More 787 delays?

[codash1099]

What is it with aircraft wiring?

Boeing 787 looks set for another serious delay

 

[oz_mark]

Oh dear, more delays could prove very costly for Boeing. (and means we'll be flying on clapped out 767's even longer)

 

[oz_mark]

Some redesign work?

From Reuters:
Boeing does redesign work on Dreamliner -FT | Markets | Markets News | Reuters

NEW YORK, March 20 (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) said it would have to redesign parts of its 787 Dreamliner, raising the prospect of a new delay to the new aircraft, the Financial Times reported on Thursday.

According to the FT, Boeing was responding to a warning from the chairman of International Lease Finance Corp, the 787's biggest customer, saying the state of the Dreamliner program was "not pretty".

Boeing told the FT it is doing some redesign work but said the ILFC was not painting an accurate picture of the overall program.

Boeing was not immediately available for additional comment. (Reporting by Yinka Adegoke; Editing by David Holmes)

I think this is the FT article referred to:
FT.com / Home UK / UK - Boeing admits to redesign work on 787 parts

 

[Evan]

Atleast QF have some old clapped our 767's available to them, seems other airlines could be worse off...

I would guess this is not going to be a good news story when they make there next announcement in a week or 2, seems with wireing issues, wing box problems (thats a big one, would mean all test airframes need to be rebuilt) its looking like a while yet before they fly the thing, let alone start building in numbers.

And it will cost boeing $$ in compensation i would think for sure. Maybe they better ramp up there 777 line in a hurry to keep some customers happy with loan A/C.

E

 

[codash1099]

Some redesign work?

From Reuters:
Boeing does redesign work on Dreamliner -FT | Markets | Markets News | Reuters




I think this is the FT article referred to:
FT.com / Home UK / UK - Boeing admits to redesign work on 787 parts

More detailed information here:

FlightBlogger Exclusive: Center Wing Box Flaw Forces Interim Fix and Redesign (Flightblogger)

 

[NM]

I hope the design changes are not too dramatic as Boeing now has 28 Dreamliners in various stages of production, including the second flight test airframe in final assembly.

I do note the use of the term "design enhancements" in the Boeing press release. It seems that enhancements are pervasive in the airline industry. I guess they assumed the airlines will understand what the term really means :-| .

 

[oz_mark]

Boeing likely to announce more 787 delays

Boeing likely to announce more 787 delays | theage.com.au

Boeing said it would update investors on the progress of its 787 Dreamliner on Wednesday, likely heralding a widely anticipated further six- to nine-month delay for the troubled program.

Such a setback would be the third major change to the original schedule and put first delivery of the lightweight, fuel-efficient aircraft as much as 18 months behind the original target.

 

[maninblack]

Really, it is bad planning by Qantas. They have been relying on the delivery of 2 totally new aircraft types, delays were inevitable and unfortunately the story keeps getting worse. If when the first A380 delays were announced they had refitted the international configured 763's with a 2-2-1 skybed in Biz and new seating in Y with AVOD etc they would have at least 12 aircraft (they had a few more I think that have gone to a domestic config) that could cover any short to medium haul routes for at least 5 years and kept a consistent high service standard. Afterall more cashstrapped airlines like AC and AA have done so, so has NZ on their 744's and others as well.

There is nothing wrong per se with the 763's if the interiors were fixed up. They are still a mighty aircraft. At least for QF the A380's will start to arrive soon, it is JQ who will really be cursing.

 

[Evan]

And QF did grab a few more cheaper A330-200's from Airbus with the A380 delay.
You make a valid point about doing something with the 767's but there fuel burn i am told is around 30% more than the A330's per seat so the last thing you also want is them in your fleet any longer than you planned.

Difficult situation for all. I am JQ is really not happy, it almost killed there expansion plans.

QF right now are probably planning on there replacement for the 744's, you need to plan this far out, i am sure they are looking at A350, A380, B787-10, maybe even something else or a combination of all but you need to be planning 10 years in advance for these things.

E

 

[ANstar]

that could cover any short to medium haul routes for at least 5 years and kept a consistent high service standard.

Actually, they did learn after the A380 debarcle and ordered 8 A330's to help protect against any 787 delays.... Why else would they have ordered so many when 787's were "due" to be arriving also....

Whilst I understand that they received discounts form Airbus for the 330's, They could have received those on 1 or 2 frames... so I think the planning was better second time round.

