My Personal Valuation of Qantas FF and Velocity Points

[MEL_Traveller]

Interesting, when I looked at return trips Melbourne to Perth for the two of us, the typical higher off peak rate I could find was $319 each, each way - which equated to $1276, where one point =1.28 cents. i.e ($1276 - (4X$88))x100/72000 = 1.28 cents/point.

yes - but QF regualrly (and currently) has sale fares MEL-PER for $189 each way (incidentally this is cheaper than Jetstar is advertising!). By the time you have to pay the fees and charges for the award booking, your points are only saving you a few dollars.

In some cases, 20,000 or 30,000 Qantas frequent flyer points are saving as little as $20 off published sale fares.

 

[Renato1]

Yes for domestic, I believe no for the cheapest international economy "Sale" fares but as OBB said it is always best to check the fare conditions before booking

Thanks for the information. Something to think about if my wife gets cranky with economy.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

My understanding is that the 72,000 Award would be in J so the revenue fare is far more than $638 pp

It depends what time of the day one is flying. A lot of people have little choice because of work commitments and would have to pay the very high fares which I saw like yours. But with the luxury of being retired, I can just rule them out.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[boomy]

Totally agree what a waste. i've always used QFF points for OS long haul.

It's not always a waste. Depends how many points you have and how much the ticket cost.
For example, BNE-PER fares can sometimes be as high as $540 in discount Y and $1,900 in J so using 36K points plus ~$36 to fly J is good value IMO.

 

[Mogul]

Points for me are valued at nothing and anything I get by using them is a bonus.

Having said that I like everyone else here have saved a lot of $$$$$ by using them.

 

[opusman]

You may as well redeem for toasters as for Y flights. But upgrades or J/F flights are a worthwhile use of points.

 

[Renato1]

yes - but QF regualrly (and currently) has sale fares MEL-PER for $189 each way (incidentally this is cheaper than Jetstar is advertising!). By the time you have to pay the fees and charges for the award booking, your points are only saving you a few dollars.

In some cases, 20,000 or 30,000 Qantas frequent flyer points are saving as little as $20 off published sale fares.

Yes, I did notice those cheap fares in March next year from my random selecting of travel times. They equated to 1 point = 0.53c which is a very poor way of using the points.

Perhaps you would know - how long would those sale prices typically be available for?
Would they disappear by say the end of the year?
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

Totally agree what a waste. i've always used QFF points for OS long haul.

For where I want to fly (Europe), any saving from using points on the overseas flights seem to substantially evaporate when the taxes and carrier fees are taken into account. Last time I looked they seemed to account for around 40% of the price of the fare had I paid cash (which wasn't the case 6 to 10 years ago, when they were more like 10% or 15% of the price, from memory).
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

You may as well redeem for toasters as for Y flights. But upgrades or J/F flights are a worthwhile use of points.

But we already have six toasters.
Regards,
Renato

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes, I did notice those cheap fares in March next year from my random selecting of travel times. They equated to 1 point = 0.53c which is a very poor way of using the points.

Perhaps you would know - how long would those sale prices typically be available for?
Would they disappear by say the end of the year?
Regards,
Renato

They are extremely common! They range anywhere from the $189 we are seeing now, to $199 and sometimes even $209. The current sale ends in two days, and maybe after that they'll have a week or so of 'normal' fares ($300+)... but they'll be right back down again soon after.

I think it's pretty fair to say that unless you want to travel at ultra peak periods... for example high demand school holiday days (the fri/sat at the start and Sat/Sun at the end), easter or Christmas/New Year, the various Qantas sales will cover almost every period outside those key dates. You just have to book in advance sometimes.

Jetstar was offering $129 fares MEL-PER earlier this year... and those aren't uncommon either. Add a few dollars for a bag and the value of points is looking quite poor.

 

[bismarck]

I'll tend to value points at around 2c each (usually SQ and VA points though).

QF points are valued less...maybe 1c/point but I'm not collecting them very actively at the moment.

Tend to redeem for international J awards.

 

[burmans]

Points for me are valued at nothing and anything I get by using them is a bonus.

Since they have no value to you can you give me some, I guarantee I will value them more than at nothing!

 

[Renato1]

They are extremely common! They range anywhere from the $189 we are seeing now, to $199 and sometimes even $209. The current sale ends in two days, and maybe after that they'll have a week or so of 'normal' fares ($300+)... but they'll be right back down again soon after.

I think it's pretty fair to say that unless you want to travel at ultra peak periods... for example high demand school holiday days (the fri/sat at the start and Sat/Sun at the end), easter or Christmas/New Year, the various Qantas sales will cover almost every period outside those key dates. You just have to book in advance sometimes.

