munitalP has run in with AFP at PER!

[medhead]

I read about the lost laser pointer the other day and I’ve been thinking about it and had an idea or suggestion. I haven’t read the entire thread, but did see some of the input about the various laws. You also seem to be unclear about which law was used to take the laser.

In general, the federal police aren’t going to be involved in enforcing state laws. That suggests they might have taken in because of the new importation laws. I thought these laws were about, mainly, green lasers over a certain power rating. But an importation ban doesn’t necessarily make it illegal to own said objects, or like mentioned for the WA legislation there might be a reasonable use allowance.

Assuming that you have a receipt number for the laser being taken, or a case number. I’d suggest writing a letter to the federal police with the following:

1. Explain the situation – you had this laser pointer, you use it for work, want is you work, you work with electricity on mining and minerals projects. You rely on the laser pointer because it safely allows you to identify live cables and wires while issuing instructions. It needs to be able to be seen in the midday sun in the north areas of the country. Focus on how it makes you job much safer. You have taken through a number of airports, on a recent trip through Perth airport it was confiscated by the Federal police. You could say here that normally it is checked in, but you forgot this time due to an unforseen event at the job site.

2. Explain that you are unsure of why it was taken and ask for them to explain reasons for it being taken and the laws involved.

3. Ask for the laser pointer to be returned as it is critical to you safely performing your work. Promise to always put it in checked luggage with your other work tools in future.

Try the Perth Office: 619 Murray Street, West Perth WA 6000; PO Box 586, West Perth WA 6005.

This all might sound stupid, but the thing is that government’s work off paperwork, letters and such, and they should respond to your letter. At the very least your get a reply explaining the law, but you might also get the laser pointer back if they deem your work use as reasonable. (if it hasn’t been destroyed already)

 

[markis10]

I think you will find the AFP have the right to enforce WA laws under their community policing role at the 11 nominated airports for which they have primary responsibility for, in fact there is a good chance they were WA Police anyway in their roles as AUP or Airport Uniform Police on secondment to the AFP.

 

[Warks]

I thought the NSW govt (if you can call it a gummint) was banning laser pointers a couple of years back in a knee-jerk reaction to the plane flashing that happened here. There was a flurry of it and then I never heard about it again. Still see them for sale in stores though.

Sort of thing you'd expect in the LOTFAP.

 

[Mal]

I think you will find the AFP have the right to enforce WA laws under their community policing role at the 11 nominated airports for which they have primary responsibility for, in fact there is a good chance they were WA Police anyway in their roles as AUP or Airport Uniform Police on secondment to the AFP.

Yep, just like they can arrest people for bag snatching, or shoplifting. Not normally a Fed Police matter (except in Canberra), but they enforce all the laws around the airport.

 

[medhead]

Yep, just like they can arrest people for bag snatching, or shoplifting. Not normally a Fed Police matter (except in Canberra), but they enforce all the laws around the airport.

Well airports are the same as Canberra, federal jurisdiction. Are they enforcing WA laws or Federal laws that cover the same offences? But if enforcing WA law it strengthens the case to prove that there is a lawful reason for having the laser pointer.

 

[markis10]

Well airports are the same as Canberra, federal jurisdiction. Are they enforcing WA laws or Federal laws that cover the same offences? But if enforcing WA law it strengthens the case to prove that there is a lawful reason for having the laser pointer.

Airports are not the same as Canberra, AFP has primary responsibility for policing in Canberra but at airports there is a whole heap of responsibilities lumpted on a heap of different organisations, including DOTARs and even the airport owner. Its a good question though as to what power the security officer was using to hold the item and passenger given they are promarily there to enforce the DOTARS requirements, which AFAIK dont extend to Lasers, but I am hardly an expert in that area!

 

[medhead]

Airports are not the same as Canberra, AFP has primary responsibility for policing in Canberra but at airports there is a whole heap of responsibilities lumpted on a heap of different organisations, including DOTARs and even the airport owner. Its a good question though as to what power the security officer was using to hold the item and passenger given they are promarily there to enforce the DOTARS requirements, which AFAIK dont extend to Lasers, but I am hardly an expert in that area!

It is indeed hard to know what they were enforcing. that is why i suggest writing to ask.
But i do know that airports are a no go zone for state government regulators, agencies and the such. Mainly based on experiences realted to emergency response. They are Commonwealth places and state law just doesn't apply. Same as defence establishments.

 

[markis10]

But i do know that airports are a no go zone for state government regulators, agencies and the such. Mainly based on experiences realted to emergency response. They are Commonwealth places and state law just doesn't apply. Same as defence establishments.

