Mel - Sin Business Class redemption seats on Qantas for next 8 months - none

[DJDBA]

been searching fruitlessly an d the only one I found was on via Darwin where they then dump you on Jetstar Asia economy ..

 

[aikman]

You are competing with millions of other points rich Qantas frequent flyers. It's real life Hunger Games.

Switch to Velocity. They have MEL-SIN redemptions available.

 

[love_the_life]

The next 8 months is pretty close - to get the premium seats need to be there when they are first released. You didn't say what status you are, but if Bronze those with higher status will have them available before you.
And also competing with people who are willing to pay cash - if QF can sell tickets they are not likely to have a lot of award availability.

 

[DJDBA]

Would I be better to book cheap economy and upgrade with points?

 

[JohnK]

This is the biggest con trick of frequent flyer programs.

Every single seat on every single flight should be made available for awards at the same classic award rate not ridiculously priced any seat awards.

If the airline cannot make that work then stop conning people with frequent flyer points. I should not have to book 12 months in advance on any route or any cabin. Plans change. Life changes.

Try booking economy award seats from BKK/SIN any time the last few weeks of September first few weeks of October. Hardly anything suitable. A few JQ options to MEL but even that is scattered availability.

By the way I wanted to stay in Thailand 29 days which was 1 day short of the 30 days permitted to stay without visa. Obviously I couldn't stay longer and I didn't want to cut my trip short either. I was searching in late May/early June which is still 4 months away.

In the end I found suitable flights on SQ via Velocity points.

I have over 1 million QFF points and over 200,000 Velocity points. I will run the points balances down as quickly as possible. I don't want to play this game anymore. I'm not going out of my way to collect points. It's a dumb idea.

 

[defurax]

Would I be better to book cheap economy and upgrade with points?

These days flights are so full that even P1 can't be sure of upgrade availability. Also note that on international flights, the cheapest fare buckets (O,N, Q) are not upgradable with points.

 

[Happy Dude]

True words @JohnK. There's no point having points if they can't be used - but plenty collect them blissfully unaware of the triumvirate of "rules" that see them complaining on social media:

1. The rarity of premium cabin seats
2. The pecking order
3. The cost

Even if they are aware, as most here seem to be, the reality of the current situation leads to disappointment and often anger.

Not sure what I'll do with my QFF points now that using them on partner airlines is hella-exxy and risky as a servo pie.

 

[Lynda2475]

been searching fruitlessly an d the only one I found was on via Darwin where they then dump you on Jetstar Asia economy

There are J seats in May almost everyday if you are willing to fly MH from SYD or PER via Kuala Lumpur. Try using the multi-city tool.

 

[CaptainCurtis]

There are J seats in May almost everyday if you are willing to fly MH from SYD or PER via Kuala Lumpur. Try using the multi-city tool.

Agree - I just picked up a SYD-KUL-SIN in J with MH for September. For those who have flexible dates/itineraries, it is still possible to find award redemptions. Would I prefer to fly direct with QF? Absolutely. Am I unhappy with what I've booked? Nup.

 

[Happy Dude]

Would I be better to book cheap economy and upgrade with points?

What @defurax said, plus the upgrade lottery is harder to win especially without status. It's grim that you can't use your QFF points on QFF metal and more likely to be fruitful down the MH, JL etc path...

 

[Pushka]

There are J seats in May almost everyday if you are willing to fly MH from SYD or PER via Kuala Lumpur. Try using the multi-city tool.

I did exactly this from Adelaide.

 

[mviy]

Even with status (I am currently SG) the upgrade lottery is difficult. When I asked in the Flight Availability thread I was told my upcoming flights from SYD to LHR are full in both J and F. I have applied for an upgrade as late as at the gate, but I would be relying on no shows, cancellations and more seats being available than are snatched up by people higher in the upgrade queue.

I wanted to book classic award seats in say about February/March this year, but that was already several months too late for June/July flights if they even release any seats for that time period.

My points balance is already enough for multiple return trips to LHR in J if I can find the seats.

Having said this I’ve only had one upgrade request denied so far. If you have the flexibility to time your flights to be outside school holidays and choose your routes you can increase your chances, especially with status.

 

[clifford]

I'm not paying $2,000 for an EK award from LHR, when I can get a paid flight ex Europe for not much more.

 

[jase05]

This is the biggest con trick of frequent flyer programs.

Every single seat on every single flight should be made available for awards at the same classic award rate not ridiculously priced any seat awards.

