Negative Change of T&C - Charge Card

[lovestotravel]

It's actually much higher than $300, as you'll need 2 complete cycles of paying the entire balance + interest to get back the interest free status. So depending on current balance and future spend in the following two months, this could easily be $1000+ in additional charges for a 1 day late payment.

Don't pay the bill late then, pretty simple

 

[samiam]

...P.S. You can get statements by email.

AMEX suggested I go for electronic statements and, because the hard copy wasn't sitting in my 'pile' and I'm a bit laissez-faire about these things, I made 4 late payments (weak but true) over about 9 months.

I called AMEX, asked for the paper based account to be reinstated, and had all 4 late fees waived.

 

[Stephen65]

Re liquidated damages, I thought legally you had to sign that you would accept these, contracts cannot be changed retroactively unless agreed to by card holder, can someone enlighten us?

It's not being changed retroactively because the change is prospective. The usual way these contracts work is that they have a right to vary them in the written terms and you accept that variation by continuing to use the card. If you are unhappy with the variation you always have the option of terminating the contract.

A more interesting question is whether this "liquidated damages" clause is enforceable at all. There's a whole set of legal rules about clauses like this and the extent to which the liquidated damages figure can actually exceed the real loss likely to be suffered by the innocent party by reason of the breach.

In the present case I doubt Amex suffers a real loss on late payment that runs at 36% pa so you might have good grounds for arguing the clause is unenforceable.

 

[Diesellife]

In the present case I doubt Amex suffers a real loss on late payment that runs at 36% pa so you might have good grounds for arguing the clause is unenforceable.

+ 1 for that.

However, even though I believe the clause is likely to be extravagant and unconscionable, and thus likely to be unenforceable. Amex will continue to charge it until a decision is made by a court. Now, unless there is another class action for Amex, I do not think it's wise to challenge Amex in this matter for once or twice late payment panelty. It is just not worth the time and cost!

 

[lovestotravel]

Okay my last months statement had a due date of 21 days..

This months statement is back to 14 days again....

Consistency would be nice, but I'll be paying it between day 21-24 as per normal.

Not interested in ever changing payment due dates.

 

[hippo]

From my snail mail today:
...
Liquidated Damages will be charged on the overdue amounts at three percent (3.0%) or $20, whichever is greater.
...
Ends

2. This is clearly a law avoidance (from 1 July, late payment fee is abolished??) attempt by renaming late payment fee as "liquidated damages" which is the same terms used in CARE or Wilson Car Park.

Like to hear you guys opinion...

I live overseas, so only just received the notice from American Express yesterday.

Being overseas, I also did not know about the 1 July late payment regulation you refer to. If you have any pointers to that, it would be appreciated.

So, upon receiving this notice a couple of things that struck me.

Firstly, the tone of the notice of potential liquidated damages came across to me as being quite hostile. Not really something I was expecting to read after my long association with the company as a card holder (22+ years).

Secondly, I notice the terms on my charge card have reduced to 14 days without any notice that I recall. As I live overseas, I usually get my statement 3 weeks after the billing date, but even when I was in Melbourne, the delay was up to a week. Take the 2-3 day delay for a b-pay, amex terms amount to a week or less (best case, for myself I wont have even seen the statement before activating the "liquidated damages" clause).

Finally, liquidated damages needs to be reasonable to be legally enforceable.
For instance, have a look at this commentary on enforceability of penalties and liquidated damages in contracts,
Penalty or Liquidated Damages – A question of enforceability

The cost of credit being 36% per annum does not seem at all reasonable (cf american express credit cards), and as the penalty is not pro rated from the monthly penalty(I mean damage), then your 1 day late fee is effectively greater than 1000% per annum.

If what you say about changes in Australian law abolishing late fees is correct, this is a pretty sleazy attempt by American Express to deceive their customers in regard to the intent of this regulatory change.

 

[Ricardo]

I sent Amex some online feedback today about the negative change and possible liquidated damages for late payments, so will keep you all posted on what I get back. I also suggested they should reduce the card membership fee if they are going to make the card less attractive by getting harder on payment terms. I guess they just want the money quicker. I should check out the share price on the US stock exchange to see how they are going. I also see that NAB is back to providing top quality service by not processing transactions which has made my Amex payment late and could also impact my upcoming house settlement if the money is not sent in a timely manner. Last time this happened it was a nightmare, my wife's salary got paid twice then they took it all back and we had to almost beg to get her salary back. Goodbye NAB it was nice knowing you but your not for me so its all over ............:mrgreen:

Oh and I am coming up to Sydney on Sunday from GC using Virgin, cause Jetstar pissed us around with our refund from the Chch earthquake but thats another rant, and you guessed it Virgin are doing work on sytems on Sunday so no doubt me and my family will be delayed, I just cant seem to take a trick right now, any sympathy welcome !!!!

