New Amex redemption rates for SQ/EK; adding transfers to QR/HA

[MathNerd]

I think it was April 2019. Ironically, in April 2020, as a response to the pandemic, Amex temporarily doubled the value of membership rewards points for paying off credit card spending (but not for FF programme transfers).

Yes, April 2019.

Myself (and a fair few, dare I say the majority of the people on here) went and spent up big prior to the deval, amassing quite a stash of points.

Then, COVID hit, and the extensions started.
These points, a lot of them earnt in April 2019 and prior, are now going to be expiring at the end of this month.

A lot of points were also burnt prior to 4 July 2022, when SQ had its own deval, however any remaining points are still on the chopping block this month.

Will be funny to see the "journey" that all our SQ points have been on in the last ~4 years with the devals, extensions, award chart changes, reductions in F/R capacity in SQ's fleet, the re-positioning of SQ's A380 to/from MEL, FRA/JFK, etc, the list goes on and on.

One thing is certain, this game certainly keeps all of us on the edge of our seats and toes.

Personally I don't really have any options but to continue using MR and SQ as my main points currency, so will just have to earn points harder (anyone know how to use AmEx for mortgage repayments let me know and I'll forever be in your favour).

Just got back to MEL from a 5 week Europe trip that started in BCN (MEL-SIN-(MXP)-BCN) and ended in IST (IST-SIN-MEL), all funded using SQ points burnt before the July 4 deval, and the SQ flights were definitely some of the highlights of the trip (apart from SIN-MEL on Tuesday where the IFA was a bit curt at times).
Couldn't have flown my wife and I all the way around the globe and back in J on my own dime so the SQ points really did save us a bucketload.

Now to get back to action and accumulate some more points for the next trip.

Thanks all for coming to my TED talk

 

[zig]

Finally today I received an email from Amex about this issue - they certainly took their time, carrier pigeon might have been quicker

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Just as a follow up to the BA Avios multi-carrier award (which is effectively their version of QF's OneWorld award), I did some digging and indeed, the BA scheme seems more lucrative. Whereas the current QF OneWorld award (AFF article here) only lets you travel up to 35,000 miles, the BA one lets you travel up to 50,000 miles with the up to 50,000 band costing 320,000 Avios in business versus the 318,000 QF points in business. Now you tell me if travelling an extra 20,000 miles in J is worth an outlay of 2,000 more points? I'm inclined to think so. Indeed, if we were to compare Apples to Apples, the BA 25,000 - 35,000 mile band closely matches the 19,201 to 35,000 mile band with QF and it's considerably fewer points at 280,000 for business. Again, this could represent a new redemption opportunity few are thinking of.

Before we bag AMEX, I would like to know if it was AMEX who devalued our points or SIA and Emirates and why. Two of the most successful and "profitable" airlines in the World.

Debatable.

Also SIA with the worst miles validity.

Yes the validity scheme is absolutely bonkers, yet people keep saving their miles to the program. I fail to understand why!

For an airline that is so good (except for my last business class flight), thier FF program is restrictive and favours thier "valued" flyers (read PPS etc).

For those who are wondering, Singapore used to provide lifetime status for PPS club members but in one fell swoop removed that perk. I think they are one of the few, perhaps the only airline still operating to this day that did this. They were lawsuits and I know of people who swore they would never fly (or at least credit to) Singapore again.

It is a shame that SIA in particular does not value the "ordinary" people who have supported them since Adam was a boy.

They don't care about loyalty since the PR machine has been working overtime for decades now. People keep saying Changi is the best airport in the world when there is minimal hard evidence to prove such a point. Ditto for Singapore. I think most European airlines would clean the floor with Singapore on customer service alone. How do I know? Because European airlines are obligated by law to treat customers well in the event of irregular operations providing hotels, meals, calls, and cash compensation (see EU261). Singapore is not bound by such rules (aside from flights ex-EU).

This may sound like a rant, which it probably is, but it is from someone who has given up trying to find business class award availability BNE-SIN-BNE, unless you want to be on the end of a "waitlist" that stretches from here to eternity.

Singapore availability is there but you need to be flexible on dates. As I tell people all the time, frequent flyer portals aren't like WebJet where you enter the origin, destination, and date and choose your airline. You gotta do your homework.

