Missing leg LAX - HNL on OWA booking

[Youfah Mizzum]

Quick background:
I finally have enough QFF points to book my family of 4 on a OneWorld award RTW trip next July 2017 all in Y (oh well, maybe next time in J or F!). All flights are booked aside from LAX to HNL. The award availability on this has never been possible from my prior year searching trial bookings and even calling the QFF call centre.
Each time I ring, the consultant just says "call up every other day and check again".

Anyone got a deeper understanding of this segment? I need to book it on a OWA partner airline, so I assume AA is pretty much the only airline which could do it.

I guess I could call every other day as recommended, but come say Feb or March next year, I'd like to have it finalised even if I just buy that segment outright. Current prices for LAX to HNL hover around AU$520 to AU$530 each but I'm wondering if there is a better way (read, cheaper) to do it. I thought of signing up to the AA award program, or United award program then buying points when they do those discount offers but doing some research has shown that miles required to Hawaii are the same (even more!) as if I was coming back to SYD! Was the?
As an example, United MileagePlus shows LAX to HNL is 45,000 miles. Same day LAX to SYD is 40,000 miles. There's a frowning head scratch right there!

So does the AFF community suggest I keep trying the QFF call centre in a possible fruitless attempt to get that award flight, or just buy it outright? And does $530 seem about right (per pax)? I would like to get it as cheap as possible so is it worth waiting until some random offer comes along? As mentioned above, I want it all booked well before July (say March. April at latest just for my own peace of mind).

I'm signed up to Skyscanner alerts, and AA emails too. And OzBargain travel alerts.

As an FYI, the overall trip is
SYD - HKG
HKG - LHR
LHR - JFK
JFK - LAX
LAX - HNL
HNL - SYD

(mods - if this thread is better in the 140000/280000/560000 forum please move).

cheers
Danster

 

[Dr Ralph]

I had a similar problem about 6 months ago. No availability for Hawaii. In the end I had to reroute home via Hong Kong.

 

[Daver6]

You could use the BA tool for checking availability on AA rather than calling QF daily.

Also, perhaps use Google flights to monitor the cost this sector and if it drops, consider just paying cash?

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I recently made a booking for self and +1 LAS/xPHX/HNL on AA for early November in whY which books into the 'T' class fare bucket (not sure if that's the same for the RTW fare) .

What dates in July are you looking at?

I'd say the issue is that it's hard to find 4 award seats at once so it may be better if they split the booking so you have two family members in each pnr then you're more likely to find 2 award seats at a time or two of you may have to take diffferent flights. Just did a quick search using Expert Flyer.com which is showing 2 seats on 04 July but I'd double check the correct booking class first then do a search with that.

Results from ExpertFlyer.com

Awards & Upgrades Search
Departing LAX on 04/07/17 0:00 for HNL
Flying AA   on booking class T        




                                                                     Frequency                                                    
Flight        Stops  Depart             Arrive             Aircraft  Reliability     Class Description                      Code  Seats
0 Connections
AA 31         0      LAX                HNL                32B       Daily           Coach - MileSAAver Award               T     0
                     04/07/17 8:25      04/07/17 11:16               89% / 17m       


0 Connections
AA 283        0      LAX                HNL                32B       Daily           Coach - MileSAAver Award               T     0
                     04/07/17 9:45      04/07/17 12:35               84% / 24m       


1 Connection
AA 1929       0      LAX                PHX                321       Daily           Coach - MileSAAver Award               T     7
                     04/07/17 6:00      04/07/17 7:26                NA / NA         
AA 692        0      PHX                HNL                752       Daily           Coach - MileSAAver Award               T     2
                     04/07/17 10:35     04/07/17 14:12               89% / 22m       


1 Connection
AA 1929       0      LAX                PHX                321       Daily           Coach - MileSAAver Award               T     7
                     04/07/17 6:00      04/07/17 7:26                NA / NA         
AA 690        0      PHX                HNL                752       Daily           Coach - MileSAAver Award               T     1
                     04/07/17 10:45     04/07/17 14:18               83% / 13m       


