Major changes to Velocity Frequent Flyer announced 17/10/24

[Ryan Bingham]

But I did see something I never saw in a QF lounge. A lady produced her thermos and emptied the contents of a bottle of white wine into it.

Dang, someone guested Mrs Bingham. Again.

 

[Happy Dude]

And today in SYD the tables have been cleared virtually immediately.
But I did see something I never saw in a QF lounge. A lady produced her thermos and emptied the contents of a bottle of white wine into it.

Well some of the wines are bit young to drink straight out of the bottle!

 

[Sprucegoose]

I read many QF WPs attain their status during DSC promos with less than 8 QF sectors flown.

Many Australian businesses have not mastered data analytics.

There are around (say) 50,000 WPs (commercially held information), and Qantas would be the only one to know their flying habits.

If Qantas could harvest that information, it would be commercially valuable in understadning the cash generation for each of these promotions.

Meeting the eight sectors' requirements poses no real challenge.

BDB/BNE/SYD/MEL/LST and return, and Bob is your father's brother.

 

[serfty]

A Sale dropped yesterday and is on until Monday with travel up to June (varies by route and there are blackout dates).

SC's can be had for around $3.80 each in Business. e.g. MEL-CNS is $399 direct but only earns 80 SC but MEL-xBNE-CNS is $610, earning 160 SC, MEL-BNE/OOL is $319 for 80 SC. I have only checked a few routes.

This is less than ⅓ of the $ requirement in earning SC that would be in place from April 2nd.

I am pretty sure there's no co-incidence.

 

[Sprucegoose]

It’ll be sooner than that. We are almost certain Qantas will have a DSC sometime in late Feb or March. At the same time Qantas will be chasing those soon to be Virgin Australia refugees. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, expect to see a DSC promotion by Virgin before end of year.

Remember flights booked before the changeover date will earn at the current actual rate.

Perhaps. Alternatively they can use this opportunity to also make the switch to revenue since they’ll have some cover with Virgin’s swath of recent enhancements

Is this the same Delta Airways which require spending $10,000 USD on Delta flights (excluding taxes and surcharges) for mid tier Gold status or $28,000 USD for top tier Diamond status every year? The same one that doesn’t allow their top tier Diamond medallion holders to access their SkyClub lounges unless travelling international on Premium Economy or better? The same one that is limiting the number of free visits on U.S. AmEx Platinum card holders to their lounge to 10 starting next year? The same one that despite these restrictions have lounges packed to the gills? Say it ain’t so!

He does have a point though. U.S. airline elite programs are unique in that one of the publicized benefits are complimentary upgrades on domestic flights for elites. Well if the plane has 60 elite members on it your upgrade list will be 60 long. In essence this makes this a published benefit that in fact you cannot use unless you have super top tier status and are booked on a pricey Y fare. At which point why not just fly J out of pocket?

-RooFlyer88

Yeah, I get all that.

But let's zoom out and appreciate their (overall) business strategy and the fact that they are probably the most profitable airline based in the USA.

I would never dispute the importance of airline loyalty, but getting everything else right is also essential. Otherwise, running an airline would be horrendous, akin to running a hospital or health system.

You dont want loyal customers if they are dirt poor and have the persuasive influence of a sewer rat. There are some customers you dont want at all.

Two words - Strategy and Culture- and probably not in that order.

 

[Happy Dude]

Remember flights booked before the changeover date will earn at the current actual rate.

Yes I hadn't forgotten and I'd hoped that would have been obvious in my post.

It’ll be sooner than that. We are almost certain Qantas will have a DSC sometime in late Feb or March. At the same time Qantas will be chasing those soon to be Virgin Australia refugees. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, expect to see a DSC promotion by Virgin before end of year.

Given there's been a decent sale this week that includes J, not sure why you're so certain on any of these things.

But I hope you're right. Many will be looking to lock in some SCs before the price rise and get a 12 month stay of execution.

 

[JohnK]

Seems to me Virgin had to offer something really attractive to lure pax back after the pandemic. Let's face it, reaching status has been absurdly easy.

They seem to have made a commercial decision that having reeled us in they've got most of us hooked. It's a commercial decision.

