Monumental Stuff up by Qantas

[RB]

I am wondering which form of transport the OP used to get into Cuba & how not having a "real" way of leaving did not trigger some questions

 

[Lynda2475]

Upon clearing immigration in Havana, I was asked how long I intended to stay but wasn't asked to show proof I had a ticket to leave (I've only ever been asked to show proof of onward travel in the USA and UK - but always have this handy) . That said I flew in on their national carrier so I'm sure they could see my return ticket.

However, its a requirement for tourists to have valid travel insurance policy which includes medical evacuation from Cuba as a condition of entry. They didnt ask to see mine, but a fellow passenger on my tour was held temporarily up when he couldn't show his policy (it was in his wife's handbag and they has got on separate queues) - all sorted in the end.

 

[Jack_OC]

That’s for sharing your experience.

Like you, I assume things go right “all the time”. The systems designed for that, right?.

I'm certainly not disputing that QF screwed up, but just to be clear, are you saying that you would assume that a phone booking was successful, even if you never received any confirmation, and never got charged for it?

And would you still stick to that assumption if you got an email from the airline explicitly stating that they had not yet been able to complete the booking, and needed more information to do so?

That help was sought thru the call centre because the OP asked because they needed support to book, and they got BAD help. The NOTHING TO SEE HERE defence is currently being tested in the Royal Commission. It’s not good enough. It’s just dumb to think. Oh I rang to book an award ticket to not use it. QF ought have made a better effort to sort this out, but will they. They are the alleged experts but it seems this opinion is overrated and they’re as novice and a rookie like the OP.

I'm not sure what the Royal Commission reference is about. Remember that Qantas never took any form of payment for this booking, so this is really not the same as banks charging for services that were never delivered, if that's what you were getting at.

Finally, I think it should be recognised that there is a dispute about how much QF did to try to sort this out. According to the OP, QF claimed "they sent several emails and made phone calls over the following couple of months requesting the information" but got no reply.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Restrictions on booking via US. Canada or parts of Latin America could be possibilities, but airlines may not let traveller board unless proof of onward travel.

OK, I see for USA you can't fly (and it's so cheap too! AA has fares for USD140). Is Canadia the same? The fare to Toronto is AUD800 for a flight tomorrow for example.

 

[RichardMEL]

Richard, you seem to be assuming that a confirmation email was sent even though ticketing had not yet occurred. That was my assumption at first too, but as I mentioned in a couple of previous posts, I then remembered that this is not what QF normally does (in my experience). Also, on re-reading the original post, there is not actually any mention of QF sending a confirmation email.

Is it your experience that QF issues confirmation emails when ticketing has not yet occurred?

You're correct. I am thinking of another airline. The only usual confirmation I receive is the E-Ticket receipt but the subject line is usually "Confirmation and E-Ticket Itineary for...."

 

[travelislife]

What a cough fight and it is 100% Qantas fault. Similar to Qatar, Iberia tickets need to be ticketed immediately. My guess is Qantas sat on it and it auto cancelled.

That is bullshit about the DOB and middle name. Ticket can still be ticketed.

 

[travelislife]

OK, so in short.

1. You had no e-ticket
2. Points were not deducted from your account
3. (Presumably, but not stated) No "fuel fines" were deducted from your credit card
4. You still thought your trip was 100% OK ...
5. You had a PNR against which you could select your seat?
6. Presumably you made no attempt to maintain your booking by applying your Passport details etc ... all the standard FF stuff we do prior to travelling ...
7. You still thought your trip was 100% OK ...
8. You flew in to a (effectively) 3rd world country with no means of contacting anyone at home (no phone) should something go wrong; no mitigation: health, weather, side-trips, aircraft ops (particularly since it was IB!!), language barrier etc etc.

I have got these facts correct regarding the ticketing and process?

The processes - and the mitigation behind these (especially for award bookings) - are standard for most people on an International Trip, especially one on partner airlines. It's called self-responsibility.

Qantas's responsibility? Well, in truth there was no contract with Qantas. I'm by no means a "Qantas apologist" (quite the opposite at times) however most of your documented issues (lack of cash, lack of effective comms due to language, lack of means of effecting accommodation, struggling with luggage up stairs etc etc) have nothing to do with Qantas.

Without doubt you've had a very traumatic experience - and certainly one I would not wish to endure - which is why the basics should always be done prior to travel.

Regards,

BD

You are looking at it through ‘over educated’ eyes. To the lay person. They make a booking. They receive an email confirming said booking. They should rightfully believe they are good to go. The difference between a PNR and eticket isn’t commonly known. The majority of the population would take that PNR email as confirmation of the booking.

Even with revenue bookings Qantas can sometimes take weeks to actually charge the card, especially if some manually over the phone.

Yes the OP could have done some checks, but with minimum 30min hold times as a bronze these days it can sometimes be nearly impossible to speak to someone.

This is a massive f*ck up by Qantas. Something, somewhere in the system has to change. Even to the point that the OP didn’t receive a ticketing deadline email or similar.

 

[ALH]

.....Is it your experience that QF issues confirmation emails when ticketing has not yet occurred?

