Midair collision between Helicopter and CRJ (AA5342) at Washington (DCA)

[mjt57]

The FAA has placed temporary restrictions on helicopter flights in that area.

But not defence. (sorry, defense).

 

[QF WP]

A new camera angle I found on LinkedIn:

FL360aero on LinkedIn: #accident #aviation #airlines #aircraft | 93 comments

Few more clearer visuals show the moment of collision between the American Airlines CRJ700 aircraft (N709PS) and Blackhawk UH-60 Helicopter (PAT25) over… | 93 comments on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

I’m going to refrain from any judgement until after reading the preliminary report

 

[p--and--t]

Trump has announced the copter was not in approved space (too high).

 

[DejaBrew]

Trump has announced the copter was not in approved space (too high).

Yeah… Trump has announced a lot of things…

(Not saying his info is necessarily wrong in this case, but geez, how about leaving it to the relevant authorities to carry out the appropriate investigations and release the formal report rather than continuously shooting your mouth off?)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yeah… Trump has announced a lot of things…

(Not saying his info is necessarily wrong in this case, but geez, how about leaving it to the relevant authorities to carry out the appropriate investigations and release the formal report rather than continuously shooting your mouth off?)

Because… the world has changed. People are used to getting instant news. Trump has said he wants to be more open, and more transparent. We shouldn’t have to wait months or years for information.

If he knows the helicopter was too high, I don’t see an issue disclosing that.

 

[Quickstatus]

rather than continuously shooting your mouth off?)

Yea, but that's his trademark and a stark contrast to #46.
He gets frequent briefings from NTSB, so he is going to make comments. If he stayed silent he would be criticised for not caring.

I actually prefer that he keeps talking, unrefined as it is.

 

[DejaBrew]

Trump is providing, in real time, that information. I think it’s useful.

Paraphrasing the NY Times' fact check (try a 12 foot ladder if having difficulty viewing) on Trump's "helpful" real-time updates...

Even as he acknowledged that he had no evidence, but was instead relying on “common sense,” he suggested that efforts to hire more people with disabilities and diversify the ranks of the F.A.A. were to blame for the accident late Wednesday that killed 67 people.

“This was before I got to office recently, the second term, the F.A.A. is actively recruiting workers who suffer severe intellectual disabilities, psychiatric problems, and other mental and physical conditions under a diversity and inclusion hiring initiative spelled out on the agency’s website.”

“The F.A.A. website states they include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism all qualified for the position of a controller of airplanes pouring into our country, pouring into a little spot, a little dot on the map, little runway.”

“This was in the Obama administration, just prior to my getting there — and we took care of African Americans, Hispanic Americans, we took care of everybody at levels that nobody’s ever seen before. It’s one of the reasons I won — but they actually came out with a directive. Too white.”

This is misleading. Mr. Trump was citing efforts to recruit people with certain disabilities for air traffic operations that began under his own administration, though the language concerning hiring those with disabilities more generally preceded his first term. And there is no evidence that the government’s efforts to recruit more people with disabilities or the Obama or Biden administration’s diversity efforts were to blame for the crash.

So yep, he's being super helpful...

Whilst I appreciate it's a different sort of incident, he would do far better to take a leaf out of one of his predecessor's books in how to act "presidential" in the face of a tragic incident...

Anyway, enough from me on the topic lest I be viewed as getting too political. The focus should be on the tragic incident and what can be learnt to ensure such things never happen again.

 

[justinbrett]

Trump has announced the copter was not in approved space (too high).

He didn't announce it, he's repeating what other officials have already said. If you go up a few pages in this thread we've already discussed it. The helicopter route is not above 200FT, the Blackhawk as at 350FT at time of collision. It's not the smoking gun (as I've already commented on) but it is a factor.

Also, the apolitical truth of the ATC DEI issue is in my post #67.

 

[RooFlyer]

A new camera angle I found on LinkedIn:

FL360aero on LinkedIn: #accident #aviation #airlines #aircraft | 93 comments

Few more clearer visuals show the moment of collision between the American Airlines CRJ700 aircraft (N709PS) and Blackhawk UH-60 Helicopter (PAT25) over… | 93 comments on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

I’m going to refrain from any judgement until after reading the preliminary report

that first clip is really interesting. Appears to have the CRJ coming almost nose on (can see flashing lights on both wings either side) and the helicopter seems to just T-bone it in Level flight.

Now of course the angles are going to be deceptive but can anyone recognise the structure in the foreground in the first clip? Could be a walkway on some piles or maybe a structure right at the end of the runway 33?

Enormous momentum with the helicopter.

 

[DejaBrew]

that first clip is really interesting. Appears to have the CRJ coming almost nose on (can see flashing lights on both wings either side) and the helicopter seems to just T-bone it in Level flight.

Enormous momentum with the helicopter.