So stop all these silly double SCs and triple SCs promotions that gift status and not make wholesale changes to your frequent flyer program.

 

[Leroy87]

A Sale dropped yesterday and is on until Monday with travel up to June (varies by route and there are blackout dates).

SC's can be had for around $3.80 each in Business. e.g. MEL-CNS is $399 direct and earns 105 SC, MEL-xBNE-CNS is $610, earning 160 SC, MEL-BNE/OOL is $319 for 80 SC. I have only checked a few routes.

This is less than ⅓ of the $ requirement in earning SC that would be in place from April 2nd.

I am pretty sure there's no co-incidence.

Cough... MEL-CNS is only 80SC sadly.

One of those unusual cases where adding a stopover MEL-BNE-CNS doubles your SC earn.

 

[MooTime]

So stop all these silly double SCs and triple SCs promotions that gift status and not make wholesale changes to your frequent flyer program.

Exactly.

We don't want too many elite's, but we'll throw out these biannual DSC offers to get more bookings & in turn increasing elites.
At least with Family Pooling, your paying for each seat & each SC, $$ to VA/Bain, DSC very different, gifting status!

Glad it's not just me seeing this hypocrisy.

 

[serfty]

Cough... MEL-CNS is only 80SC sadly.

Thanks, brain fade ..

 

[odysseus]

I'm not so sure about that. This may end up yielding the desired outcomes for Virgin. Those who split travel between Virgin and Qantas (to earn status on both) might end up focusing their spend on Virgin to keep status. To my knowledge, every airline that has implemented revenue based status accrual (either partially or fully) has not turned back, and there are many to point to: Air Canada, United, Delta to name but a few.

Not that I'm predicting a big backtrack, but keep in mind those are 'full service airlines' with large international networks and corporate clients so there will not be a mass migration. VA is not in the same league as those and is self declared 'value'. Essentially there is not so much to rely on as any of those other airlines.

 

[elanshin]

Exactly.

We don't want too many elite's, but we'll throw out these biannual DSC offers to get more bookings & in turn increasing elites.
At least with Family Pooling, your paying for each seat & each SC, $$ to VA/Bain, DSC very different, gifting status!

Glad it's not just me seeing this hypocrisy.

I always thought family pooling was a bit generous and that was before this year where we had 3? 4? DSC and a TSC. Oh and flybuys SC granted thats limited.

You could argue that family pooling was an interesting twist for VA given they need a bit more legs to stand on for status compared to QF and it definitely works.

There definitely is a lot more we want to force this massive enhancement through and we're going to try to spin it up as best as we can without any sweeteners.

 

[PERLHR]

I always thought family pooling was a bit generous and that was before this year where we had 3? 4? DSC and a TSC. Oh and flybuys SC granted thats limited.

You could argue that family pooling was an interesting twist for VA given they need a bit more legs to stand on for status compared to QF and it definitely works.

There definitely is a lot more we want to force this massive enhancement through and we're going to try to spin it up as best as we can without any sweeteners.

I think family pooling is novel and a good thing. I'm thinking generally a lot of VA travellers are leisure. They may travel, quite often, on many sectors as couples or family's. The pooling could be the reason why they choose Virgin over Qantas or Jetstar.

 

[MooTime]

I always thought family pooling was a bit generous and that was before this year where we had 3? 4? DSC and a TSC. Oh and flybuys SC granted thats limited.

You could argue that family pooling was an interesting twist for VA given they need a bit more legs to stand on for status compared to QF and it definitely works.

There definitely is a lot more we want to force this massive enhancement through and we're going to try to spin it up as best as we can without any sweeteners.

Well put @elanshin
Couldn't agree more @PERLHR re family pooling, VA want to be different...now they sure are different, in an uglier way IMO.

Should've just increased the total SCs required to attain / maintain, closer to QF totals.
Still introduced Platinum+
Still introduced Forever Gold

 

[elanshin]

I think family pooling is novel and a good thing. I'm thinking generally a lot of VA travellers are leisure. They may travel, quite often, on many sectors as couples or family's. The pooling could be the reason why they choose Virgin over Qantas or Jetstar.

