Most frequently used airlines?

[simongr]

VS
QF
AN as in Ansett

I am quite surprised that, despite QF get the most whinges from us, QF seem to own at 50% +- of our market, well, at least market of us.

It is also options as well - domestically QF has the largest market share and a lot of people do not have the option to not fly QF. Int'ly options are less restricted but again corporate contracts kick in and frequency of service.

My caveat to that is though I do generally enjoy QF - it is the little things that get to me and the fact that I seem to be persona non grata sometimes...

 

[justin23]

Flying AA has made me realise how good QA is
Whereas flying CX made me thing QF was quite average.....

All in all I agree QF do better than most.

 

[NM]

Like anything, more customers more complaints.
Having said that a lot of people i can see have tried plenty of other options, including some people who have really spread there wings and flown a lot of time on some really unusual airlines.

Despite all the complaints there is a reason a lot of people do fly QF so much, generally they like it if not then its not like people are short of options and could vote with there feet and dollars.

E

I don't see too many major complaints from the most regular QF flyers. Many of the really vocal complaints are from less regular users. Maybe the regulars have become immune or tolerant to the problems

I have few complaints about the airline, service etc. But I have found a FF program that works better for my travel patterns and desired outcomes than the QF FF program currently offers.

There are often alternatives for those that don't like one product.

 

[Evan]

I don't see too many major complaints from the most regular QF flyers. Many of the really vocal complaints are from less regular users. Maybe the regulars have become immune or tolerant to the problems

I don't think so, i would say its just new flyers why do not have any idea how it works... and people who have never flown other airlines to know how good QF is most of the time. Sure we all have complaints (like why can't they load the new movies on the first of the month and not the 3rd or 4th etc) but really these are minor issues.

For me QF gets me where i want to go in the most efficient way and is nice to fly with.

I did notice very few people listed SQ as the most used or to far at the top of the list, and for the number of services out of AU this supprised me a lot. Maybe everybody has had the same issues i have had with them and they really are not as popular as people try to tell me.

E

 

[kpc]

I did notice very few people listed SQ as the most used or to far at the top of the list, and for the number of services out of AU this supprised me a lot. Maybe everybody has had the same issues i have had with them and they really are not as popular as people try to tell me.

E

I suspect that this is because SQ don't fly domestically within Australia - this might skew the figures a bit. To use SQ a lot from Australia means going via Sin everytime. I also think that there is a selection bias as well on a site like AFF. What would be interesting to compare is, given a route where one could either fly SQ or QF, which would most choose?
Interestingly, SQ are about to introduce a 4th daily flight from Syd to Sin in 2008. Along with the additional seats on the A380, this would suggest to me there is a huge demand for SQ.

 

[NM]

I suspect that this is because SQ don't fly domestically within Australia - this might skew the figures a bit. To use SQ a lot from Australia means going via Sin everytime. I also think that there is a selection bias as well on a site like AFF. What would be interesting to compare is, given a route where one could either fly SQ or QF, which would most choose?
Interestingly, SQ are about to introduce a 4th daily flight from Syd to Sin in 2008. Along with the additional seats on the A380, this would suggest to me there is a huge demand for SQ.

Another interesting breakdown would be proportion of travel based on miles or hours flown or even fare value rather than segments. Then the UA, SQ, NZ etc stats may look healthier. There are lots of ways to measure things.

 

[Evan]

All good point NM and kpc
I do of course see a bias for QF.... but i have flown SQ to NRT in the way of MEL-SIN-NRT !!! yes, thats almost as bad as flying to MEL-SYD-ADL and all you want to do is get to ADL.

I do see a lot of tour, groups and travel organised by specials on SQ. Maybe less frequent but a lot of first or second time flyers on SQ.

And please dont make me feel bad about SIN i have to live there for another 12 months or so.... but it does make it a lot cheaper to do my private travel

E

 

[dajop]

All good point NM and kpc
I do of course see a bias for QF.... but i have flown SQ to NRT in the way of MEL-SIN-NRT !!!

