Major changes to Velocity Frequent Flyer announced 17/10/24

[moa999]

The Qatar investment probably doesn't help with the joining of an alliance.

Agreed.
But in a two airline market where the other airline is in an alliance it's always been more in Virgin's interest to stay unaligned and get the majority of traffic from both star and Skyteam.

The last 10yrs have also shown that even deeper relationships (JVs) are out of alliance partnerships are often more valuable than alliance memberships.

 

[RooFlyer]

That's correct although one must wonder how big of an issue that was for them. Lounges may have been packed but one must wonder how much of that was from travellers with status versus those on a business ticket or with a credit card?

Don’t care - as long as there’s fewer of them overall.

I wonder why that is?

on the Qantas side of the coin, they just say that the dishwasher is broken (which I’m sure is the case).

 

[Lynda2475]

NZ only finished off what News Corp/TNT started by having no idea on cleaning up their financial mess.

Sure but they poached the good aircraft and sealed Ansett's fate.

Not to mention neither Air NZ nor Star Alliance honoured award redemptions made before the announcement.

I had a *A RTW redemption which included no Ansett Flights just Singapore Airlines, United , Air NZ and Air Canada and they cancelled the ticket; along with the SYD-AKL RTN I had.

 

[kamchatsky]

It is simply in the best interest for VA not to be aligned to any alliances. They can strike partnerships and JV with a greater number of airlines than what *A and ST can provide

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Ansett were basically unable to make the transition from the two-airline policy, where the two airlines basically competed on service, to a deregulated environment, where airlines competed more on price.

Sure but they poached the good aircraft and sealed Ansett's fate.

Not to stray too far off the topic of this thread which is all about Virgin Australia's recent enhancements to their frequent spender program, but thought I'd point out that Ansett's acquisition of East-West airlines didn't help. Sure it may have helped expand their route network, but it also introduced a new limitation: they could only fly in an east-west direction thereby making lucrative markets like the golden triangle inaccessible. That's my dry humour for the day.

Not to mention neither Air NZ nor Star Alliance honoured award redemptions made before the announcement.

I had a *A RTW redemption which included no Ansett Flights just Singapore Airlines, United , Air NZ and Air Canada and they cancelled the ticket; along with the SYD-AKL RTN I had.

Presumably you could've taken those flights and if turned away simply booked new flights and sent the bill to the airlines under the Montreal Convention (or the Vienna Convention if that was the statute that applied in that instance). Sure the travel agency went out of business, but you held confirmed reservations and the Montreal Convention holds the airlines operating the flights, not the travel agents liable for disruptions like these (as they should).

Don’t care - as long as there’s fewer of them overall.

Well if very few people got in via status, then these changes won't have much of an impact. At the same time, I think Virgin's lounge access policy is too generous. In particular, Platinum members can bring in 3 guests. This is a perk not even Qantas offers and mind you Qantas has built two separate lounges at most major airports to reduce the chances of their lounges being rammed.

on the Qantas side of the coin, they just say that the dishwasher is broken (which I’m sure is the case).

Wait Qantas has a dishwasher now? Since when was that a thing?!

It is simply in the best interest for VA not to be aligned to any alliances. They can strike partnerships and JV with a greater number of airlines than what *A and ST can provide

That may be so. Certainly Emirates has shown that being part of an alliance is not necessary. However, many airlines have also shown that one can exist within an alliance whilst having many mistresses on the side. Qantas does this as a OneWorld member holding partnerships with Air France, KLM and China Airways on competitor SkyTeam. Air Canada does this with Emirates and Etihad despite AC being a member of Star Alliance. And for completeness, Delta does this with LATAM despite Delta being a member of SkyTeam.

 

[HS-TQE]

It is simply in the best interest for VA not to be aligned to any alliances. They can strike partnerships and JV with a greater number of airlines than what *A and ST can provide

JVs cost money/OpEx to set up, even if a partner operates zero metal in the JV (eg the EK/QF JV where EK operates 100% of the services).

VA has given zero indication of going past the codeshare and FF agreements by entering JVs under Private Equity ownership.

Likely will have to wait till QR/The IPO goes past the approval processes and the handover is completed before VA and Joint Ventures are considered again.

 

[n7of9]

I've noticed two sides in this thread - those who will be affected by the lower SC earn who emphasise the 'frequent' part of the program, and those affected by the devaluation of their 'loyalty' to the the program. I think both sides are valid in their disappointment and my key outtake from reading these pages is that they've sha-t on their frequent and loyal members. Whether you've attained status by flying on lots of cheap seats frequently, or by spending more on VA and their partners for you and your family pool, we were all working with the same criteria so one type of elite is not more valuable than another.