Terrifying footage really. Can see that the CRJ had zero chance.

Now of course the angles are going to be deceptive but can anyone recognise the structure in the foreground in the first clip? Could be a walkway on some piles or maybe a structure right at the end of the runway 33?

I think it's this -:

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Paraphrasing the NY Times' fact check (try a 12 foot ladder if having difficulty viewing) on Trump's "helpful" real-time updates...

Even as he acknowledged that he had no evidence, but was instead relying on “common sense,” he suggested that efforts to hire more people with disabilities and diversify the ranks of the F.A.A. were to blame for the accident late Wednesday that killed 67 people.

“This was before I got to office recently, the second term, the F.A.A. is actively recruiting workers who suffer severe intellectual disabilities, psychiatric problems, and other mental and physical conditions under a diversity and inclusion hiring initiative spelled out on the agency’s website.”

“The F.A.A. website states they include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism all qualified for the position of a controller of airplanes pouring into our country, pouring into a little spot, a little dot on the map, little runway.”

“This was in the Obama administration, just prior to my getting there — and we took care of African Americans, Hispanic Americans, we took care of everybody at levels that nobody’s ever seen before. It’s one of the reasons I won — but they actually came out with a directive. Too white.”

This is misleading. Mr. Trump was citing efforts to recruit people with certain disabilities for air traffic operations that began under his own administration, though the language concerning hiring those with disabilities more generally preceded his first term. And there is no evidence that the government’s efforts to recruit more people with disabilities or the Obama or Biden administration’s diversity efforts were to blame for the crash.

So yep, he's being super helpful...

Whilst I appreciate it's a different sort of incident, he would do far better to take a leaf out of one of his predecessor's books in how to act "presidential" in the face of a tragic incident...

Anyway, enough from me on the topic lest I be viewed as getting too political. The focus should be on the tragic incident and what can be learnt to ensure such things never happen again.

You have to cut through the hyperbole.

At a macro level this really shouldn’t be about Trump and his policies. It’s something I’d like all governments to get on board with.

Transparency in things like flight paths, flying over war zones, or other safety issues. The public has a right to know.

In terms of informing the public, it’s potentially helpful to know that this doesn’t look like an AA issue. That might help pax who are worried whether to cancel an upcoming trip on AA (or not).:

Would I ever schedule an arrival into Regan in the dark in the future? Almost certainly not.

 

[DejaBrew]

Would I ever schedule an arrival into Regan in the dark in the future? Almost certainly not.

Who knows? Maybe the lessons learnt from the investigation and the changes implemented ensure Reagan becomes one of the safest airports in which to arrive of an evening.

At a macro level this really shouldn’t be about Trump and his policies. It’s something I’d like all governments to get on board with.

I don't disagree with you on that, however it's nigh on impossible to divorce his actions from his policies and I'm in no way convinced that his actions are altruistic or motivated by anything other than personal/political gain/leverage.

 

[QF WP]

Here's a short of the combined ATC calls with the CRJ and helicopter:

 

[p--and--t]

He didn't announce it, he's repeating what other officials have already said. If you go up a few pages in this thread we've already discussed it. The helicopter route is not above 200FT, the Blackhawk as at 350FT at time of collision. It's not the smoking gun (as I've already commented on) but it is a factor.

Also, the apolitical truth of the ATC DEI issue is in my post #67.

Just because he wasn't the first doesn't change the fact he did announce it. Many people in the US do not follow every announcement by every industry body but will hear about it from him as they follow his media announcements and social media

 

[justinbrett]

Just because he wasn't the first doesn't change the fact he did announce it. Many people in the US do not follow every announcement by every industry body but will hear about it from him as they follow his media announcements and social media

What he said was factual.

He actually has a pretty good grasp on aviation, something I wouldn’t say for recent presidents.

 

[Quickstatus]

POTUS did not getting ahead of the NTSB re helicopter altitude. He would have been briefed on it. Additionally, he was not the first to comment on that. YTubers like blancolirio and captain steeeve were there first. Maybe prune will have timestamp receipt of first comment about Heli altitude as well.

The screenshot below was taken at 2043hrs AEST 1/2/25

People are inferring that he is blaming then Heli pilots which is not true: similarly IMO he is not blaming the accident on DEI policies.

 

[Quickstatus]

Would I ever schedule an arrival into Regan in the dark in the future? Almost certainly not.

It's the system, not just an AA, DoD, FAA, or DCA thing

but will hear about it from him as they follow his media announcements and social media

I think you will find POTUS speaking frankly on a range of matters. For many that is a good thing. More speech is good.

 

[RSD]

Whilst I appreciate it's a different sort of incident, he would do far better to take a leaf out of one of his predecessor's books in how to act "presidential" in the face of a tragic incident...

I think that would have been a far better and nicer approach. I've started warning my American friends that in four year's time they are going to owe the rest of the world a lot of beers!