 

[yohy?!]

I can confirm no charges incurred on my Charge account this month after remitting the payment at day 28...looks like business as usual

 

[lovestotravel]

I can confirm no charges incurred on my Charge account this month after remitting the payment at day 28...looks like business as usual

I have continued to pay between day 21-24 and never had a problem and will continue to do so.

Never been declined
Never had a late fee
Never had an issue

 

[yohy?!]

I have continued to pay between day 21-24 and never had a problem and will continue to do so.

Never been declined
Never had a late fee
Never had an issue

You shouldn't have a problem with being declined: unless you spend a lot more spend more than usual one month, between days 14-30 at a high risk merchant (example adult services)

 

[Stephen65]

I have continued to pay between day 21-24 and never had a problem and will continue to do so.

Never been declined
Never had a late fee
Never had an issue

Same here. In fact an Amex rep recently complimented me on my "perfect payment record".

 

[Ricardo]

According to the letter I received from Amex the changes RE the (may as in might) liquidated damages charges was not due to start until April 17th which is Sunday (tommorrow).

 

[Ricardo]

Ok so I received some comments back from Amex RE my rant about the damages and possible charges for late payment. The crux of the response was that they had always been able to charge this type of late fee as we know, but now they say they have updated systems so that they can charge the late fees in line with the new earlier payment dates, with an unspecified built in grace period after the payment due date. I am sure other members will monitor this as well as myself.

 

[Diesellife]

Only time will tell, but I am not changing my paying pattern.
I love to pay >24 and <30 and I dare them to charge me the fee.

 

[Ricardo]

Only time will tell, but I am not changing my paying pattern.
I love to pay >24 and <30 and I dare them to charge me the fee.

I agree 110% :mrgreen:

 

[lovestotravel]

Only time will tell, but I am not changing my paying pattern.
I love to pay >24 and <30 and I dare them to charge me the fee.

Yep, I just paid my recent bill in this time-frame and all is good again

You do know what I will do if they charge me a late fee and what I would get out of it :mrgreen:

 

[Diesellife]

Yep, I just paid my recent bill in this time-frame and all is good again

You do know what I will do if they charge me a late fee and what I would get out of it :mrgreen:

Yea i know... Haha poor Amex.

 

[deluxeflyer]

May I be the first to share my experience with the new T&Cs ?

I have been paying about a day or 2 before the next statement is issued, never been a problem. This month (EOM billing cycle) I was charged a hefty late payment fee.
Called Amex to ask why is this now happening?
Was told about the change to T&C's and that the grace period is now 7 days from the due date on the statement, whereas it was around 14 days previously.
Was also told that because of my excellent and long payment history, this fee would be waived this month.
To enable me to pay on the date I want, which is as close to EOM as possible, Amex would change my billing cycle, ie extend it by a days, so as to make the effective due date EOM.
In the past, a change in the billing cycle would have required new account numbers, but because of a recent upgrade to Amex computer systems, new account numbers are not necessary.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[yohy?!]

May I be the first to share my experience with the new T&Cs ?

I have been paying about a day or 2 before the next statement is issued, never been a problem. This month (EOM billing cycle) I was charged a hefty late payment fee.
Called Amex to ask why is this now happening?
Was told about the change to T&C's and that the grace period is now 7 days from the due date on the statement, whereas it was around 14 days previously.
Was also told that because of my excellent and long payment history, this fee would be waived this month.
To enable me to pay on the date I want, which is as close to EOM as possible, Amex would change my billing cycle, ie extend it by a days, so as to make the effective due date EOM.
In the past, a change in the billing cycle would have required new account numbers, but because of a recent upgrade to Amex computer systems, new account numbers are not necessary.

Hope this is helpful.

Yikes! Thanks for the heads up

 

[Diesellife]

I did a >28 days payment today to test the water... will see how it goes :mrgreen:

Result will be posted later and fingers X...