If the airline cannot make that work then stop conning people with frequent flyer points. I should not have to book 12 months in advance on any route or any cabin. Plans change. Life changes.

Try booking economy award seats from BKK/SIN any time the last few weeks of September first few weeks of October. Hardly anything suitable. A few JQ options to MEL but even that is scattered availability.

By the way I wanted to stay in Thailand 29 days which was 1 day short of the 30 days permitted to stay without visa. Obviously I couldn't stay longer and I didn't want to cut my trip short either. I was searching in late May/early June which is still 4 months away.

In the end I found suitable flights on SQ via Velocity points.

I have over 1 million QFF points and over 200,000 Velocity points. I will run the points balances down as quickly as possible. I don't want to play this game anymore. I'm not going out of my way to collect points. It's a dumb idea.

Yep, for me it’s just not worth it anymore. I’m running my QF points right down but will keep Velocity earn going through CC spend and living expenses. Unfortunately with work I just can’t book that far out anymore and with PR currently offering KUL-Australia in J for $850 one way or $1400 return and SIN-Australia for $1100 one way or $1800 return I’d rather just cough up the cash to get to Asia

 

[JohnK]

Yep, for me it’s just not worth it anymore. I’m running my QF points right down but will keep Velocity earn going through CC spend and living expenses. Unfortunately with work I just can’t book that far out anymore and with PR currently offering KUL-Australia in J for $850 one way or $1400 return and SIN-Australia for $1100 one way or $1800 return I’d rather just cough up the cash to get to Asia

The only saving grace for Qantas at the moment is airfares to BKK are $1100+ return in economy so any redemptions are good value.

If airfares return to previous levels where you can get $600-$700 return in economy paying $300 in taxes is not a good outcome for hard earned points.

I was hoping the points I was saving could be used on economy round the world awards. Taxes of $1500-$2000 per person are not very appealing. There's something wrong with the model if cost of using points for a free ticket are close to what a revenue airfare costs.

 

[Ade]

In this author's humble opinion, the ability & the fanciness that comes with being able to book tickets using QF points is wearing off. Having over a million points is no longer as exciting as it used to be. The airlines consider points a liability, I'm now getting into the same thought as well. I have over a million points and I consider those points a risk. A risk, because I now feel that I have worked hard to earn those points and I would like to use them as I like. However, with what ever is happening with QF at the moment, I'm not able to and in my mind, I feel like I have worked hard @ something that is not worth in reality.

I'm overcome with this feeling of being helpless & frustrated at the same time. As @JohnK noted, if the points booking is going to take as much as the revenue fare, what are we even doing!! It's hopeless & I feel helpless.

 

[RichardMEL]

Every single seat on every single flight should be made available for awards at the same classic award rate not ridiculously priced any seat awards.

If the airline cannot make that work then stop conning people with frequent flyer points. I should not have to book 12 months in advance on any route or any cabin. Plans change. Life changes.

The airline can't make that work because it would bankrupt ANY airline to offer this kind of strategy - unless they made points/miles incredibly hard to earn, or at an earn rate that would be ridiculously small.

Yes, hugely customer friendly do to this, but very business unfriendly.. and while customer should ALWAYS be first if the business fails then it doesn't matter.

Remember, originally FF programs were born of airlines (I think it was AA?) thinking "hey, we can't sell all the seats on these flights.. how can we fill them?" morphing into a clever marketing plan. Genius! This is essentially still the case as anyone reading this knows - the core principle is to allow points redemptions ar a discounted rate (ie what QF calls "classic flight rewards") for a seat that would otherwise, most likely, go unsold. It's up to Yield Management to crunch the numbers and probabilities and history of demand and supply to figure how how that looks for a particular flight and route. Remember their goal is to maximise revenue not lower it, and pretty much reward seats are not making them much yield (though reducing liability it's true).

Looking at, as a random example, MEL-AKL for a Y seat is 18,000 QFF points classic reward one way (that's what is showing up on the site, though seems cheap to me points wise)+$166. Let's say the "value" of a QFF point is 0.5c which seems to be a reasonable average. That's around $90. Looking at a random date in November, which in theory is a low season, there's a "sale" fare of $387, a Flex of $762 and ironically a Business Sale fare of $702. If we take the $166 from the revnue fares (as those taxes etc are part of those too) then we're looking at $90 vs at least $297. So, at least based on what QF is charging, it's around $200 moire, or around 3x as much. And that's for a "sale" fare.