It has been our experience that QF did send us a confirmation email (booked online using a voucher from a refunded flight) but before I was savvy. I did not notice the absence of an eticket. I neglected to print it out, and did not have the email on my phone. Between leaving home and arriving at the airport, the booking disappeared from Manage My Bookings.

It took 2 hours to convince the QF Customer Service staff at BNE airport that we really had purchased tickets, and we were eventually allowed to board, but it was a real run for our (International) flight. Luckily we were HLO. To this day it has not been explained

 

[Jack_OC]

It has been our experience that QF did send us a confirmation email (booked online using a voucher from a refunded flight) but before I was savvy. I did not notice the absence of an eticket. I neglected to print it out, and did not have the email on my phone. Between leaving home and arriving at the airport, the booking disappeared from Manage My Bookings.

It took 2 hours to convince the QF Customer Service staff at BNE airport that we really had purchased tickets, and we were eventually allowed to board, but it was a real run for our (International) flight. Luckily we were HLO. To this day it has not been explained

Thanks for this data point. Can you clarify when that was? Also, I'm struggling to folllow it a bit - you said you didn't notice the absence of an eticket, but you ultimately convinced the staff that you really had purchased tickets, and were allowed to board. So that implies that an eticket had indeed been issued in this case?

All I can say is that I have been using a dedicated email address for my travel bookings for the past few years, and I never delete any emails sent to that account. I have a lot of emails from QF about bookings over that time - including everything from straightforward domestic flights paid with cash, to flights booked with vouchers, to award bookings both with QF and partners (including "difficult" partners like QR - when there was a problem with delayed ticketing). I don't seem to have ever received a booking confirmation from QF without an eticket. When I have "booked" but a ticket has not been issued right away (which has happened more than once), I have received no email from QF until the ticket was eventually issued.

 

[OATEK]

Thanks for this data point. Can you clarify when that was? Also, I'm struggling to folllow it a bit - you said you didn't notice the absence of an eticket, but you ultimately convinced the staff that you really had purchased tickets, and were allowed to board. So that implies that an eticket had indeed been issued in this case?

All I can say is that I have been using a dedicated email address for my travel bookings for the past few years, and I never delete any emails sent to that account. I have a lot of emails from QF about bookings over that time - including everything from straightforward domestic flights paid with cash, to flights booked with vouchers, to award bookings both with QF and partners (including "difficult" partners like QR - when there was a problem with delayed ticketing). I don't seem to have ever received a booking confirmation from QF without an eticket. When I have "booked" but a ticket has not been issued right away (which has happened more than once), I have received no email from QF until the ticket was eventually issued.

I believe the OP mentioned this was before they were fully trained FFers, and like many probably had their email set to download to their PC/Mac and not leave a copy on the server. These days with gmail, hotmail etc a copy can easily stay on the server as a quick reference from your phone when at the counter. But in the olden days, with very limited storage with ISPs we often couldn't afford to (messages about full mailboxes used to be very common).

 

[Toad]

I find it difficult to understand how someone can make a booking but then don't check that they receive a ticket or "don't have the time to check ticketing". Then turn up and to there surprise have no seat. Would you apply the same principle to say booking an Opera, Theatre show, football, V8s tickets etc then turn up and alas get asked for your ticket. (Yes I do know that there are events that you are told to pick the ticket up O/A with your confirmation email that proves you made the booking in the first place)

 

[OATEK]

I find it difficult to understand how someone can make a booking but then don't check that they receive a ticket or "don't have the time to check ticketing". Then turn up and to there surprise have no seat. Would you apply the same principle to say booking an Opera, Theatre show, football, V8s tickets etc then turn up and get asked your is your ticket. (Yes I do know that there are events that you are told to pick the ticket up O/A with your confirmation email that proves you made the booking in the first place)

...or just show the Credit Card you used to pay - this has been the case for me in many countries, not just Oz. And when I arrive at the CX counter on Monday they will only ask for my passport for ID, not the eTicket. So for many less well trained in FFing, they could easily be caught out. I remember some years ago where I bought a ticket for my daughter to fly LHR-SYD, and CX wasn't interested in the eTicket, they wanted the Credit Card at check-in when it was sitting in my pocket at the destination. We all learn from our and others' mistakes.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But if you are claiming to be a ‘novice’, how many ‘novices’ don’t check, and double check, things like passport, tickets and hotels before their once a year trip? i’d say many, if not all, would?

 

[Jack_OC]

I believe the OP mentioned this was before they were fully trained FFers, and like many probably had their email set to download to their PC/Mac and not leave a copy on the server. These days with gmail, hotmail etc a copy can easily stay on the server as a quick reference from your phone when at the counter. But in the olden days, with very limited storage with ISPs we often couldn't afford to (messages about full mailboxes used to be very common).

Yeah don't worry I remember the days before having every email available on my phone at all times. In fact, I remember the days before email full stop, when we needed paper tickets!