So have I, and to or from PEK, KIX, PVG, MNL, BKK, BOM, SGN, HAN + others. Often they are significantly cheaper than QF on their more "direct" routes. Probably NRT is most extreme, but time difference isn't usually that significant on most routes. Especially, as often it's not a choice between a MEL-xx_ service/MEL-SIN-xx_ service, rather it's a choice between MEL-SIN-xx_ and a MEL-SYD-xx_ service, involving a b*s ride. This tends to negate some of the benefits of being on a direct service ex-AUS.

 

[Therma]

I don't think so, i would say its just new flyers why do not have any idea how it works... and people who have never flown other airlines to know how good QF is most of the time. Sure we all have complaints (like why can't they load the new movies on the first of the month and not the 3rd or 4th etc) but really these are minor issues.

For me QF gets me where i want to go in the most efficient way and is nice to fly with.

I did notice very few people listed SQ as the most used or to far at the top of the list, and for the number of services out of AU this supprised me a lot. Maybe everybody has had the same issues i have had with them and they really are not as popular as people try to tell me.

E

SQ is on top of my list because I live in Singapore and as such offers the most convenient connections and the most flights out of the country. In fact as I look out of my window I can see the planes landing at the airport. What I like with SQ is consistency. This is not to say that they are perfect. With the number of flights I take I can tell that the service has been diluted. Last week I actually called the flight director and complained about a 2.5 hour meal service on a 4 hour flight. And the seats in a one year old 777 had bits of fabric sticking out. I expect that from US domestic, but not on a plane that was on the way to US through TPE (luckily I got off!).
But overall, I like SQ because the crew do not have attitude. With QF it is pot luck. You can have wonderful staff, or you can have your local cricket team rejects serving you. I am not anyone's mate, and I do not like the blockey matey service. I would rather have my baby bottle warmed up when I ask and not 90 minutes later because they are about to start a meal service. Being called mate hardly makes up for the baby screaming for the next 6 hours to Singapore, when she could have had her drink and gone to sleep. It does not take much effort to nuke some water. Nor do I appreciate being told in international Business Class that I should take another item from the pastry basket because "sir is quite a big boy". Nor do I want the middleaged Steve Vizard from Fast Forward impersonators to be having loud talks in the middle of the night in the pantry (next to my seat while I am trying to sleep) about the wonderful piece of flesh they procured on their last layover in BKK.

I want quite non-fussy non-intrusive service. I spend too much time on the plane to be at a mercy of the flight crew moods. SQ crew are very personable if you want to get to know them, otherwise they stay out of your brainspace. I flew QF very extensively in the past, and have had some genuinely nice service, but the inconsistencies in crew interactions, food quality and FF program that has you route MEL-SIN through Adelaide, Alice and Darwin with 6 hour layover, while a half empty 747 leaves MEL-SIN at the same time as your domestic to Adelaide is too much to bear. With SQ I can get my redemption pretty much as I want it, while QF makes it as difficult as they can.

 

[Keith009]

I was chatting with an SQ crew member recently, who sheepishly admitted that the SQ crews HATE Australian flights. :shock: And by extension any services where there are lots of us onboard, eg LHR. The reason? Apparently due to people like me who eat/drink non-stop. What's funny is that they put trainees on such flights to 'throw them off the deep end' so to speak. I think they've to work harder soon as SQ has just reduced the number of crew members on their 2 class B777-200 services.

Humph - our QF crew members must be the hardest working FAs in the world.

 

[JohnK]

I did notice very few people listed SQ as the most used or to far at the top of the list, and for the number of services out of AU this supprised me a lot. Maybe everybody has had the same issues i have had with them and they really are not as popular as people try to tell me.

I think SQ are very ordinary as an airline. I have only flown them 4 times short haul SIN-KUL and nothing special happened to change my opinion. Seats are very narrow and service, even though a short flight, is poor. Oh, and my bag was delayed in SIN and arrived in KUL around 8 hours after I did.

