Virgin for the love of the aviation industry, the travelling public, frequent flyers etc.

Everything they do is about making money!

 

[simmomelb]

That's what Bain does...makes money. They didn't buy Virgin for the love of the aviation industry, the travelling public, frequent flyers etc.

Everything they do is about making money!

As is EVERY business, people that think a business does things out of the goodness of their hearts may be delusional.
A business is there to look after their bottom line for investors/shareholders, whether that be VA/Bain, Qantas or any other airline.
Every party wants a return on their investment.

 

[JohnK]

Double sc, if still occurring will still earn double SC but just a huge devaluation on low end fares. Personally think the double SC done and dusted for some time. They killed it last time as now every man and his dog has status.

This is one not many talk about.

I don't think it matters what Virgin does. There's still realistically only a choice between Virgin and Qantas and if people are running back to Qantas after this Virgin enhancement then clearly they have short memories.

I'm still going drive from Toowong at 2:30am to OOL to get the first OOL-SYD flight at 6:00am Saturday morning and return Sunday night as that is clearly cheaper than flying from BNE or Qantas from any airport. The Virgin enhancement now brings JQ back into the equation or Lite airfares.

 

[jase05]

Your post was about domestic, I think, but travelling international on Oneworld with QFF in booking gives you a RTW/international trip for that spend, and most if not all the earn required for QF plat

Absolutely. I’m not chasing QF status as I’ve got BAEC Gold and credit my OW flights to that plus I’ll have QR Platinum shortly so that’s all sorted. I usually do BFOD domestically and as I said QF is hardly ever close to pricing so I stick with VA and if I do take any leisure flights with QF I’ll credit that to BAEC. Work is all QF only but we can’t earn for that.

 

[travelislife]

An interesting quirk to this, they could lose revenue as people who used to book Choice to get the extra status credits just make do with Lite if they know they aren’t going to get there with the status anyway. I am thinking about it. The costs differential on MEL-SYD return for Lite to Choice makes sense to me to just scrape in to Platinum. But it means booking Choice nearly exclusively. If I am only going to be gold I have no reason to spend more on the choice fares. But maybe that makes sense to Virgin, as the cost to them of the additional revenue is too much. So less revenue is still better for them? Or am I mad…!? Haha.

 

[pabloako]

I have been platinum for years and fly around 20 VA domestic flights (BNE, SYD, MLB) a year and actively hunt out partner airlines (Singapore, Qatar, South African) for my international flights. I guess with the changes there is no real benefit of specifically using these partner airlines now, when there are numerous others that fly direct or go to more destinations. I will now be able to happily change my business flights from Singapore Airlines to Emirates now and they are often cheaper to Europe too, because the SC from these flights isn't much use now.

For domestic, I will now just shop around and see what the other domestic airlines are like.

So long Virgin, I may be off playing with the other boys and girls now, but will come back if your times and prices fit my schedule. Previously I changed my scheduled to fly Virgin.
Yer, I will get "Gold Forever", but where is the thrill of the chase?

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

An interesting quirk to this, they could lose revenue as people who used to book Choice to get the extra status credits just make do with Lite if they know they aren’t going to get there with the status anyway. I am thinking about it. The costs differential on MEL-SYD return for Lite to Choice makes sense to me to just scrape in to Platinum. But it means booking Choice nearly exclusively. If I am only going to be gold I have no reason to spend more on the choice fares. But maybe that makes sense to Virgin, as the cost to them of the additional revenue is too much. So less revenue is still better for them? Or am I mad…!? Haha.

Have done exactly the same. I travel without checked bags for most trips and after they enhanced the no-fee changes up to 14 days before the only real benefit to Choice was the SC earn, especially as Plat got me seat assignments for free.

This is a good anecdotal example of my earlier point: how much revenue does VA stand to lose either having to keep fares lower or having pax self-select into a lower fare group as a result of their overall devaluation of the FFP’s value?

Short-term? Likely not much and if plans to sell are in the short-term, there you go. Longer-term things get fuzzier and while I for one will likely book VA more often than QF given fares, I’m now more likely to book Lite, and more willing to book QF for my OW status benefits if the fare difference isn’t too much — and without VA status, the maximum premium I’m willing to pay for QF is now more than it was last week. That’s where things start getting murky across the board.

But hey - that’s the new owner’s problem.

 

[simmomelb]

Here is another point of view, if, and I believe it is possible (next year), VA improves the product, the chase to attain and maintain platinum, gold forever or plat plus, to many, could be even more of an incentive (obviously not true for those that aren't true FF's).
It's quite a common thing for elites to chase something that offers that little more than usual.
But here is the question, will they improve the product?

 

[BrianQQ]

VA improves the product, the chase to attain and maintain platinum, gold forever or plat plus, to many, could be even more of an incentive (obviously not true for those that aren't true FF's).

VA is not going to improve if

1. they don't improve their partner offerings, and
2. they don't join an airline alliance.

As a Gen Z'er, I can attest that a few of my friends are already going to JQ for the cheapest flight, as they are already disincentivised from paying more to fly to SYD and what not.

As a mixed hybrid airline, VA had an opportunity to capture the youth market by:

• marketing themselves as a mixed hybrid, premium experience without the large cost
• marketing their unique partners with heavy marketing on UA and SQ in large cities.
• marketing how rewarding their Velocity program is, actually rewarding loyalty

With these changes, all of it means moot. The ones looking to chase status are now either pivoting to QF, or are giving up and flying the cheapest fare (which most of the time is JQ).

Virgin Australia at present, or in the near future does not have the leverage to be doing this at all. Combined with point devaluation, and the optics do not look great for them.

Who in the hell is spending $24,000AUD on VA. Certainly not me.

 

[33kft]

With these changes, all of it means moot. The ones looking to chase status are now either pivoting to QF, or are giving up and flying the cheapest fare (which most of the time is JQ).

Step 2: Complain about how dominant the QF group is and demand the divestiture of JQ

Step 3: Profit (or call in the administrators, this is an AU airline afterall)

 

[BrianQQ]

Step 2: Complain about how dominant the QF group is and demand the divestiture of JQ

Step 3: Profit (or call in the administrators, this is an AU airline afterall)

Which is sad because QF was getting some real competition before this coughshow of a program "revamp" came to light.

 

[simmomelb]

Which is sad because QF was getting some real competition before this coughshow of a program "revamp" came to light.

Yet VA is making record profits, which at the end of the day is all that matters with all airlines.

Just food for thought

 

[BrianQQ]

Yet VA is making record profits, which at the end of these day is all that matters with all airlines.

Just food for thought.

At the moment, hence why I said QF was getting some real competition....

 

[simmomelb]

At the moment, hence why I said QF was getting some real competition....

The first time since VA's existence (these sorts of profits).
They are clearly doing something right, don't you think?
Yes, perhaps some genuine competition, but do they need to do more?