Marriage Equality

[phily]

One of the common arguments used against SSM is that "every child deserves both a father and a mother". It's worth a bit of discussion.

My attitude to this is that to agree with the principle, but that it's a poor argument against SSM. Yes, all children should live with or have access to both of their biological parents, but it is an ideal rather than a requirement, or even a reality in some cases (divorce, death, abuse etc). Many children have a step-parent, many live with only one parent, and many of these children grow up to be very successful. It's the quality of the parenting that counts, not their sexuality.

 

[MarkD]

Meh, who wants to get married anyway. Been there done that, my advice to gay straight, bi, tri or any combination of sexual preference... As soon as the M word is spoken, run like buggery

 

[MarkD]

Id like to see laws that stop dirty stinking smelly junkies reproducing too, but thats not going to happen

 

[straitman]

Back to the topic please people.

 

[Kolo]

If you haven't grown up feeling an outsider you have no idea how important this issue is for young gay people. Marriage equality means that a young gay person can see that they have the same future options as everyone else; that they are not second class citizens who need to hide their feelings. It doesn't matter how this gets done; what matters is that it gets done.

 

[amaroo]

Plebiscite seems the likely outcome...all sides should be happy with that.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

There will be no change on this issue under an Abbott Government.
He is personally opposed to it and the hard right have the numbers in the Federal Liberal Party room.
So even if a moderate was elected leader for electoral appeal they would be hamstrung on this issue.
They will prevent a plebicite (which would be won) or a conscience vote (which would be lost anyway).
The only prospect of change in the near future is for Labor to adopt a binding policy and win government.

 

[JohnM]

If you haven't grown up feeling an outsider you have no idea how important this issue is for young gay people. Marriage equality means that a young gay person can see that they have the same future options as everyone else; that they are not second class citizens who need to hide their feelings. It doesn't matter how this gets done; what matters is that it gets done.

Totally respect your POV - but given that c. 50% of 'conventional' marriages' 'future options' become divorce, I respectfully - and regretfully - suggest that Nirvana is not guaranteed.

 

[sergeyvzn]

Totally respect your POV - but given that c. 50% of 'conventional' marriages' 'future options' become divorce, I respectfully - and regretfully - suggest that Nirvana is not guaranteed.

We understand that. Being able to get a divorce, paradoxically, is equally important. If a straight couple has a right to divorce why can't we

 

[james4321]

Totally respect your POV - but given that c. 50% of 'conventional' marriages' 'future options' become divorce, I respectfully - and regretfully - suggest that Nirvana is not guaranteed.

With respect JohnM you are missing the point. It's having the choice which is the important thing.

 

[burmans]

Totally respect your POV - but given that c. 50% of 'conventional' marriages' 'future options' become divorce, I respectfully - and regretfully - suggest that Nirvana is not guaranteed.

Its not guaranteed for straight people either but we don't stop them.

 

[JohnM]

With respect JohnM you are missing the point. It's having the choice which is the important thing.

Oh, I'm not suggesting that there be a ban on SSM. Quite happy with freedom of choice. I'm just suggesting that what seems to be an implicit presumed or hoped-for Nirvana is quite likely to not materialise - as occurs for many 'conventional' marriages - and therefore disappointment is a likely outcome.

After being conventionally married, I would choose to never do it again. As they say: a second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.

But a vexed question, nevertheless.

 

[dajop]

If you haven't grown up feeling an outsider you have no idea how important this issue is for young gay people. Marriage equality means that a young gay person can see that they have the same future options as everyone else; that they are not second class citizens who need to hide their feelings. It doesn't matter how this gets done; what matters is that it gets done.

Admire your sentiments and your optimism. Whilst I agree that marriage equality adds options that others have, and provides a level of equality before the law, it is more evolution than revolution, at least in Australia where I don't know, 95-98% of the rights that married couples have, are shared by same (or opposite) sex domestic partners. Maybe it can play a role improving the self esteem of the young, and help people (to some extent) think they don't need to hide their feelings, but personally, I think it will make very little difference. Either people accept you (and your partner) as you are or they don't. A ceremony and a piece of paper is not going to change that.

It's interesting living in a part of the world far less tolerant of all things gay, and I am somewhat guarded at work about being open about my sexuality when dealing with a range of people and some fairly conservative cultures. I have recently changed jobs and gradually working out how to position my relationship etc, with new colleagues. I am certainly comfortable talking about my partner (such is the sexual ambiguity and a realisation that not all westerners get married), but if I was married would not feel comfortable talking about my husband!

Melbourne, and Australia, seem like utopia in comparison! The sensitivity here is such that when an episode of Glee aired that dealt with gay marriage, it was about 15 mins shorter than it should have been (although it is hard to tell whether it is being censored for Malaysia, Singapore or both). In fact when watching the episode, although it was obvious two women were married during the episode (without actually seeing/hearing the wedding vows), it wasn't until reading a blog some time later I realised two guys were also married in the same episodes. Thankful though this is not the middle east.

 

[Pushka]

Totally respect your POV - but given that c. 50% of 'conventional' marriages' 'future options' become divorce, I respectfully - and regretfully - suggest that Nirvana is not guaranteed.

That isnt the issue at all. And just maybe same sex marriages might even be more successful.

I am probably not posting here in this thread again as it seems to have become a hate - political - budget - thread. Not interested in that debate in this topic or on AFF forum anymore. Shame the actual topic cant be discussed really.

 

[JessicaTam]

Off topic posts have been deleted.

 

[Claire Lee]

I wouldn't have thought a Frequent Flyer forum would be an arena for this type of discussion however I'm quickly finding anything goes!

My thoughts are simplistic, contracted and partisan - marriage is marriage and regardless of the archaic views of many, marriage is a bond between two people whom love is the bond, and who have the right and ethical / moral high-ground to make their own choice regardless of sex.

 

[serfty]

I wouldn't have thought a Frequent Flyer forum would be an arena for this type of discussion however I'm quickly finding anything goes! ...

Sure, but it's not quite "Anything goes".

Note this particular sub forum is called "the playground" - it is a location for reasonalble comment/discussion about subjects of general nature that are not specifically related to travel.

 

[Claire Lee]

Sure, but it's not quite "Anything goes".

Note this particular sub forum is called "the playground" - it is a location for reasonalble comment/discussion about subjects of general nature that are not specifically related to travel.

I stand corrected and will climb back under my rock where I have been hiding since the last person on this forum snapped at me like that... Au Revoir dear sir..

 

[dajop]

I stand corrected and will climb back under my rock where I have been hiding since the last person on this forum snapped at me like that... Au Revoir dear sir..

I don't think serfty was "snapping" at you, more directed at others!! You are right anything goes (within reason) as far as topics go in the playground (don't have to be linked to frequent flying) ...... and topics like gay marriage can be freely discussed ........ but anything does not go in terms of straying from said topic nor in terms of personal abuse! FWIW, not sure if you saw any of the deleted posts but they were decidedly off topic and strayed into party politics on other issue superfluous to this discussion. Those who have been around for a while have seen numerous threads go that way.

 

[DrA]

Totally respect your POV - but given that c. 50% of 'conventional' marriages' 'future options' become divorce, I respectfully - and regretfully - suggest that Nirvana is not guaranteed.

I was raised in a conventional household with both parents. Abusive parents. I would have much rather been raised in a loving same-sex household where both actually wanted kids.