Jetstar was offering $129 fares MEL-PER earlier this year... and those aren't uncommon either. Add a few dollars for a bag and the value of points is looking quite poor.

Thanks very much for your insights and information. There will always be times when one needs to get somewhere, like for a wedding, and times when one wants the better weather and there are less sales, where the points will come in handy. But on several occasions yesterday doing my searches I agree with you - not worth using points id sale tickets are around.

Curiously, I also looked at other locations. Cairns was pretty much booked out for award flights next month. And Uluru was pretty weird, as the direct Jetstar flights are heaps cheaper than the indirect and much longer Qantas and Virgin Flights.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

I'll tend to value points at around 2c each (usually SQ and VA points though).

QF points are valued less...maybe 1c/point but I'm not collecting them very actively at the moment.

Tend to redeem for international J awards.

We don't seem to be far apart in our valuations.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[amaroo]

That's a lot of point spend. Some years back my measly 500,000 points took us to two trips to Europe, flying to two and three capitols. Can I take it that you aren't flying economy?
Cheers,
Renato

First and business - long haul. This our 10th year of redeeming and we're only interested in long haul premium travel ... have been known to spurge on a few domestic JASA when they were all the rage.

The spend this year covers 2 x return F LHR, 1 x J return SIN, 4 x J return to FCO/CDG with 2 x F CDG-HKG thrown in for parents

The spend so far for next year covers 2 x J return to JFK

Every time I look at the retail price for flights - I just smile :mrgreen: If specials are good enough we'll bite ... a BA deal in 2011 for "buy J - fly F" was good enough for the wallet to come out for 5 x SYD-LHR-SYD.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

yes - but QF regualrly (and currently) has sale fares MEL-PER for $189 each way (incidentally this is cheaper than Jetstar is advertising!). By the time you have to pay the fees and charges for the award booking, your points are only saving you a few dollars.

In some cases, 20,000 or 30,000 Qantas frequent flyer points are saving as little as $20 off published sale fares.

The cheaper airfares become then the less incentive to use points. Fares now are cheaper than they ever have been. Who remembers flights to/from the East Coast to PER mid 1980's that were $600.00 plus each way? If you could've used points back then for transcon flights it would've been like winning lotto.

Thanks for the information. Something to think about if my wife gets cranky with economy.

Renato if it ain't broke don't fix it. Be thankful that you can still travel whY because once she's had a taste of J they'll be no turning back - that's when you'll really know cranky! :shock:

It depends what time of the day one is flying. A lot of people have little choice because of work commitments and would have to pay the very high fares which I saw like yours. But with the luxury of being retired, I can just rule them out.

As we know find award seats in premium cabins can be a real challenge so if you're faced with having to fly in whY you can minimise the discomfort a few ways eg:

a) breaking the journey and stopping over en-route eg Aust to Europe by taking a day flight to Asia then a night or two in a hotel then a day flight to Europe so you don't have to sleep on the plane plus a late pm arrival into Europe means immediate checkin at your hotel

b) USA to Aust having a stopover in Hawaii on the way home which is a day flight (unless on NZ) plus because they're 20 hours behind BNE it's a similar time of day so minimal jet lag (actually none for me)

c) Getting access to an airport lounge either through your frequent flyer status or a paid lounge that offers showers for a freshen up if in between flights or even an airport hotel for shorter stopovers if an evening arrival and morning departure the next day

Every time I look at the retail price for flights - I just smile :mrgreen: If specials are good enough we'll bite ... a BA deal in 2011 for "buy J - fly F" was good enough for the wallet to come out for 5 x SYD-LHR-SYD.

The case of the almost downgraded M-I-L from F to J that didn't happen. :shock:

 

[lovetravellingoz]

For where I want to fly (Europe), any saving from using points on the overseas flights seem to substantially evaporate when the taxes and carrier fees are taken into account. Last time I looked they seemed to account for around 40% of the price of the fare had I paid cash (which wasn't the case 6 to 10 years ago, when they were more like 10% or 15% of the price, from memory).
Regards,
Renato

That is why most on this forurm do not redeem on FF programs for Y where there are substantial fuel fines. Whereas redeeming for J/F tickets generally get a ticket at a cost much lower than if you had to buy, and indeed cheaper thana bought Y ticket.

So if you want to use points for Y travel see if you can find a program where it is lower or nil. Unfortunately this is often difficulat to accumulate points in.

Depending on the program, some partner awards can produce lower fees. ie I once booked MEL-CNS return vis Krisflyer fyoing VA metal as not only was the point cost lower, fees and charges were $0. So it can be worthwhile checking this out on some routes if the partner charges less that the actuall FF program you have points with.

