Medical diversion out of the USA

[Quickstatus]

I have been looking through QantasSource regarding Medical diversions out of the USA and on Qf in particular.

I appears that of the 13 MD since Sept 2012, all except one diverted to HNL. (one diverted to BNE)

The suggestion is that the emergency occurred fairly early in the flight perhaps within 3 hours of the aircraft doors closing.

Most passengers when ill will want to try to fly. The implication is that a medical condition existed preflight on some of these and were able to initially able to cope, but worsened as the flight progressed.( I understand that cabin crew are on the lookout for passengers who might not be in a position to fly and might have prevented some from flying at the boarding stage).

On the latest one at least on Aug 22 (QF93) the flightmap suggested that the decision to divert was quite early on in the flight as the direction of travel did not involve a turnback or a significant modification in direction.

Obviously this is a bit of speculation but not completely crazy.
Comments?

 

[jb747]

I have been looking through QantasSource regarding Medical diversions out of the USA and on Qf in particular.

I appears that of the 13 MD since Sept 2012, all except one diverted to HNL. (one diverted to BNE)

The suggestion is that the emergency occurred fairly early in the flight perhaps within 3 hours of the aircraft doors closing.

Most passengers when ill will want to try to fly. The implication is that a medical condition existed preflight on some of these and were able to initially able to cope, but worsened as the flight progressed.( I understand that cabin crew are on the lookout for passengers who might not be in a position to fly and might have prevented some from flying at the boarding stage).

On the latest one at least on Aug 22 (QF93) the flightmap suggested that the decision to divert was quite early on in the flight as the direction of travel did not involve a turnback or a significant modification in direction.

Obviously this is a bit of speculation but not completely crazy.
Comments?

Honolulu is often overflown on the plan, so I don't think you can read anything into that (routing). It's also about 4 hours to HNL, so any decision made after 2 hours, will invariably be to go there.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what you're getting at.....

 

[Austman]

Are the A380s more likely to have a medical emergency than other aircraft simply because they carry many more passengers and the flight times are usually much longer?

In other words, statistically, they are more likely?

 

[Quickstatus]

Honolulu is often overflown on the plan, so I don't think you can read anything into that (routing). It's also about 4 hours to HNL, so any decision made after 2 hours, will invariably be to go there.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what you're getting at.....

Suggesting that maybe some of the diversions (because it's relatively early in flight plan ) is occurring due to passengers who had an acute medical illness that started before boarding that was not apparent to the cabin crew at boarding time. Then it gets worse and the pax can't cope and crew has to consult medlink (or whoever the ground contact is) who says HNL

The relative lack of medical diversion later in flight suggests that most inflight medical emergencies did not start from scratch inflight.

 

[eric2011]

Perhaps with the outrageous cost of medical in the States, people who have a medical problem arise while on holiday and know they shouldn't fly actually do in an attempt to get home where they have medical assistance at a much better cost

 

[Quickstatus]

Perhaps with the outrageous cost of medical in the States, people who have a medical problem arise while on holiday and know they shouldn't fly actually do in an attempt to get home where they have medical assistance at a much better cost

Or maybe they think it will be OK and its just a "muscle strain" or perhaps they would (naturally) would prefer to be sick at home in familiar surroundings than in a hospital in LAX/DFW etc.

Apparently cruise ship passengers get told to not board if they recently has gastro. But most will answer negative to that request and still board and then infect everyone on board.

 

[jb747]

Suggesting that maybe some of the diversions (because it's relatively early in flight plan ) is occurring due to passengers who had an acute medical illness that started before boarding that was not apparent to the cabin crew at boarding time. Then it gets worse and the pax can't cope and crew has to consult medlink (or whoever the ground contact is) who says HNL

The relative lack of medical diversion later in flight suggests that most inflight medical emergencies did not start from scratch inflight.

There are certainly many people who board the flight who should not.... Who knows why...get-home-itis.

My experience of medical calls is that they occur throughout the flight. The only times I've seriously looked at diverting was in the latter third of London-Singapore and Brisbane-Hong Kong.

There's not a lot of choices on the Pacific flights....Honolulu, covers about half of the flight, after which there's only Nadi. There are some other airfields that we may use for aircraft problems but which won't be used for medical issues.

 

[drron]

On the other hand there are times when ill patients really need to travel.The medical emergency I attended on JAL was a woman being referred to the Sloan Kettering institute in NYC.Fortunately her doctors had anticipated problems including tubes for blood cultures and supplies of IV antibiotics so that diversion wasn't needed.
But there are times when people are scared of costs.A fellow I knew well,not a patient,had severe asthma.Was having difficulties when he boarded in Honolulu but felt he couldn't afford to go to hospital there.He never made it home.

 

[marki]

Awful stuff Asthma it kills

 

[ICUDr]

Patients are require to provide a medical clearance certificate.
QF does have a policy regarding flying when sick or after being discharged from a hospital. - I'm sure VA would have it too -

However this doesn't get requested by the cabin crew unless the person looks indeed unwell (to their untrained medical eye), the PAX comes on a wheelchair escorted by a health professional or the airline is aware that a patient has been discharged from a hospital and said hospital has organised the patient's transfer back home.

I help a pregnant woman in Mel. We were at the gate waiting to board to BNE. She felt unwell while seating down then a kind person lay her down on the floor, moments later she was unresponsive. Among the caos I intervened by rolling her on her side -a heavy baby puts pressure on the mums abdominal part aorta so mums could pass out while lying flat on her back- minutes later she was awake talking to us.

The cabin attendant asked for a doctor's clearance, which she had... 20 minutes later we were on our way to BNE with her sitting next to me.