Oh definitely and I always found it a novel good trait to have in their program.

I was about to write an easy way to fix family pooling but then I realised it's still currently a thing going forward and I don't want to give them ideas to enhance that as well.

 

[VPS]

And today in SYD the tables have been cleared virtually immediately.
But I did see something I never saw in a QF lounge. A lady produced her thermos and emptied the contents of a bottle of white wine into it.

I must take my metal water bottle with me next week because I prefer red wine

 

[serfty]

I must take my metal water bottle with me next week because I prefer red wine

Make sure the water bottle is corrosion proof - have you tasted the Hardy's wine in the VA lounges lately?

 

[TMP]

at this rate, future definitely doesn't look good for VA growing back into a full fledged full service carrier with selected LH routes and her own widebodies

Nothing, not even the new QR proposal, since administration in 2020 has even remotely suggested this was ever going to occur.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Nothing, not even the new QR proposal, since administration in 2020 has even remotely suggested this was ever going to occur.

Completely agree here. I don't see how an airline can setup in this region to serve international long haul traffic. Sure maybe one airline that is the national carrier for AU or NZ (or Fiji for that matter) but that's about it. People regularly forget that Australia, while large geographically is a small part of the planet and global aviation. Any city in this region be it NZ or PER is always gonna be a poor hub for an international route network. Whereas the Middle East 3 are geographically located between Europe, Asia and Africa (making connections to/from these regions a breeze) the same cannot be said about Australia or New Zealand for that matter. From anywhere in the world you are travelling the better part of a day to here before flying the better part of a day somewhere else. And it's a geographic peculiarity of this part of the world. Singapore, Tokyo, Paris, Toronto, Los Angeles, Mexico City, they are all great city to build out a massive international airline because of their geographic proximity to other continents. I have flown through some of these very hubs to save considerable money at a small cost to time. Two examples that come to mind are flying London Heathrow to Sydney via Los Angeles on United. Obviously that is technically not the most direct way to get to Australia from the UK. But the time being added to the itinerary is only a few hours and for that I save over a thousand bucks return on the flight and was able to secure an upgrade to business class the whole way, so a real no brainer. Similarly, flying Berlin to Osaka, I flew via Dusseldorf, Las Vegas and San Francisco. Again, not the most direct route but in this case similar modus operandi. Now contrast that with Australia. If I were to fly Qantas from Los Angeles to Paris, I'd spend 15 hours to Sydney, 4.5 hours to Perth, and then another 17 hours to Paris. And that's not counting the connection time in Perth and Sydney either! In other words multiple days, for a trip that would take maybe 11 hours nonstop, if that.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the international air market is far more competitive than the domestic market. Not only that it is more costly to operate such flights. There are generally more things included (and expected) on such fares like meals and baggage. They also are on the hook for more liability under the Montreal Convention and EU261. Indeed, Qantas makes more money off domestic flights than international flights for such reasons. The domestic market is not exciting. Airlines don't win awards for their service between the Sunshine Coast and Melbourne. But it is a strong source of solid revenue thanks in part to government regulation that makes it impossible for foreign airlines to setup shop here and provide domestic service. And for Virgin, the one thing they need to do is return to profitability. Anyone who has followed this airline for long enough (including its 1.0 days) will realize how hard that will be. But it's something customers will want for Virgin to remain a going concern (remember their customers aren't you, it's Bain).

-RooFlyer88

 

[33kft]

People regularly forget that Australia, while large geographically is a small part of the planet and global aviation.

I don't think they do. I think we're pretty aware of our geography. Especially those who fly internationally on a regular basis.

Any city in this region be it NZ or PER is always gonna be a poor hub for an international route network.

I am not sure that I've seen anyone in good faith suggest that AU or NZ would make a good business case for an international aviation hub? This seems like an unsolicited lecture on a topic that could be best described as painfully apparent.

The original question asked about long haul flights and while that's clearly not part of the VA2.0 strategy, consumer preferences for direct flights mean that there are viable alternatives to the hub-spoke services offered through those locations. To suggest that there's no market for airlines without the geographic positioning that these hubs enjoy is provably false in the sheer number of international routes operated to and from this region.