For myself, I've been either SG or WP for most of the last 12 years (based on having joined AFF in 2012 and quickly 'learning'). Originally it was because you needed min. SG for a points upgrade from Y+ to J on VA1 SYD-LAX. By the time that disappeared I was 'used to' the status and kept it up, and as a solo self-funded leisure traveller it was always 'fun' to figure out where I would go next based on maximum SC earn.

The last couple of years I've been meaning to sit down and properly work out whether VFF status is valuable to me at all as (A) I use very few status perks, and (B) they don't fly anywhere I want to go. As it seems VFF has now answered that for me, I feel so free! I can now use my points* for flights that give zero status credits; I can fly routes and airlines without being tethered to Velocity (airlines that actually have their own international lounges); and I don't have to pretend that being WP on an airline that doesn't even have flat seats is anything to aim for.

I'll miss the priority check-in and boarding, but that's still a couple of years away with plenty of time to put on my big girl pants on and get over it, and savings on sale fares from other airlines will be used on the AMEX PC - I could never 'justify' the cost of the card as well as keeping up VFF status, but my new freedom now makes it a very pleasant and viable option.

LTG would have been something to aim for, but I feel their lol some of your previous SC's now aren't worth sht bait 'n switch is highly distasteful, and not something I want to reward with my loyalty. They should have at the very least had the LTG data available to all members at the same time as the announcement.....simple....fair.

*just crossed the 1M threshold, today in fact!

 

[BrianQQ]

As well as QR being in OW, within OW they own 25% of IAG (BA and IB), 10% of Cathay an 49% of Rwandair (rumoured as a potential OW member). They'd have to either

Air China owns a larger stake in CX, yet is still happy for it to be in OW so I don't see why VA cannot be in *A, considering its partners of AC, NZ and SQ are of *A.

Do not disagree with the sentiment that they are gonna take yoinks to join an alliance, if ever though.

It is simply in the best interest for VA not to be aligned to any alliances. They can strike partnerships and JV with a greater number of airlines than what *A and ST can provide

Really?

Because from what I see it, watered-down agreements with lounge access and uh.. whatever the Hainan Airlines partnership is, is proving not to work well with Velocity as it stands.

 

[HS-TQE]

Air China owns a larger stake in CX, yet is still happy for it to be in OW so I don't see why VA cannot be in *A, considering its partners of AC, NZ and SQ are of *A.

Do not disagree with the sentiment that they are gonna take yoinks to join an alliance, if ever though.

VA 1.0 had large stakes by both SQ and NZ simultaneously at one point, yet decided to remain outside of the Alliances under both Borghetti and Scurrah.

VA.1.0 also had deeper JVs with rivals EY and DL (Skyteam) which were formed back in the DJ era, which both are now dissolved (replaced by the QR and UA codeshare partnerships) when VA 2.0 emerged from bankruptcy.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I've noticed two sides in this thread - those who will be affected by the lower SC earn who emphasise the 'frequent' part of the program, and those affected by the devaluation of their 'loyalty' to the the program. I think both sides are valid in their disappointment and my key outtake from reading these pages is that they've sha-t on their frequent and loyal members. Whether you've attained status by flying on lots of cheap seats frequently, or by spending more on VA and their partners for you and your family pool, we were all working with the same criteria so one type of elite is not more valuable than another.

The last couple of years I've been meaning to sit down and properly work out whether VFF status is valuable to me at all as (A) I use very few status perks, and (B) they don't fly anywhere I want to go. As it seems VFF has now answered that for me, I feel so free! I can now use my points* for flights that give zero status credits; I can fly routes and airlines without being tethered to Velocity (airlines that actually have their own international lounges); and I don't have to pretend that being WP on an airline that doesn't even have flat seats is anything to aim for.

I remember back in 2019 when United moved from a strictly miles flown system for accumulating status (at least for overseas elites) to one now based on quasi-dollars spent, I had a similar panic attack. I was using United status a lot so there was a lot of value in keeping it, but I couldn't justify spending the many thousands of dollars USD to keep status each and every year. Initially it felt like a betrayal by United. After all, I planned all of my travel around that airline, sometimes flying with United even if it added hours to my travel time or crossing the wrong international oceans (once I flew Berlin Tegel to Osaka Japan via Dusseldorf, Las Vegas, and San Francisco just to keep to mostly UA metal). I understood the system really well and knew what it took to keep status. Then they just flip the bloody checker board and I'm left trying to pick up the pieces. I spoke to a dear travel colleague (who by the way is an AC Million Miler) and she told me I need to take a step back and re-evaluate what is going on. I'm glad I did, and made the switch to Qantas.