1 Connection
AA 622        0      LAX                PHX                319       Daily           Coach - MileSAAver Award               T     7
                     04/07/17 7:10      04/07/17 8:49                NA / NA         
AA 692        0      PHX                HNL                752       Daily           Coach - MileSAAver Award               T     2
                     04/07/17 10:35     04/07/17 14:12               89% / 22m       


1 Connection
AA 622        0      LAX                PHX                319       Daily           Coach - MileSAAver Award               T     7
                     04/07/17 7:10      04/07/17 8:49                NA / NA         
AA 690        0      PHX                HNL                752       Daily           Coach - MileSAAver Award               T     1
                     04/07/17 10:45     04/07/17 14:18               83% / 13m       


1 Connection
AA 59         0      LAX                KOA                32B       Daily           Coach - MileSAAver Award               T     1
                     04/07/17 10:50     04/07/17 13:38               66% / 31m       
AA (HA) 7885  0      KOA                HNL                717       Daily           
                     04/07/17 15:07     04/07/17 15:54               94% / 7m

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Not sure if you have any Velocity points with VA you could use for a partner award on DL which books into N class. If you had a credit card and warehouse the points some cards allow you to transfer those points to the program of your choice eg the Amex Plat charge card will allow you to transfer to approximately 10 frequent flyer programs so you can warehouse the points with Amex then just transfer across to the appropriate ff program as needed.

The only this with the Expert Flyer results for Delta is that they don't tell you exactly how many seats are available so you'd either have to Skype Delta and ask if there are any flights LAX/HNL within your time frame that have 4 award seats available in 'N' class or call Virgin and ask them the same question.

Results from ExpertFlyer.com

Awards & Upgrades Search
Departing LAX on 26/07/17 for HNL
Flying DL   on booking class N        




                                                                     Frequency                                                    
Flight        Stops  Depart             Arrive             Aircraft  Reliability     Class Description                      Code  Seats
0 Connections
DL 611        0      LAX                HNL                76Q       Unavailable     Economy - Saver Level/Partner Award    N     Y
                     26/07/17           26/07/17                     77% / 30m

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

Thanks ozbeachbabe.
Thing is, I can see award seats availability when going direct onto the AA site, but clearly AA don't release them to QF or OWA partner airlines.

I've been down this path. Even when I am looking at available seats on the screen using AA miles/points during the phone call, QF staff just say "AA haven't released us any seats. Call back another day". It all seems quite pot luck.
More than 1 consultant has said to just jump on the qantas site & check award seat availability using the multi-city option because they don't get any extra availability using their internal software. Only difference is the frontend software used to display the results.

Cheers

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Thanks ozbeachbabe.
Thing is, I can see award seats availability when going direct onto the AA site, but clearly AA don't release them to QF or OWA partner airlines.

I've been down this path. Even when I am looking at available seats on the screen using AA miles/points during the phone call, QF staff just say "AA haven't released us any seats. Call back another day". It all seems quite pot luck.
More than 1 consultant has said to just jump on the qantas site & check award seat availability using the multi-city option because they don't get any extra availability using their internal software. Only difference is the frontend software used to display the results.

Cheers

What class do the QF book the AA flights into? Is it 'T' class? What booking class are you looking at on the AA website?

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

Is it 'T' class? What booking class are you looking at on the AA website?

Class is only defined as Economy.
I'm not a member of Velocity. Even if I were, I have paid 140,000 points for the OWA round the world award flights, so I should get the LAX to HNL segment within that - not willing to spend more points for a segment that's supposed to be included.
I'd rather pay LAX to HNL & get points for the paid flights.


Cheers & thx

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Thanks ozbeachbabe.
Thing is, I can see award seats availability when going direct onto the AA site, but clearly AA don't release them to QF or OWA partner airlines.

I've been down this path. Even when I am looking at available seats on the screen using AA miles/points during the phone call, QF staff just say "AA haven't released us any seats. Call back another day". It all seems quite pot luck.