 

[maninblack]

And QF did grab a few more cheaper A330-200's from Airbus with the A380 delay.
You make a valid point about doing something with the 767's but there fuel burn i am told is around 30% more than the A330's per seat so the last thing you also want is them in your fleet any longer than you planned.
E

This 30% number has been largely discredited. There is no absolute proof because you are not comparing apples with apples but various studies have shown the difference to be between 0% and 10%, some have even shown the 763 and moreso the 764 to be more fuel efficient than the A330-200 :!: The A330-200 also has a slower optimum cruise speed. Anyway, these numbers wouldn't send QF to the wall

 

[Evan]

This 30% number has been largely discredited. There is no absolute proof because you are not comparing apples with apples but various studies have shown the difference to be between 0% and 10%, some have even shown the 763 and moreso the 764 to be more fuel efficient than the A330-200 :!: The A330-200 also has a slower optimum cruise speed. Anyway, these numbers wouldn't send QF to the wall

Yes i know, and the figures are per seat so you never know.
A332 i would imagine would not be that good, i am sure it burns very close to the same fuel as an A333 yet seats less people ! (great possible range though)
All these calculations also differ greatly over distance traveled.

I wonder what the re-fit even costs, i would imagine that is not cheap either. In any case i see no issues with the way QF have handled the situation. Its very easy for us to all say they did a bad job but thats after some events are known.

E

 

[oz_mark]

Boeing delays 787 program for third time

Boeing delays 787 program for third time | Markets | Markets News | Reuters

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) announced the third major delay on its 787 Dreamliner on Wednesday, citing slow progress on assembly and continuing problems with suppliers, putting the program about 15 months behind schedule.

The U.S. plane maker, which vies with EADS (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile, Research) unit Airbus for dominance of the commercial airplane market, pushed its target for the first test flight of the new plane to the fourth quarter of this year, as opposed to its last target of end-June 2008.

Boeing said the first 787 delivery, to Japan's All Nippon Airways Co (9202.T: Quote, Profile, Research), would take place in the third quarter of next year, as opposed to its previous target of early 2009. The first 787 delivery was originally planned for May 2008.

 

[Flying Fox]

Shame for QF & JQ that the delays have occurred.

Therefore, I would guess that there is some financial compensation coming their way (once a realistic delivery schedule is established) and I would expect some more options on 787s to be firmed at 'preferential' rates.

I think that QF will be OK in the end (maybe buy some Oasis 744s) but what of JQ and their expansion plans?

 

[ANstar]

I think that QF will be OK in the end (maybe buy some Oasis 744s) but what of JQ and their expansion plans?

QF wont go near the Oasis 747's. They have A380's coming online in 4 months and a few A330's being delviered also.

This delay will mainly effect the expansion of JQ.

 

[simongr]

And the delayed expansion plans of JQ will impact the overall profitability of JQ's owner - QF. POtentially reducing the available funds for investing in QF services/improving QF's offerings etc...

 

[oz_mark]

QF wont go near the Oasis 747's. They have A380's coming online in 4 months and a few A330's being delviered also.

This delay will mainly effect the expansion of JQ.

and the retirement plans of the 767's they were intended to replace.

 

[ANstar]

QF have just anniounced they have already agreed lease deals for 6 x more A330-200's for Jetstar. The deal just needs approval from the board as the delay has just been confirmed.

Dixon says the dleay was epxected, hence why the have already secured additonal aircraft.

 

[Flying Fox]

QF have just anniounced they have already agreed lease deals for 6 x more A330-200's for Jetstar. The deal just needs approval from the board as the delay has just been confirmed.

Dixon says the dleay was epxected, hence why the have already secured additonal aircraft.

I wonder where the A330-200's are coming from and when they can be introduced?

I thought that QF could lease some Oasis 744's to assist with the transition of the 743's out of the fleet and also provide coverage whilst the QF 744's get refurbished with Y+ and new interiors.

However, I can't wait to see the A380's in full QF colours! I have heard that they intend to have 4 delivered by 12/2008.

 

[oz_mark]

Media release from Qantas here: About Qantas - Newsroom

Qantas Statement on Further B787 Delays

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn/au/publicaffairs/introduction?ArticleID=paf_curr_intro​

Sydney, 10 April 2008
Qantas Airways said it had put in place contingencies to alleviate possible capacity constraints caused by the further delay of the B787 Dreamliner.

The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas Airways, Mr Geoff Dixon, said today Qantas was not surprised by the further delay announced by Boeing.

..and the bit ANstar mentioned...

Mr Dixon said Qantas had already secured a leasing agreement, subject to Board approval, for up to six A330 aircraft which would go into the Jetstar International operations.

"These aircraft are the same as currently used by Jetstar for its long haul flying and will provide adequate growth for Jetstar until the arrival of the Dreamliner."