Anyway, if you're correct that ALH was referring to an incident numerous years ago, then it is possible that QF did things differently back then compared to now. However, if ALH was unable to find the email after the fact, I would question whether he/she is sure that there was no eticket sent with the confirmation up front? Bearing in mind they said they did not notice the absence of an eticket at the time (which implies there could have been one). Either way, it sounds like ALH's flights were indeed ticketed, which means it's a very different situation to that described by the OP of this thread.

...or just show the Credit Card you used to pay - this has been the case for me in many countries, not just Oz. And when I arrive at the CX counter on Monday they will only ask for my passport for ID, not the eTicket. So for many less well trained in FFing, they could easily be caught out. I remember some years ago where I bought a ticket for my daughter to fly LHR-SYD, and CX wasn't interested in the eTicket, they wanted the Credit Card at check-in when it was sitting in my pocket at the destination. We all learn from our and others' mistakes.

There's a big difference between not expecting to have to physically show the eticket at check in, and not expecting to receive any confirmation that your flight was actually booked in the first place. I agree with PJF that even an infrequent/inexperienced traveller would surely expect to receive some sort of confirmation that their flights were booked, and booked correctly at that (i.e. right dates/destinations etc). It seems crazy to me to rely solely on the fact that someone on the phone said it had been done - not just when it comes to travel arrangements - I would have the same view about anything arranged verbally - whether in person or over the phone.

 

[drron]

But if you are claiming to be a ‘novice’, how many ‘novices’ don’t check, and double check, things like passport, tickets and hotels before their once a year trip? i’d say many, if not all, would?

But the OP had an email saying they had been booked on the flights tnen some months later an email detailing a change f flight times.
How many novices would then assume everything was fine.I suggest a great majority would.
Plus the excuse that QF gave about not having a middle name is pure BS.Mrsdrron has never put in a middle name and gets ticketed without ever it being asked for.She has no middle name.

 

[Jack_OC]

But the OP had an email saying they had been booked on the flights tnen some months later an email detailing a change f flight times.
How many novices would then assume everything was fine.I suggest a great majority would.
Plus the excuse that QF gave about not having a middle name is pure BS.Mrsdrron has never put in a middle name and gets ticketed without ever it being asked for.She has no middle name.

But did the OP have an email saying they had been booked on the flights? I've asked this question numerous times, as it's a key point, but the OP hasn't answered (to be fair I'm not sure if she's been on here at all since then).

However:
1. In the sequence of events as described by the OP at the start of this thread, there is no mention of receiving a confirmation email after booking.
2. In my (pretty extensive) experience, QF does not issue booking confirmation emails until flights are ticketed, and these flights were never ticketed. That leads me to suspect that no confirmation email was sent, which is consistent with the sequence of events as described by the OP.
3. Whether or not any confirmation email was sent up front, the OP received an email a week later telling her that the flights had not been booked. So even if she naively assumed all was well before then, at that point she knew for a fact that there was a problem.

The subsequent schedule change email would certainly have caused confusion, but bear in mind that was not sent until more than 3 months later. She doesn't seem to have made any effort before then to check if the problem with her booking (which she definitely knew about) had been resolved.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But the OP had an email saying they had been booked on the flights tnen some months later an email detailing a change f flight times.
How many novices would then assume everything was fine.I suggest a great majority would.
Plus the excuse that QF gave about not having a middle name is pure BS.Mrsdrron has never put in a middle name and gets ticketed without ever it being asked for.She has no middle name.

we still don’t know about the email and flight confirmation, but putting that aside, when i see people in the office going away somewhere, novices, even those quite familiar with travel, they ALL check their flights. Whether for flight times, or to check in, or to check seats. Maybe it’s just me, but i can’t grasp not checking a ticket at any time between purchase and turning up at the airport, especially to a country that would likely require evidence of onward travel.

 

[drron]

- 18th Sept 2017 :l made a call to Qantas FF Customer Support to make an award booking using QFF points. I already had the itinerary and availability found for me by QFF Flyer Solutions. The call lasted 1hr 15mins and resulted in an award booking in J from HAV - MAD - LIS flying Iberia.

- 24th Sept 2017: l receive an email asking me to provide more information via a link to complete my booking.
I go to the link and provide the required info.

- 4th Jan 2018: l receive an email from Qantas quoting my booking number telling me that there is a 25min time change to the above-mentioned award flight.

Before AFF I would have assumed the email of 24/9 was confirmation of the booking once I had provided the info on line.
Before AFF I had no knowledge of PNRs etc so I would have assumed everything was OK.
Though sometime in the month or 2 before the flight I probably would have tried to select seats though not every time.

 

[travelislife]

Before AFF I would have assumed the email of 24/9 was confirmation of the booking once I had provided the info on line.
Before AFF I had no knowledge of PNRs etc so I would have assumed everything was OK.
Though sometime in the month or 2 before the flight I probably would have tried to select seats though not every time.

You can still select seats once you have a PNR, even if not ticketed. So that doesn't help as a 'check' and can make it even more confusing for the layman.

 

[Jack_OC]

Before AFF I would have assumed the email of 24/9 was confirmation of the booking once I had provided the info on line.

Per the OP, the email of 24/9 made it clear that the booking had not been completed. How could anyone possibly interpret that as confirmation of the booking? It was exactly the opposite!