Just wanted to bring to your attention how flexible/unreliable? this rules could be as they are enforced by non health professionals.

There is a very good presentation given by the medical director of Qantas about medical emergencies. I could email the link to anyone who might be interested

 

[Quickstatus]

Patients are require to provide a medical clearance certificate.
QF does have a policy regarding flying when sick or after being discharged from a hospital. - I'm sure VA would have it too -

However this doesn't get requested by the cabin crew unless the person looks indeed unwell (to their untrained medical eye), the PAX comes on a wheelchair escorted by a health professional or the airline is aware that a patient has been discharged from a hospital and said hospital has organised the patient's transfer back home.

I help a pregnant woman in Mel. We were at the gate waiting to board to BNE. She felt unwell while seating down then a kind person lay her down on the floor, moments later she was unresponsive. Among the caos I intervened by rolling her on her side -a heavy baby puts pressure on the mums abdominal part aorta so mums could pass out while lying flat on her back- minutes later she was awake talking to us.

The cabin attendant asked for a doctor's clearance, which she had... 20 minutes later we were on our way to BNE with her sitting next to me.

Just wanted to bring to your attention how flexible/unreliable? this rules could be as they are enforced by non health professionals.

There is a very good presentation given by the medical director of Qantas about medical emergencies. I could email the link to anyone who might be interested

Please do. Pm me for email

 

[docjames]

Patients are require to provide a medical clearance certificate.
QF does have a policy regarding flying when sick or after being discharged from a hospital. - I'm sure VA would have it too -

However this doesn't get requested by the cabin crew unless the person looks indeed unwell (to their untrained medical eye), the PAX comes on a wheelchair escorted by a health professional or the airline is aware that a patient has been discharged from a hospital and said hospital has organised the patient's transfer back home.

I help a pregnant woman in Mel. We were at the gate waiting to board to BNE. She felt unwell while seating down then a kind person lay her down on the floor, moments later she was unresponsive. Among the caos I intervened by rolling her on her side -a heavy baby puts pressure on the mums abdominal part aorta so mums could pass out while lying flat on her back- minutes later she was awake talking to us.

The cabin attendant asked for a doctor's clearance, which she had... 20 minutes later we were on our way to BNE with her sitting next to me.

Just wanted to bring to your attention how flexible/unreliable? this rules could be as they are enforced by non health professionals.

There is a very good presentation given by the medical director of Qantas about medical emergencies. I could email the link to anyone who might be interested

Perhaps you could post the link (or PM me)?

The times I've been called to attend to someone onboard, about half have been what i'd have considered "shouldn't have flown" or "should have been better prepared" and the other half were truly unexpected.

 

[ICUDr]

Hi James

This presentation is freely available via the Intensive Care Network but I'd prefer PM the link, rather than openly put it on this post.

I had my share of those cases that you mentioned and have seen a few syncopal episodes, which usually make panic people.

As long as the PAX is breathing and has a pulse then I don't get overly excited. However I must acknowledge that being far away from help with a FA opening a bag that you are not used to makes things challenging. Like the day I asked a GP to take a BSL (blood sugar level) and it took 3 of us to workout how the bloody thing work because none of us had seen that kind of device before.

Back to the topic of this tread... Diversion of a plane is a decision made by the pilot, the airline and the medical advisory company that the airline uses (like Medilink) We only work as good samaritans on the air and can only express our concerns and point of views regarding the adequate management or the final disposition of a sick passenger


Cheers
Ken

 

[jb747]

I can understand people running away from what they perceive as extreme medical costs, though surely that's the point of travel insurance. But, once on an aircraft they get no choice in the outcome. They could well end up in a more expensive place, with the cost of an ambulance being the first of the charges.

 

[marki]

Patients are require to provide a medical clearance certificate.
QF does have a policy regarding flying when sick or after being discharged from a hospital. - I'm sure VA would have it too -

However this doesn't get requested by the cabin crew unless the person looks indeed unwell (to their untrained medical eye), the PAX comes on a wheelchair escorted by a health professional or the airline is aware that a patient has been discharged from a hospital and said hospital has organised the patient's transfer back home.

I help a pregnant woman in Mel. We were at the gate waiting to board to BNE. She felt unwell while seating down then a kind person lay her down on the floor, moments later she was unresponsive. Among the caos I intervened by rolling her on her side -a heavy baby puts pressure on the mums abdominal part aorta so mums could pass out while lying flat on her back- minutes later she was awake talking to us.

The cabin attendant asked for a doctor's clearance, which she had... 20 minutes later we were on our way to BNE with her sitting next to me.

Just wanted to bring to your attention how flexible/unreliable? this rules could be as they are enforced by non health professionals.

There is a very good presentation given by the medical director of Qantas about medical emergencies. I could email the link to anyone who might be interested

Please send me a link thank you

 

[Colster]

Presentation is available via a Google search. Very interesting content!

 

[clazman]

I can understand people running away from what they perceive as extreme medical costs, though surely that's the point of travel insurance. But, once on an aircraft they get no choice in the outcome. They could well end up in a more expensive place, with the cost of an ambulance being the first of the charges.

Would be curious if a airline would seek compensation if they had to divert and a passenger intentionally deceived the airline about sickness

 

[Quickstatus]

Would be curious if a airline would seek compensation if they had to divert and a passenger intentionally deceived the airline about sickness

May be hard to prove

 

[timster]

Presentation is available via a Google search. Very interesting content!

For the google-challenged, the presentation is indeed in the public domain and is titled:
"In-flight medical emergencies (IFMEs): epidemiology and management"

 

[ICUDr]

I'm going to have a look at that one too

The one I was talking about is titled: "is there a doctor on the plane"