Not that I currently fly Y long haul international, but if I did I think I would mainly buy sales fairs and save my points for a later J/F redemption. But if you have no intention of J/F then you may as well redeem on the best Y redemption routes. ie With QFF a RTW Onewold redemption (see that thread on how to maximise).


I generally regard FF tickets as not flying for free, but rather flying cheaply.

In effect I get to fly Europe return for some of my time (to learn and acquire) say about $1000 return in Business after including flight taxes and charges, and say a little but extra to go towards card fees (yes are often free, but I do pay for some cards) and the occassional CC surchage.

Compared to Y this:
* still saves me money
* allows me to travel in a lot more comfort (which normally means less jet lag allowing me to make more out of my time away)
* extract extra value in nicer wine and food..

I tend to finf that travel in J or F becomes part of the overall trip, whereas travel in Y (if long-haul) is more an obstacle to be overcome.

For short haul trips whether in Oz or overseas I will mainly travel in Y as the airtime is brief, and the prices are often vary cheap. with the airtime being brief there is often also little to be gained from the benefits in J or F.

 

[Alanslegal]

My objective and helpful side says "if possible, use points for long haul business or first class".

My selfish side says "go ahead and book domestic business class flights OR anything at the Qantas store"

Less people using points on their long haul flights means better odds for me securing that elusive J/F seat.

 

[amaroo]

The case of the almost downgraded M-I-L from F to J that didn't happen. :shock:

That's the one. Almost spoilt my day at the Pen BKK pool ... my phone manner was sufficient for them to turn their sights towards another poor sod.

 

[Renato1]

That is why most on this forurm do not redeem on FF programs for Y where there are substantial fuel fines. Whereas redeeming for J/F tickets generally get a ticket at a cost much lower than if you had to buy, and indeed cheaper thana bought Y ticket.

So if you want to use points for Y travel see if you can find a program where it is lower or nil. Unfortunately this is often difficulat to accumulate points in.

Depending on the program, some partner awards can produce lower fees. ie I once booked MEL-CNS return vis Krisflyer fyoing VA metal as not only was the point cost lower, fees and charges were $0. So it can be worthwhile checking this out on some routes if the partner charges less that the actuall FF program you have points with.

Not that I currently fly Y long haul international, but if I did I think I would mainly buy sales fairs and save my points for a later J/F redemption. But if you have no intention of J/F then you may as well redeem on the best Y redemption routes. ie With QFF a RTW Onewold redemption (see that thread on how to maximise).


I generally regard FF tickets as not flying for free, but rather flying cheaply.

In effect I get to fly Europe return for some of my time (to learn and acquire) say about $1000 return in Business after including flight taxes and charges, and say a little but extra to go towards card fees (yes are often free, but I do pay for some cards) and the occassional CC surchage.

Compared to Y this:
* still saves me money
* allows me to travel in a lot more comfort (which normally means less jet lag allowing me to make more out of my time away)
* extract extra value in nicer wine and food..

I tend to finf that travel in J or F becomes part of the overall trip, whereas travel in Y (if long-haul) is more an obstacle to be overcome.

For short haul trips whether in Oz or overseas I will mainly travel in Y as the airtime is brief, and the prices are often vary cheap. with the airtime being brief there is often also little to be gained from the benefits in J or F.

Thanks - though everyone here including you seem to have better luck than me scoring Business seats. How do you do it on European flights?

In 2005 and 2009 I had enough points for Business seats, and ringing up Qantas some five months in advance of when I wanted to go - yes, I could get Business for some legs of the journey, but via weird journeys requiring stopping in Mumbai. I rejected them outright, and nothing was available on the direct routes. Business seats are obviously better value because it only takes twice the points to buy something that costs three times the cash price.

Personally, I've only ever had two lousy trips in economy, the rest being great. One was from Rome to Madrid using FF points on Iberian Airlines - I didn't fit in the seat, and it was an agonising two hour flight. The other was with British Airways from Sydney to Bangkok using FF points. Apart from a baby crying the entire way and the parents and cabin staff not giving two hoots - I starved. The BA staff firstly went and served all the people who wanted vegetarian meals, then they gave out the regular meals - half of which were vegetarian and the other having the tiniest piece of meat (my wife gave me half her tiny piece). I was ravenous when I got off the plane - I've never felt starved on any other long trip with any other carrier.

I haven't flown BA since, and when I was booked to fly on carriers I didn't know, I subsequently always took packets of beef jerky with me, just in case.
Regards,
Renato