As someone who had some involvement with emergency response from a SAR perspective I can understand what you are saying, however they are far from a no go area, its just that federal laws overide state laws where there is any possibility of an overlap, just like state laws overide local government laws etc etc. In this case I would imagine Customs and Federal police have the border control responsibilities re imports etc as well as counter terrorism for the AFP, and then there would be shared responsibilities for the aviation safety laws with DOTARs etc for which the checkpoint has been set up. Maybe a letter to the local MP would be in order with a CC to the airport owner asking what authority the checkpoint had to hold an item not covered under the DOTARs laws??

 

[medhead]

As someone who had some involvement with emergency response from a SAR perspective I can understand what you are saying, however they are far from a no go area, its just that federal laws overide state laws where there is any possibility of an overlap, just like state laws overide local government laws etc etc. In this case I would imagine Customs and Federal police have the border control responsibilities re imports etc as well as counter terrorism for the AFP, and then there would be shared responsibilities for the aviation safety laws with DOTARs etc for which the checkpoint has been set up. Maybe a letter to the local MP would be in order with a CC to the airport owner asking what authority the checkpoint had to hold an item not covered under the DOTARs laws??

Letters to the MP and airport owners are good ideas as well. Jusy suggested writing to the AFP as they took the item and are probably holding it for 30 days before destroying it. Best to register and interest before that happens.

I was thinking more about responding to a situation at the airport. SAR is just another user of the airport facilities, no need to worry about cross jurisdictional issues.

 

[notmensa]

Australian Standards

There seems to be two separate issues here: which law was operating at the time (federal law or WA state law) and whether the laser pointer itself complied with the relevant Australian Standard - AS/NZS 2211.1: 2004 Safety of Laser Products, Part 1:Equipment Classification, Requirements and User’s Guide (IEC 60825.1:2001, MOD) - which is called up in both federal and state laws.

The basic requirements of IEC 60825.1:2001, MOD are on the Wiki page here:
Laser safety - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Scroll down to 'Revised System'.

The labelling requirements are part of the Standard, so if the laser pointer had no yellow triangle and labelling indicating the Class, it would not comply with the Standard.

 

[Nigelinoz]

They are banned in Queensland as well according to this-
Ministerial Media Statements
although obviously legitimate possession for purposes of work etc are excluded.

 

[k_sheep]

Laser offender spared jail over Qantas incident

Laser offender spared jail over Qantas incident - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

How very topical

 

[stryker]

Don't you mean "tropical"?

 

[stryker]

Sort of thing you'd expect in the LOTFAP.

That's right, the kind of place where you couldn't buy an AK47.

 

[medhead]

I thought the NSW govt (if you can call it a gummint) was banning laser pointers a couple of years back in a knee-jerk reaction to the plane flashing that happened here. There was a flurry of it and then I never heard about it again. Still see them for sale in stores though.

The funny thing is that on at least one night the airplane flashing incident in sydney was actually due to an entertainment laser set up by the Sydney City Council to advertise some event on QVB.

But just came across this information related to NSW as part of my work.

Laser pointers are hand held, battery operated devices designed or adapted to emit a laser beam that may be used for the purposes of aiming, targeting or pointing. In recent times, some members of the public have acted irresponsibly by directing the laser beam into the cabins of motor vehicles and the coughpits of aircraft. This reckless practice can blind drivers and pilots and has the potential to cause significant loss of life.

To put a stop to such behaviour, the Government has made it an offence for anyone to have a laser pointer in their custody in a public place or to use a laser pointer in a public place without a reasonable excuse. If a police officer has reasonable grounds for suspecting that you are in possession of a laser pointer in a public place, they may search you, confiscate the laser and commence legal action.

The NSW Police Force understands that people use laser pointers for legitimate purposes and that some people need to carry their laser pointers around with them. For example, some teachers and builders use laser pointers in their jobs and need to carry them to and from their workplaces. Low powered laser pointers will continue to be available for such uses. Other people carry lasers to pursue hobbies such as astronomy. Rest assured that if you have a reasonable excuse for carrying your laser, then there will not be a problem.

New legislation also restricts who can possess and/or use laser pointers with a power level of greater than one milliwatt. From 18 July 2008 you will require a permit to possess or use such a laser pointer, unless an exemption applies to you. To apply for a permit, you will need to contact the Firearms Registry on 1300 362 562 or visit www.police.nsw.gov.au/community_issues/firearms/prohibited_weapon_permits. Permits will only be issued to applicants who have a genuine reason for having such a device. For example, that the laser pointer is required for the type of business/employment in which you are engaged.

Note that you will not need to obtain a permit to possess/use a laser pointer with a power level greater than one milliwatt if you are a member of an approved astronomical organisation.

Also be aware that if you obtained the laser pointer before 18 July 2008, you will not need to obtain a permit until 1 December 2008. Thereafter, if you wish to retain your laser pointer, you will need to obtain a permit through the Firearms Registry.
If you have specific questions about the law on laser pointers please click here.