Natural wine? Anyone else a fan?

[Rug]

I once saw a map of the concentration of copper in the topsoil across Bordeaux.

There has been so much copper used there since the late 19th century as Bordeaux mix (copper sulfate + slaked lime) for fungus control that a geochemist analysing samples without knowing their origin would easily conclude that the sample collector had stumbled on the world's greatest copper-lode.

Copper sulfate approved for organic use in various jurisdictions can be more environmentally problematic than some synthetic fungicides not allowed in organic farming because copper is persistent and toxic above a certain concentration.

Sulfur is also an acceptable fungicide in organic farming. The stench of sulfur in the air in Burgundy in summer is something I will never forget.

What about Kalleske wines?

 

[afro]

Now if that's the definition, a producer like Timo Mayer in the Yarra who makes one of Australias best Pinots (in my opinion) is a 'natural wine producer'.

timo mayer pinot is natural wine?i didn't know that, not that anyone has talked about it, i only know his wine are usually 100% wholebunch.

 

[JohnM]

As I mentioned upthread, I think the distinction between what is 'natural' wine, what is well-promoted hip small producer, and 'sustainable' wine is seriously blurred.

 

[wine-muller]

Yep, there are a lot more producers making wines that could fit under the natural wine banner than people think. One that surprised me recently was Standish, chatting with Dan he casually mentioned that his 2016's had no acid correction, no fining, minimal sulphur etc, and all the focus is on getting things correct in the vineyard so there's little, if any, correction required in the winery. I like producers that are operating like this - you're getting a good expression of the vineyard & vintage, whilst quality isn't beholden to philosophy.

 

[georgehall]

timo mayer pinot is natural wine?i didn't know that, not that anyone has talked about it, i only know his wine are usually 100% wholebunch.

In so far as there are minimal additions after harvest yes. But therein lies my point, is that what classifies a natural wine?

 

[JohnM]

In so far as there are minimal additions after harvest yes. But therein lies my point, is that what classifies a natural wine?

Here's a starting point: Natural wine - Wikipedia

Note the very first point made about what it is not to be confused with.

 

[afro]

heres another article

ozwinereview

 

[thrillho]

As far as many are concerned, it's those who use no (or very minimal - in order to import) sO2, only the wild yeasts on the grapes and no additives or finings to clarify the bottles.

I think some people are confusing 'organic' with natural, which is understandable. At the end of the day, all wine is good wine, but this thread was designed for people to share and discuss those which they enjoy, not really nitpick around the definitions

 

[georgehall]

As far as many are concerned, it's those who use no (or very minimal - in order to import) sO2, only the wild yeasts on the grapes and no additives or finings to clarify the bottles.

I think some people are confusing 'organic' with natural, which is understandable. At the end of the day, all wine is good wine, but this thread was designed for people to share and discuss those which they enjoy, not really nitpick around the definitions

Yep sorry I sort of derailed the thread by lumping them all together.

Interesting to see Dan Murphys last night had a couple of the Patrick Sullivan bonkers range. Think Woolworths are chasing the market there.

 

[stereophobic]

Don't get me wrong, a lot of natural / biodynamic wine is garbage, however, some of it happily holds it's own against traditionally manufactured wines. (Like a few of those mentioned above)

I'm with you though, we were supposed to hit peak oil in 1970 remember?
Much of the sustainability & green focus is marketing to occupy those with no real problems in their life.

What's the wine bar? I'm in PER early next year and I'm always on the hunt for a good spot.

May I suggest Wines of While 458 William St as an alternative?

I liked Shadow's food but felt the wine offerings were much safer.

 

[Sabot]

May I suggest Wines of While 458 William St as an alternative?

I liked Shadow's food but felt the wine offerings were much safer.

I will more than happily try both, thanks mate.

 

[stereophobic]

I will more than happily try both, thanks mate.

Additionally, while we're on this track...

Lulu La Delizia (5/97 Rokeby Rd, Subiaco) for some seriously good pasta in PER, they have a mostly natural-leaning wine list, as well as the most extensive list of Radikon I know of (predominantly orange wine from Fruili)

Besk (264 Railway Parade, West Leederville) craft beer and natural wine-centric bar/bottleshop if you don't necessarily want to have a meal with your drinks

I do enjoy visiting Perth and wished it wasn't across the country, but I guess every major city now has their own attractions.

 

[afro]

i'm not sure if orange wine falls into this category, this is not wines that are from the orange region in NSW, the reason this is called orange wine is because of the longer time the white grapes spend on the grape skin during the process.

 

[thrillho]

Heading to Sydney for a work function next week and want to check out some natural wine bars. Is Love, Tilly Devine any good?

 

[georgehall]

Heading to Sydney for a work function next week and want to check out some natural wine bars. Is Love, Tilly Devine any good?

Love,Tilly Devine is nice, I haven't been for some time, it always used to be rammed.

Dear Sainte Eloise is good also, you can have a wine and watch the Kings Cross locals walk past. Poly is also good for food. Further out in Marrickville you have Where's Nick's, Dolphin Hotel has a good list too.

 

[stereophobic]

Heading to Sydney for a work function next week and want to check out some natural wine bars. Is Love, Tilly Devine any good?

Love Tilly Devine / Dear Saint Eloise and their new restaurant in the CBD Ragazzi are solid, if a little expensive in terms of what they charge for the wine.

Poly and Ester are really good restaurants with a cracking wine selection, wine pricing is similar to the group mentioned above but I rate the food much better. YMMW with the service.

Dolphin Hotel's wine room is fun as they used to be able to coravin every single bottle they have as long as the somm is ok with it. Things have changed a little since so its slightly more limited, but it's a good spot as you have Scout (great coughtail bar) upstairs and the regular pub in the same building.

Where's Nick is a gem if you're in Marrickville, as they have zero pretensions and they price their wine extremely generous.

Current favorite is Cafe Paci in Newtown as they have really good pricing on bottles and the food is stellar. Eternal favorite is 10 William Street.

 

[cgichard]

Any suggestions on where to find - preferably in Melbourne - a port (for Communion wine) that has not been fined with milk or egg-whites? Needs to be 'solid' enough to be OK when diluted with water.