More than 1 consultant has said to just jump on the qantas site & check award seat availability using the multi-city option because they don't get any extra availability using their internal software. Only difference is the frontend software used to display the results.

Cheers

I would call QF back and ask them what the booking code they booked AA flights in as part of the OW 140K award in case it's different from 'T' class that's used for partner awards such as the one I did LAS/xPHX/HNL.

I know AA book their Miles SAAver economy awards into 'T' class so quite possibly when the AA site is showing you award availability it may be looking at 'T' class seats however are you specifying that you are looking for 4 seats? If not, there may only be only one or two seats left as the search would only look for one seat unless you selected the actual number of seats you were looking for hence QF telling you there's no availability for 4 seats.

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

I would call QF back and ask them what the booking code they booked AA flights in as part of the OW 140K award in case it's different from 'T' class that's used for partner awards

I hadn't really looked hard, but for the date I am after (coincidentally the same as your VA expertflyer results - 26 July 2017) the AA website specifically states that "Economy MileSAAver Not Available". They only have Economy AAnytime or Business/First MileSAAver.
That is probably why QF staff can't find it.
And coz it's a 140k OWA, it's likely not allowing them to check other class seats.

I don't have an account with expertflyer. Can I burden you oz with a quickie little search for T Class on 26th July?

 

[Mattg]

As your trip's not for almost a year, I wouldn't be too worried just yet. They may release Y award seats sometime in the next few months.

I also wouldn't go so far as purchasing tickets just yet. Among other reasons, fares are not at their lowest rates 10-11 months ahead of travel.

Make sure you check other routes that AA fly to Hawaii, not just LAX-HNL. They also fly PHX-HNL, LAX-KOA, PHX-KOA & DFW-HNL.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I hadn't really looked hard, but for the date I am after (coincidentally the same as your VA expertflyer results - 26 July 2017) the AA website specifically states that "Economy MileSAAver Not Available". They only have Economy AAnytime or Business/First MileSAAver.
That is probably why QF staff can't find it.
And coz it's a 140k OWA, it's likely not allowing them to check other class seats.

I don't have an account with expertflyer. Can I burden you oz with a quickie little search for T Class on 26th July?

I realise it's not until July next year however it's the middle of the US summer school holidays of June, July & August so there will be award seats will be at a premium for those months.

I've looked at DFW/OGG, DFW/HNL, PHX/OGG, PHX/HNL etc and the best I can find is LAX/LIH (Kauai - the Garden Isle) for the date you want of Wed 26 July. It may be worth weighing up whether it's better to grab 4 of those seats bearing in mind that you'd still need to pay for a the short sector fare LIH/HNL which at present is USD86.00 per person but you'd have to collect your bags in LIH ex the AA flight then checkin again with HA plus pay the baggage fees on HA324 2253/2326 so you wouldn't be at your HNL hotel under after midnight which could be problematic if your kids are young.

The longer you leave booking that sector (hoping for seats on a direct flight LAX/HNL to open up) the more flexible you need to be which is difficult if you must travel on that date because you have to sequence it in between all the other flights you have already booked. In addition to that you're looking for 4 award seats which is not easy to come by on a single flight.

Seats on this AA flight LAX/LIH are showing able to be booked for 4 people on a Classic award so if QF res are telling you to check online then it must be 'T' class they book the RTW award into.

Results from ExpertFlyer.com

Awards & Upgrades Search
Departing LAX on 26/07/17 0:00 for LIH
Flying AA   on booking class T        




                                                                     Frequency                                                    
Flight        Stops  Depart             Arrive             Aircraft  Reliability     Class Description                      Code  Seats
0 Connections
AA 265        0      LAX                LIH                32B       Daily           Coach - MileSAAver Award               T     0
                     26/07/17 9:45      26/07/17 12:45               93% / 31m       



0 Connections
AA 285        0      LAX                LIH                32B       Daily           Coach - MileSAAver Award               T     6
                     26/07/17 17:30     26/07/17 20:24               82% / 31m       


1 Connection
AA 283        0      LAX                HNL                32B       Daily           Coach - MileSAAver Award               T     0
                     26/07/17 9:45      26/07/17 12:35               84% / 24m       
AA (HA) 7867  0      HNL                LIH                717       Daily           
                     26/07/17 13:26     26/07/17 14:08               84% / 11m

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

... the best I can find is LAX/LIH (Kauai - the Garden Isle) for the date you want of Wed 26 July.

