My thoughts on MEL-PER A330 flight

[jpp42]

I had no idea that crew members come and say hello to passengers in economy class. I have not seen this on any other airline? This individual sort of service I only thought was evident in J Cabins and on Private jets?

As OWE, I had this happen on CX as well (CX also gave me several "op-ups" to Premium Economy which were much appreciated).

 

[jpp42]

I dont care about greetings if they are a required task imposed by management and therefore unlikely to be genuine. Contrived greetings are cringe.

I'd say you're a bit naïve if you think that kind of thing is rarely anything but contrived? Yes, some flight attendants have a service-focused attitude and might genuinely greet someone they personally recognise because they really are that frequent a flyer. But a CSM going through the manifest and welcoming someone based on the status listed there, is clearly following a service standard that is established ("contrived") by management. I suspect Qantas has stopped the practice because they actually don't really want to be providing perks (like bringing drinks from business class) that the QFF-ers might ask for at the time of this greeting.

 

[Saab34]

When I flew Virgin 777 long haul in Y, as a Gold/Plat they referred to me as ‘welcome back mr xx_’ when entering the aircraft.

Was one Cabin Manager who even remembered me from the outbound leg. Apparently I had the same name as her son (more a unique name) so she referred to me by first name when coming back home.

 

[RichardMEL]

Slightly off topic...but pre COVID I had flown Budapest-Helsinki-Tokyo-Helsinki-Budapest with AY all within 5 days. On the flight back to Budapest from Helsinki after the long haul the same CC member who had been working the Budapest to Helsinki sector 5 days earlier immediately recognised me on boarding and said something like ."Gosh you have been to Japan and back already"!!...and provided just great service on the Airbus 321 up the front. This is the kind of recognition that amazes me.

but this is exactly it - the personal touch and has NOTHING to do with service standards or requirements of any alliance. That's someone who remembered you (and your routing, which is pretty impressive for anyone imo!) and that brings a real personal connection and experience.

I've had that kind of thing - on SQ (admittedly in F), EK on trans-tasman tags (I'd ask oh you're flying the return leg tomorrow? I'll see you there" and then "hi again! welcome back!") on QF (again F - a FA who recalled me), a number of QF dom J flights - CSM's etc again recognising me (probably grumbling to themselves "oh no, not that SoB again!") and the like. These are great and are what I call a people to people thing. Sure, it's a function of the volume of travel, and specially if in a much more refined cabin with far less pax like F, but it's just fantastic when it happens.

I'd take one of these for 100 of a forced and non genuine greeting

 

[Quickstatus]

But a CSM going through the manifest and welcoming someone based on the status listed there, is clearly following a service standard

=" contrived " as per my post
.

Why only greet certain passengers?.
The whole expectation/service standard of greeting premium passengers is an acknowledgment of their business and loyalty and possibly fostering a continuing relationship.
If we accept that, why not for every passenger?. Greetings do not cost anything - people do it all the time in all sorts of contexts. Isn't every passenger (customer) important to the airline? And if a greeting improves the relationship, maybe the airline gets more repeat customers.

I'm in the service industry and I can say with great certainty that customers know when greetings are hollow. So any greeting has to be genuine and it's difficult to be seen to be genuine when one person gets a greeting and the next doesnt.

 

[sudoer]

Wow that’s interesting. Would be even more interesting to see who actually follows that and more importantly who doesn’t bother at all.

In my experience, the most consistent airlines for welcomes are CX and JL (unsurprisingly) including in economy. Only international routes though. I've also had welcomes on QF and MH but only when flying J.

Never had a domestic flight welcome on any airline, in any class.

 

[RooFlyer]

I suspect Qantas has stopped the practice because they actually don't really want to be providing perks (like bringing drinks from business class) that the QFF-ers might ask for at the time of this greeting.