To give you some context in april 2020 (if i recall)
Amex halved the redemptiom rate to most/all reward partners including sia

This made In my view, the programme go from. Quite generous to decent.
I assumed that memberships would drop

These current changes in my view makes it go from decent to Barely worth it

But I don't think we will see amex go bankrupt soon

You need to realize that AmEx Platinum represents a tiny fraction of the credit/charge cards they issue. I suspect most casual travellers who would consider AmEx would get a QF or VA card. The people who have the Platinum card are those who are serious about travel. They will use up all the credits on their card (from travel, dining, Accor, etc.). They are the type who will stay at a $80/night Doubletree in Kalamazoo because the Hilton Gold status they've got gives them free breakfast, or stay at the Sydney Grand Sheraton because they know they'll have a 2 PM late check out. They are the types who regularly book Premium Cabin cash fares (i.e. Premium Economy, Business or First) and enjoy the 5%-10% discount on airfare provided by the International Airline Program. They are the type who fly regularly and want to know they'll always have a lounge to visit. As someone who fits some of these demographics (and who holds a Canadian Platinum card), the feeling in Sydney after an overnight flight and using that Plaza Premium arrivals lounge to shower and grab a bite to eat before heading to work in North Sydney is great.

Yes, April 2019.

Myself (and a fair few, dare I say the majority of the people on here) went and spent up big prior to the deval, amassing quite a stash of points.

Then, COVID hit, and the extensions started.
These points, a lot of them earnt in April 2019 and prior, are now going to be expiring at the end of this month.

A lot of points were also burnt prior to 4 July 2022, when SQ had its own deval, however any remaining points are still on the chopping block this month.

Will be funny to see the "journey" that all our SQ points have been on in the last ~4 years with the devals, extensions, award chart changes, reductions in F/R capacity in SQ's fleet, the re-positioning of SQ's A380 to/from MEL, FRA/JFK, etc, the list goes on and on.

One thing is certain, this game certainly keeps all of us on the edge of our seats and toes.

Personally I don't really have any options but to continue using MR and SQ as my main points currency, so will just have to earn points harder (anyone know how to use AmEx for mortgage repayments let me know and I'll forever be in your favour).

Just got back to MEL from a 5 week Europe trip that started in BCN (MEL-SIN-(MXP)-BCN) and ended in IST (IST-SIN-MEL), all funded using SQ points burnt before the July 4 deval, and the SQ flights were definitely some of the highlights of the trip (apart from SIN-MEL on Tuesday where the IFA was a bit curt at times).
Couldn't have flown my wife and I all the way around the globe and back in J on my own dime so the SQ points really did save us a bucketload.

Now to get back to action and accumulate some more points for the next trip.

Thanks all for coming to my TED talk

I think the key lesson from all of this is to look at the various frequent flyer programs first before transferring. There are some instances where Virgin will be the option because they have partner availability Qantas or Singapore don't. Similarly, there will be instances where BA Avios provides better value than burning your QF points, or instances where using QF points makes more sense (i.e. to dodge the BA carrier surcharge). There are many free tools out there to help you locate this availability (and the relevant transfer partner) like Point.me

-RooFlyer88

 

[albyd]

To give you some context in april 2020 (if i recall)
Amex halved the redemptiom rate to most/all reward partners including sia

They did that but gave us double the points. I think that was aimed more at overcoming the perception among the public (excluding those of us on AFF) that the banks were more generous than Amex (ie ‘earn’ 3ppd with a bank credit card vs 1 ppd with Amex. Now it’s earn 2 Amex ppd.

SUB went from 100,000 MR to 200,000 MR but effectively was still 100K MR. As we know, it’s all in the conversion rate.

 

[SOPOOR]

They did that but have us double the points. I think that was aimed more at overcoming the perception among the public (excluding those of us on AFF) that the banks were more generous than Amex (ie ‘earn’ 3ppd with a bank credit card vs 1 ppd with Amex. Now it’s earn 2 Amex ppd.

SUB went from 100,000 MR to 200,000 MR but effectively was still 100K MR. As we know, it’s all in the conversion rate.

Actually good memory, I had forgotten about the doubling
That was a good ethical move. I remember being disappointed but not upset with rhem

 

[TiredOldFlyer]

Sorry Amex - it's all over after 25 years.
Can't be bothered with all the hassle.
From now on it's the SKI club for me.
(Spend Kids Inheritance )

 

[am0985]

Qatar J availability to Europe does appear to fairly abruptly disappear from mid June 2024 (Y available still)...this side of things appears to definitely be a downgrade.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Qatar J availability to Europe does appear to fairly abruptly disappear from mid June 2024 (Y available still)...this side of things appears to definitely be a downgrade.

Could it possibly be that QR hasn't released award seats yet given how far away that date is? I should also point out that for flying to Europe from Australia you need to break this down into two steps. First search your home airport to the hub (i.e. SIN for British Airways, Singapore and Qantas, DXB for BA, DOH for QR, AUH for EY, etc.) and see what dates there is availability (almost always there will be some availability). Then from their search from the hub to various European hubs like ZRH, AMS, FCO, LHR, CDG, FRA, etc. And yes I'm using BA to refer to Emirates (otherwise known as Bling Air or BA).