THANKS SO MUCH!! It never even occurred to me to to land in another airport - in fact I thought HNL was the only big airport which takes the larger aircraft flying between mainland USA and Hawaii.
I am currently in the phone queue to QF to see if they can source the flights to LIH. If they can - it is thanks to you!

This just might be the best bet for now. My kids are older teenagers/early twenties so no probs flying late into HNL but I reckon we may even spend a few days on Kauai before heading into Oahu to fly home to SYD.

Cheers

Danster

 

[ozbeachbabe]

THANKS SO MUCH!! It never even occurred to me to to land in another airport - in fact I thought HNL was the only big airport which takes the larger aircraft flying between mainland USA and Hawaii.
I am currently in the phone queue to QF to see if they can source the flights to LIH. If they can - it is thanks to you!

This just might be the best bet for now. My kids are older teenagers/early twenties so no probs flying late into HNL but I reckon we may even spend a few days on Kauai before heading into Oahu to fly home to SYD.

Cheers

Danster

Happy to help.

Haven't been to Kauai before but have flown into/out of OGG (Kahului on Maui) from DFW a few times on the 763. Not sure what your ff tier status is but if you're ff silver or above you can get free seat selection on QF flights plus AA & CX (I think) but BA will charge you so now you've got flights booked might be wise to allocate seats where you can.

If you're on any BA flights operated by the 388, they have some economy seats on the upper deck in a 2x4x2 config so it may be worth considering paying the seat fee for that.

 

[Daver6]

THANKS SO MUCH!! It never even occurred to me to to land in another airport - in fact I thought HNL was the only big airport which takes the larger aircraft flying between mainland USA and Hawaii.
I am currently in the phone queue to QF to see if they can source the flights to LIH. If they can - it is thanks to you!

This just might be the best bet for now. My kids are older teenagers/early twenties so no probs flying late into HNL but I reckon we may even spend a few days on Kauai before heading into Oahu to fly home to SYD.

Cheers

Danster

Kauai is a beautiful spot. Well worth spending a few days if the opportunity presents itself. A walk along the Na Pali coast comes highly recommended.

 

[Youfah Mizzum]

Well, The QF consultant could get 1 seat LAX-LIH but not 4. Exactly as you thought! I actually have my family of 4 on 1 booking (1 pax) and the other 3 on a different booking, so that would work well.

I'll keep trying various airports from mainland USA to LIH, HNL, OGG and see what turns up.
As mattg mentioned, it's still well in advance so I may get lucky. And I may just grab that 1 seat from LAX to LIH & then I'd only need buy 3 tix. Better get onto it quick. Snooze, you lose.

A walk along the Na Pali coast comes highly recommended

Noted - still early days but looking for recommendations like this so def will look into it.

I think I'll take it from here - it has been useful to know I can fly into LIH and OGG too. Thanks all for the input.
Cheers

Danster

 

[drron]

What you are seeing on the AA site is anytime awards.These are much more points to redeem and will not show up on partners.
What you are looking for are milesAAver awards-these will be accessible by QFF ordinarily.
However for the whole of July there is only 1 Y milesAAver award on the 4th July.There is 1 F milesAAver award on 12,14,19,21 and 26/7.An F milesAAver award is 40000 miles.A Y anytime award is occasionally 40000 miles,usually 50000 miles and occasionally(weekends) 90000 miles so it would make no sense using Advantage.
So you are not going to get QFF awards in July-remember it is American summer holidays and most still prefer to holiday in the USA.
So buy the cheapest flight you can-the days of those milesAAvers might be the best days but search other airlines as well.