My mother flew SQ return SYD-SIN-ATH recently and has exactly the same opinion. We requested vegetarian meals for her and the meals had well.... very little vegetables and the rest of the service was nothing special. In saying all of this she will probably travel SQ again, if the price is right, as the choice on this route is very limited. QF and OA were fantastic but they are no more, GF was horrendous and is no more, TG is a little too expensive and there is no way she will backtrack via LHR or FRA with another carrier. And if JQ ever services this route, well forget it....

 

[kpc]

I think SQ are very ordinary as an airline. I have only flown them 4 times short haul SIN-KUL and nothing special happened to change my opinion. Seats are very narrow and service, even though a short flight, is poor.

I don't think you can judge an airline on a 45 minute flight, John

Oh, and my bag was delayed in SIN and arrived in KUL around 8 hours after I did.

This is not the norm, and can happen on any airline; it's more likely an airport issue as opposed to an airline issue.

I have my own issues with SQ, but they are mainly related to their PPS program. In the J cabin, SQ are leaps ahead of QF, and CX for that matter. I will try out both QF's and SQ's long haul Y product next year, the first time in Y for a long time, and will report back...I do agree with most of the points made by Therma above.

 

[Keith009]

I think SQ are very ordinary as an airline. I have only flown them 4 times short haul SIN-KUL and nothing special happened to change my opinion. Seats are very narrow and service, even though a short flight, is poor.

Well, that flight is about as long as a SYD-CBR (35 mins actual flying time) so I don't know what kind of service you were expecting other than drinks.

Oh, and my bag was delayed in SIN and arrived in KUL around 8 hours after I did.

I can assure you that's very rare for a SIN connection.

I am sorry that your mum did not have a good experience with SQ, inter alia. In saying that however, I don't know of any airline that can provide an 'extraordinary' kind of service in Economy other than the basics (2-3 meal services, drinks etc). I mean, it's still Economy. But from my SQ experiences I reckon the airline provides an above average-excellent product for Economy class - with a stable AVOD system offering a wide range of choice, great meals with above average quality wines, responsive FAs and above all - consistency. I've had a single anomalous SQ experience on SIN-KIX earlier this year but IMO that experience was substandard only by reason of comparison to the 'norm' on SQ. Admittedly I'd also have felt that the airline was 'nothing special' had that been my first and only flight with them thus far.

IMO QF isn't far behind SQ in whY - but the lower number of FAs on a 744 often mean that the service is sometimes not as responsive as that of SQ.

 

[JohnK]

I don't think you can judge an airline on a 45 minute flight, John

I am not judging based on my experience alone. I am casting judgement based on a number of factors including the experiences of my mother and other friends.

I have also cast judgement on other airlines without having had a single flight on them, ala JQ, based on the experiences, mostly negative, relayed by others.

There are people who think Garuda and Aeroflot, amongst others, are great airlines. I don't share their opinion and may never get to try these airlines. I know someone who thinks that GF is fantastic as he can get a row of 4 seats on his own down the back and sleep. My father said to me never again. His opinion is enough for me and I will never willingly give them a chance.

 

[straitman]

I don't think you can judge an airline on a 45 minute flight, John This is not the norm, and can happen on any airline; it's more likely an airport issue as opposed to an airline issue.

I have my own issues with SQ, but they are mainly related to their PPS program. In the J cabin, SQ are leaps ahead of QF, and CX for that matter. I will try out both QF's and SQ's long haul Y product next year, the first time in Y for a long time, and will report back...I do agree with most of the points made by Therma above.

kpc,

Surely JohnK and or anyone forms an opinion based upon what is delivered to them. They then update that opinion when something occurs to change it.

JohnK was only commenting from his experiences.

 

[kpc]

kpc,

Surely JohnK and or anyone forms an opinion based upon what is delivered to them. They then update that opinion when something occurs to change it.

JohnK was only commenting from his experiences.