To be honest, I've always thought the sometimes indifferent service aspect on Qantas is a combination of 1) Natural Australian antipathy to being a 'servant' and 2) Staff being disenchanted with their employer and thinking 'why the hell should I go the extra mile for these people when I'm paid cough and treated badly by management?' BTW I think that's part of the reason why QF priority boarding is so hit and miss - 'not inclined to make these people's experience particularly great when my management doesn't recognise my skills'

In my experience, the most consistent airlines for welcomes are CX and JL (unsurprisingly) including in economy. Only international routes though. I've also had welcomes on QF and MH but only when flying J.

Add QR to that - I'm certain they are instructed to particularly recognise Qantas FFers to gratify their own CEO by a positive passenger experience compared to flying on Qantas

 

[Sprucegoose]

Wow that’s interesting. Would be even more interesting to see who actually follows that and more importantly who doesn’t bother at all.

Setting aside particular airline cultures, I would say those carriers whose management and staff accept high levels of formality and possess a high power distance index would be the most compliant.

Next, I would rank those airlines that can punitively sanction staff for non-compliance.

Thirdly I would say the least compliant would be those cultures exhibiting high individuality levels and are generally more indulgent.

CSM greeting is a oneworld service standard that all member airlines are supposed to follow:

Understandable OWA would want some service uniformity across their network.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

sigh. Poochie.. you know the A220 cabin is actually raved about by most flyers right? have you flown on one? Plus of course the 220 is designed as a smaller capacity aircraft for thinner routes - ie regional. You'll see those on ADL-OOL, MEL-TSV, SYD-ROK and PER-BME more than MEL-PER.

Or do you mean the 320/321 (which is most likely)? In which case - a wider cabin than the 737 and thus a smidge more comfortable in both classes.

Japan is a TOTALLY different situation than Australia. They have one huge thing we do not - VOLUME.

In the good old days Japan used modified 747SP's (dubbed the SR iirc) in Japan that carried a huge number of mostly Y pax between say Tokyo and Osaka - the demand being that high - even with Shinkansen offering a very good alternative.

Australia is a huge country that has only a few population centres with a whole lot of nothing and much lower levels of demand. widebodies like 787's and 350's are very expensive, and also actually designed for long haul ops - flying them on things like MEL-SYD is actually fairly inefficient for the aircraft but the capacity is what it's about - which is why you do see some of these aircraft floating around doing these runs.

Very rarely does transcon flights like PER-MEL/SYD require major upguages in capacity (think AFL Grand Finals and the like - where QF used to be able to throw a 747-300 on there back in the day). QF don't have 787 capacity sitting around doing nothing to just bung on the routes - except as the tags eg QF5/6/9/10 - which they do and do sell as domestic - which is exactly what you're arguing for.

The other thing is that QF, VA etc operate on a frequency model over capacity. Japan could support say hourly or two hourly 787-8's on some routes with demand. You would NEVER see that on Australian routes even if the airlines could support it. The preference is to provide high availability schedules eg MEL-SYD every 30min-an hour, even :15 during peaks on smaller aircraft like the 737. If QF did not do this and had the wides you want, you might see flights at say 0600, 0800, 1200, 1500 etc. Not exactly what most punters would want. And on transcons? instead of say 5 or 6 transcons you might come down to 2 or 3.

yeah the narrowbodies are unpopular, specially on transcons, but they provide for great schedule flexibility for the airline and in the Australian environment that's better to offer schedule and price flexibility to ustomers.

QF's decision to replace the 737's with A320/321's (mostly 321's it seems - which is a very AA strategy imo) is basically the same thing - in a lightly bigger cabin, more efficient aircraft and again providing for frequency =- and the capacity increase of a 321 vs a 737-800 will probably see less widebodies on domestic routes full stop (but probably more seats in J per departure for upgraders).

Anyway can't equate Japan to Australia for quite a few reasons.

What you like I might not like, and vv.
I love my wide body planes, ... have for years.
Pedantic yes, small minded maybe, but I want my 787 or 350 ta muchly.

 

[Quickstatus]

I just spoke with a retired ex A380 CSM.
She said the people who want a greeting should know that in reality the CC don't give a S***

 

[Tropic]

retired ex A380 CSM

Let me guess...with QF?