This is not to say I'll never fly United again (indeed I flew them back in August in Polaris business class as part of a Virgin Australia award back to Sydney). But I'll be clever in how I fly them. If I can status match them now against my Qantas Gold and take one trip to Europe from Australia to earn Premier Gold status for a year so be it. But I'm not going out of my way to chase the status. Life is too short to sit middle seat in coach just so you can claim you're Medallion Palladium.

I'll miss the priority check-in and boarding, but that's still a couple of years away with plenty of time to put on my big girl pants on and get over it, and savings on sale fares from other airlines will be used on the AMEX PC - I could never 'justify' the cost of the card as well as keeping up VFF status, but my new freedom now makes it a very pleasant and viable option.

IME much of the benefits aren't amazing. Yes, lounge access is nice, as is seat selection, but one must ask the question is it really worth going out of your way for these benefits? There's some status out there where a credible argument towards chasing status could be made. For instance, LATAM Black gives you 8 international upgrade certificates every year to upgrade their flights from economy to business. And unlike other airlines, LATAM Black members are second in order of upgrades.

LTG would have been something to aim for, but I feel their lol some of your previous SC's now aren't worth sht bait 'n switch is highly distasteful, and not something I want to reward with my loyalty. They should have at the very least had the LTG data available to all members at the same time as the announcement.....simple....fair.

Lifetime status makes sense so long as there is a viable way to get there. Looking at Virgin Australia, United and Air Canada as examples, they require you to earn all of those status credits flying with them (or at least on a flight marketed by them). For me that's plain unrealistic, especially for long haul flights where you're just not going to find a Virgin Australia flight to LA or Paris. Contrast this with Air France/KLM, where the requirement is attainable: 10 consecutive years of top tier status gets you lifetime top tier status with Air France/KLM (and therefore SkyTeam). Yes that is a big hurdle, but it is one that is attainable for some people. Meanwhile Qantas and Asiana let you earn lifetime status based on flights you take operated by them and partners, which opens up a huge opportunity for travellers, especially those who are nomads.

-RooFlyer88

 

[jase05]

Because from what I see it, watered-down agreements with lounge access and uh.

This is the issue.
I’d prefer partnerships over joining an alliance but the partnerships have to be done properly. At the moment that isn’t the case

 

[jase05]

but one must ask the question is it really worth going out of your way for these benefits?

Many like myself aren’t going out of our way though. The status comes because of the flying.
We have 2 airlines in Australia, I need to fly 20-30 times on average per year for leisure domestically so even If I choose BFOD then more than likely 9 out of 10 flights are going to be VA so in absence of any other other real FFP options currently I credit them o VA and when I hit Platinum I have the option to keep piling them up or credit some to EY, VS etc

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

Air China owns a larger stake in CX, yet is still happy for it to be in OW so I don't see why VA cannot be in *A, considering its partners of AC, NZ and SQ are of *A.

Air China only acquired their stake in CX in 2006, while Cathay was already a founding member of OW since 1998 - if CX had been unaligned in 2006, Air China would likely have pushed for them to be in *A. Qatar also owns 9.61% of CX!

Ultimately it will be what makes sense to VA and I don't think their strategy is an alliance (which aren't really all that we think them to be). Compared to recent alliance moves, VA is more similar to LATAM than SAS:

• SAS was never able to join the *A TATL JV (for some reason) and now with AFKL's investment it made business sense for them to join ST with the stated goal being to join the ST TATL JV - and the reality of the three alliances is that they are basically anchored around those TATL JVs
• LATAM being invested in by Delta meant they left OW but the Latin American market has limited similar competitors (like the Australian market) and it makes more sense for them to be outside alliance and partner with key airlines wanting to access that market. At least LATAM has a decent international network vs VA - as well as Qatar having a 10% ownership stake!

Ive always held Air NZ responsible for the demise of Ansett, which is why i refuse to fly them.

It was the 50/50 JV ownership of Ansett since 1979 by News Corp / TNT that ultimately doomed it by becoming the bloated carrier with a dog's breakfast of a fleet that it had while Murdoch and Abeles milked it. When it went into administration it still had 11 different plane types - excluding those flown by Kendall and Hazelton. For comparison, QF is a much larger airline and currently operates only 5 types.