Using your argument then, it's my opinion that drawing an opinion about an airline's service etc based on a very short shuttle flight (I note that John has subsequently added that his opinion has also been influenced by the experiences of others) does not do any justice to that airline, good or bad, esp on their longer routes. I don't recollecte stating in my post that John or anyone else was not entitled to form an opinion - whether I agree with it or not is besides the point. Isn't that the point of these forums to debate / question the ideas / opinions of others?

 

[Reggie]

With QF it is pot luck. You can have wonderful staff, or you can have your local cricket team rejects serving you. I am not anyone's mate, and I do not like the blockey matey service.

I want quite non-fussy non-intrusive service. I spend too much time on the plane to be at a mercy of the flight crew moods. SQ crew are very personable if you want to get to know them, otherwise they stay out of your brainspace.

I believe you have summed this up well, with your line on pot luck, but this is the same on all airlines. I however would agree that SQ do seem to have good crew more of the time from my limited personal experience and those of others reported here, than QF.

 

[Reggie]

Using your argument then, it's my opinion that drawing an opinion about an airline's service etc based on a very short shuttle flight does not do any justice to that airline, good or bad, esp on their longer routes. I don't recollect stating in my post that John or anyone else was not entitled to form an opinion - whether I agree with it or not is besides the point. Isn't that the point of these forums to debate / question the ideas / opinions of others?

I can see both sides, yes comparing SIN-KUL would be similar to comparing QF on MEL-LST, or BA on LHR-CDG where they literally throw food at you, and recollect almost immediately.

On the other habd I have not flown AA transatlantic, but still avoid it myself and advise others to not use because of my learnings from this particular forum.

I think others opionions and debate are a good thing.

 

[dajop]

I can see both sides, yes comparing SIN-KUL would be similar to comparing QF on MEL-LST, or BA on LHR-CDG where they literally throw food at you, and recollect almost immediately.

I were to draw inferences from a comparison of similar length widebody flights, say the MEL-CBR flights I've had on a QF 767 (35 mins flying time) and the SIN-KUL flights I've had on an SQ 777 (similar flying time), I would conclude that QF is the vastly superior airline, based on my experiences on those flights. But that's not really the right comparison to do, as QF domestic specialises in short sectors, whereas SQ's strength is more medium-long haul sectors.

The biggest problem with SQ is simply that the expectation created is much higher than on many airlines, and therefore average performance would seem to be below average. Occassionally I've had a sub-par SQ flight but on reflection it has probably at least matched the better flights I'd had on other carriers (eg. on a minor point - last time I flew SQ in J I had to wait probably all of two minutes for them to hang my coat after sitting down - which I thought at the time was a little bit slack of them as usually they whisk it away moments after you take the coat off. However last two times I've flown QF in J, probably 5 minutes or so after removing coat, I asked them to hang it - and had to wait a few more minutes for it to happen. Didn't really bother me, as I tend to be fairly laid back about these things and I didn't expect any better, but on SQ I would be appalled if that happened!)

 

[straitman]

Using your argument then, it's my opinion that drawing an opinion about an airline's service etc based on a very short shuttle flight (I note that John has subsequently added that his opinion has also been influenced by the experiences of others) does not do any justice to that airline, good or bad, esp on their longer routes. I don't recollecte stating in my post that John or anyone else was not entitled to form an opinion - whether I agree with it or not is besides the point. Isn't that the point of these forums to debate / question the ideas / opinions of others?

kpc,

No argument here. I was commenting solely on your statement ' I don't think you can judge an airline on a 45 minute flight, John'

I believe we can and we do make judgements from short or chance encounters.

Human nature is to form an opinion when ever anything happens. ie when you first meet someone or do something you subconsciously assess and decide you like/or dislike from that 10 sec or whatever the time frame of the encounter. Then each time you meet again you refine that opinion until ulitimately your ideas may (or may not) be substantially different from the first impressions.

All I was then saying is that anyone can judge (and we do) from even a 45 minute encounter, even if that judgement may ultimately be changed.