 

[Quickstatus]

Let me guess

Her other views:
AJ is a tool
The uniform is s***
Miranda Kerr is not a flight attendant
A passenger who sits in 1A is more often than not self important
The inflight food is S***. But she likes Rockpool.
She detests people who walk into the toilets wearing only socks

 

[Quickstatus]

Her other views:

Oh, and some people should not wear QF JimJams. But worse, they have no insight that they should not.

 

[RichardMEL]

What you like I might not like, and vv.
I love my wide body planes, ... have for years.
Pedantic yes, small minded maybe, but I want my 787 or 350 ta muchly.

I guess you've missed my point totally. possibly deliberately.

I like widebodies too. The 777 is my all time fave aircraft. I get it.

What we might like and prefer is not realistic in the world of actual airline ops.

You might want a 76... I mean 787 to fly direct from ADL to everywhere, but it's just NOT going to happen. OTOH you might bemoan the purchase of A220's to replace 717's and add more options, but most people would really enjoy the potential those aircraft bring to open up more routes or offer schedule flexibility on thinner routes - specially out of a place like ADL.

I guess it's good you're not in an airline's network planning area

 

[Mr H]

If I might be a contrarian… I will actively avoid the 787 because cabin crew blank out the windows.

 

[RichardMEL]

If I might be a contrarian… I will actively avoid the 787 because cabin crew blank out the windows.

not all crews on all routes - but I take your point. It's frustrating when they do take control and you don't have a choice in the matter one way or the other(though I would agree during landing/take off they should be clear)

one of my own personal dislikes of the 787 (otherwise a beautiful aircraft imo, though 350 is sexier)... my other beef with the e-windows being that they do not go fully dark, so broad daylight outside and you get this greenish light coming through even when on the max setting (manual or crew set)... so that gets frustrating for me personally, specially say 5h into a transpac and want a rest and it's still flowing in. So yeah.. a neat gimick and one that works if you want to be able to look out but have it not fully open it's quite good, but overall a bit of a fail for me.

 

[Tropic]

the CC don't give a S***

Not actually surprising. No idea but dont think being a FA is a life calling like the Priesthood/Sisters of Mercy ...or nursing (despite the surprising number of FA being ex nurses... )
Perhaps in the olden days (50s) it was a attractive career option for young single ladies (and gentle men) with acceptable deportment, height/figure and serious dislike of typing... but surely, the main motivator for FA would always have been the travel to exotic destinations (like Alice Springs, Kununurra and NYC..) and the other airline perks - surely not the pleasure of having to paint a smile on your dial while serving slop to annoying disgruntled pax with unrealistic expectations? Got to be hard to be customer focused when you dont feel appreciated and all you're thinking about is your next layover... who knows.

 

[Quickstatus]

all you're thinking about is your next layover

Ever seen the CC walk past at luggage retrieval. The last thing they will do is talk to passengers.

 

[Ade]

CX also gave me several "op-ups" to Premium Economy which were much appreciated

Ahh! the sweet old days BC, when almost every flight from HKG-MAA or MAA-HKG were op-up'ed to PE as OWE ... For me it was once at check-in at MAA and other times at the gate - scan the BP, red light flashes with the message "SEAT ERROR", agent checks the computer, strikes off the Y seat # from the BP, writes down the new PE seat # ... and promptly welcomed by the FA after seated, the FAs on CX carried a water bottle with them and each time someone stopped at my seat, they offer a bottle of water - on the spot... God, I wish those days are back ...

 

[Ade]

I'm in the service industry and I can say with great certainty that customers know when greetings are hollow.

Agree with this. Even before the customer realises the hollow greeting, I think, for me, as a worker in the service industry, I realise it and it it shows in my face, body landuage, tone of voice etc. It's like I know that I'm doing or going to do a hollow greeting (may be the customer was troublesome or a known trouble-maker etc) and then in a split second, the customer will also realise it ... And as a customer when I go to a different business, I know when the greeting is hollow and rulebook mandated rather than service oriented.