Air NZ bought TNT's 50% in 1995 but because of the way the JV was set up, there was a limit to what they could control, let alone the information they could get about the operations. I know someone who was at Ansett at the time, and in February 2000 when Air NZ finally acquired control and they were finally allowed to see the details of the sorry state of the operation did they realise what a basket case they'd been handed and almost took them down with it.

 

[fkcn]

Anyone else get their VFF points statement yet? Got mine, and double/triple bonus SCs don’t seem to be included. Weren’t they earned on VA flights, and therefore should be included? Lounges will be empty at this rate. But, as pointed out, that may be the idea.

 

[BrianQQ]

Ultimately it will be what makes sense to VA and I don't think their strategy is an alliance (which aren't really all that we think them to be).

Which makes sense if VA 2.0 were to continue with the strategy of building on the basis of loyalty and brand awareness. However, they decided to roll this out way too soon, hence why we are debating on the optics of this change.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

• SAS was never able to join the *A TATL JV (for some reason)

Because there’s only one Star Alliance airlines in Europe: the Lufthansa Group (consisting of Lufthansa, Swiss, Austrian, Brussels Airline (formerly Sabena) and a ton of smaller regional airlines like Air Domilitti. Sure you could point to LOT and SAS but their route network (esp trans-Atlantic is tiny) which is why AC and UA did a JV with LH versus everyone. Remember the point of a joint venture is coordinate schedules, pricing and benefits so you can better “service” the customer. Being part of the alliance already got everyone a bunch of benefits like frequent flyer award seat access and reciprocal benefits when flying with members of the alliance. This is just the extra mile that airlines go above and beyond to “service” the customer. Other notable Jabs in Star Alliance include those between UA and AC and UA and NH. Indeed, you can use upgrade credits from your United status to upgrade flights operated by NH and LH (in addition to UA). This is a benefit I haven’t seen elsewhere.

-RooFlyer88

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Apologies for not including the bit by late comedian George Carlin explaining what it means to “service” the customer:

 

[henrus]

Anyone else get their VFF points statement yet? Got mine, and double/triple bonus SCs don’t seem to be included. Weren’t they earned on VA flights, and therefore should be included? Lounges will be empty at this rate. But, as pointed out, that may be the idea.

Yeh I got mine and everything including bonus SC's are included

For the recent pick double points or SC it shows like the following:


For the recent triple SC:



Earlier promotions like this 2019 bonus show like this:



It's going to be really interesting to see what counts and what doesn't count towards lifetime, there are so many different "partners" listed on my statement (and these are just related to SCs):
- Virgin Australia (VA operated/marketed flights from April 2022)
- Virgin Australia Domestic (shown for all VA domestic flights pre April 2022)
- FFPDEPT (shown for family pooling and recent double/triple SC promotions)
- Virgin Australia International (shown for VA marketed but partner operated)
- Virgin Australia Sth East Asia (shown for VA operated Trans Tasman flights)
- Velocity Auxiliary Acct (used for correcting points/SCs during an incorrect credit)
- Loyalty Co (same as above)
- Velocity FF Marketing Company (2019 promo for bonus SCs and covid SC gifts)

I've also got partner airlines listed including; Delta, Air New Zealand, Qatar Airways, Singapore Airlines, Hawaiian.

 

[JohnK]

Question for all these people disappointed with the changes: what are you going to do?

Move back to Qantas where cash fares are higher, points redemptions are higher, status requirements are equal if not higher?

Start flying Jetstar? Stop flying altogether? They're typically already the BFOD outside of Jetstar so that won't change a whole lot.

Not going back to Qantas. Lifetime Gold already and not chasing status on ridiculously expensive airfares.

May go to BFOD and some JQ flights OOL-SYD can be cheap. If not I'll continue with Virgin flights as they are next cheapest.

I think we have status for another 2 years. Wife will be Platinum end of Jan 25 and I will drop to Gold in a few days and not sure I can make Gold one time before these changes kick in.

Long range hope JQ BNE-BKK is successful as I have enough Qantas points for 7 returns each for wife, daughter and myself. Lounge access in BNE and who cares about lounge in BKK.

If airline ls are going to keep moving goalposts then we'll stop playing and go for cheapest.

 

[SCM]

So is now (ie. before October 2025) a good time to do domestic business status runs, since now for eg. platinum, I need 400 SCs from VA? That's either one full priced J flight to EU (well because nobody seems to discount anymore), or a bunch of domestic business...