Now imagine the airline offered ALL of those seats at that 18,000 point level. That;s significantly below the going rate, let alone a mix involving regular Y fares (in the $400's) and flex - and YM will always ensure a mix of fares sold on any flight.

So basically the airline would most certainly not make any money, and lost quite a bit, if all seats were available as rewards (and assuming they were taken) at those levels.

Extend that simple example as a general rule systemwide and you see the problem....

Now sure, not every single seat on every flight would end up selling all seats as rewards specially on some routes, but under your idea many would - specially on high demand routes where the airliner would (can, and does) - and all airlines, not just QF - charge a premium because of the demand.

result: no airline.

So your idea is great for customers, but terrible for a business and then there'd be nothing to spend points on.

Very simple example of course, and I am sure someone could find a case where the numbers are different, but I think the point is still there.

I definitely understand getting out of the game, going BFOD and all the rest. of course. This makes perfect sense, but actually in your case you actually had the best mix because you were not just relying on one (eg: QF) source of awards but had another (VA) and that ended up getting you what you wanted more or less it seems... so the 'game" did end up working for you - at least partially. The handcuffs, specially in these times of reduced capacity and availability and off the charts demand after two+ years in limbo is a perfect storm of why FF can be a poor game to play, unless playing the long game (or one has enough status to leverage things to some extent)

Personally I see points as a side thing. I'm going to purchase flights or whatever with carrier X. If I earn in say QF, or some other program I have "loyalty" (ok status handcuff) with then that works obviously. but is probably not the primary concern.

I have a friend who is the ultimate game player. He ONLY books flights on points on various airlines/alliances. He almost never pays for a revenue seat directly except in dire circumstances, or perhaps cheap LCC options in Asia (and he may read this post and comment ). The way he operates is 12 months in advance and snaps up awards when he can, and he has the luxury to plan where and when he wants to go and multiple redemption options (eg: points in plans from BA to AS, VA to AC etc) to make what he wants, usually in J, happen more or less (of course these covid times and multiple changes have played havoc but still, that has been his strategy more or less, and it works for him pretty much from what I can tell.. and he has little or no status since he doesn't care - if he can get a J seat on TG or NH for example, status doesn't really help much). Now he's in a specific class of people who can both afford to do this in various ways and have long term plans. Not everyone can do this of course, but there are people who pretty much only deal in terms of points for premium travel. And he travels a lot.

 

[JohnK]

The simplest issue @RichardMEL is that Qantas sells points at 1c and most times at 2c-3c but then values those points at 0.5c or 0.7c at best.

They push point earning in your face daily but when it comes to redeem you can't find suitable awards. So you continue to save and learn you have to book 12 months in advance. So you continue to save and find out the taxes are some ridiculous amount and you were best off with best airfare of the day instead of playing this game.

It's actually quite funny what happens when you step away from the game for 2 years. Your head becomes clearer. Less headaches chasing up points with very little monetary value.

 

[RichardMEL]

The simplest issue @RichardMEL is that Qantas sells points at 1c and most times at 2c-3c but then values those points at 0.5c or 0.7c at best.

They push point earning in your face daily but when it comes to redeem you can't find suitable awards. So you continue to save and learn you have to book 12 months in advance. So you continue to save and find out the taxes are some ridiculous amount and you were best off with best airfare of the day instead of playing this game.

It's actually quite funny what happens when you step away from the game for 2 years. Your head becomes clearer. Less headaches chasing up points with very little monetary value.

oh, totally agree with all of this. for sure.

I was just mostly commenting on your notion to make ebery seat available at classic flight reward levels.. it isn't sustainable.

end of the day we each have to do what works, or doesn't, for each of us.

and for many that now absolutely is BFOD. no question.

 

[randompunter]

Spot on JohnK, I am also not a fan of booking 12 months out. Given the current call centre shambles I just can't be stuffed risking booking partner awards if they may not be ticketed in time or incur changes/cancellations needing further call centre fun times. Too stressful and a big timewaster, maybe if I was plat and had a higher chance of getting through to Hobart.

These days my points are often used on domestic routes when the cash price is nuts. Had a great award redemption to AYQ via CNS pre covid where the cash price was $1200 in Y but it was a trivial amount of points and tax. Had a few ISA runs too more recently that worked out at a pretty decent value per point. Definitely not as glamourous as using for long haul J or F though!