To use your example of QR to Europe. Let's just have a look at late June as you suggest there's no availability. Well look what I find to DOH:


No problem finding an award ticket from DOH to GVA either in that date range either:

I've said it before and I will say it again, if you know how to look you will be way ahead out of this arrangement than before. The problem with Singapore (and by extension Star Alliance) is they don't fly here. There's only one airline that's Star Alliance that flies from Australia to Asia and that's Singapore. Or at least that's what most Aussies think. Fact of the matter is there are other airlines like ANA or Asiana, EVA Air and Thai that will take you places if you know where to look. And guess what? Asiana and ANA release award availability more than tight wad Singapore.

None of this is easy and none of this is obvious. This is why communities like AFF and FlyerTalk exist. If it were easy, people would be booking award flights left or right. And for everyone who says the Yanks have it easy. Do they really? You can earn miles on Delta or United with their dynamic award system and end up spending half a million miles or more to go anywhere remotely interesting in business (oh and AA is heading that way too, just read the news articles there). And don't think the frequent flyer programs are any better either with it being based on $$$ spent for all programs, and guess what? No lounge access if travelling domestically. Terrific!

Like I always say, the grass ain't always greener on the other side - it's just different tinge of yellow.

-RooFlyer88

 

[kamchatsky]

Yes the validity scheme is absolutely bonkers, yet people keep saving their miles to the program. I fail to understand why

I save SQ KF points because they consistently provide 4 * J Saver awards, or with backup of Advantage awards if Savers are not available. QR and others only provide 2 * J Savers per flight. So for someone like me who need to book for my family SQ is to go. I really want to try QR but can only do it when the kids are grown up.

 

[sydunipete]

One big casualty is trips to Asia though. One stop to Japan was always possible on SQ, might be harder with Avios?

True, but there are other options for MR to fly in business class to Japan. Some work I did a few months could get tickets SYD-HND for 140,000MR with CX (on MH metal) or MH Enrich 180,000 MR while SQ was over 201,000 MR (which will obviously be much worse with the devaluation.

I like flying SQ but I may have to cast the redemption net a little wider in future.

 

[777 300]

Thank you for the update, I must have missed that along the way. So maybe I was wrong and it may be AMEX who has changed the redemption again. It is beyond me why they would do this........

 

[albyd]

Thank you for the update, I must have missed that along the way. So maybe I was wrong and it may be AMEX who has changed the redemption again. It is beyond me why they would do this........

All other cards have a 3:1 conversion ratio. Amex are trying it on before rolling it out to other airlines - they do it because they can. They're pricing to market.

Sucks but that's competition (or lack thereof).

 

[Jaian]

If I transfer them all to SIA I will have until July And October 2026 to redeem them. I can also extend them by 6 months or 12 months if my current Elite Silver is still in place, so I have up to 4 years to use them.

Just seeing if I understand, as an Elite Silver (easy to obtain), if I extend points expiry for 12 months, is this free, or is there a cost/penalty? If so what is that cost?

 

[MathNerd]

Slightly OT, but still related as it's an Asia based FF devaluing:
CX Devalues AM from Oct 2023
So maybe CX saw AmEx AU doing this and joined the bandwagon, or have their own rising costs leading to this... It's anyone's guess.

 

[spud60]

I think it is $12 USD per 10000 miles and elite silver is just another 6 months extension for SIA

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Slightly OT, but still related as it's an Asia based FF devaluing:
CX Devalues AM from Oct 2023
So maybe CX saw AmEx AU doing this and joined the bandwagon, or have their own rising costs leading to this... It's anyone's guess.

Every airline is increasing the costs as demand rises but supply remains (relatively) low. We'll see if these airlines change their tune going into a recession where travellers (once again) cut back their travel and supply exceeds demand.

 

[burmans]

Every airline is increasing the costs as demand rises but supply remains (relatively) low. We'll see if these airlines change their tune going into a recession where travellers (once again) cut back their travel and supply exceeds demand.

Agreed, I think the supply/demand inbalance is already turning around surprisingly quickly as capacity is brought back online at the same time as we have people struggling (and travel is definitely not a necessity for many).

 

[Ecco]

Does anyone know how to change the currency on an avios BA account? I have my relation’s US address. Apparently for UK based BA accounts the fees etc are cheaper as they are in Gbp not usd. Is there a way to do this when you’ve already opened an account?

 

[Jacques Vert]

Does anyone know how to change the currency on an avios BA account? I have my relation’s US address. Apparently for UK based BA accounts the fees etc are cheaper as they are in Gbp not usd. Is there a way to do this when you’ve already opened an account?

Change your address to somewhere in the UK.

 

[djtech]

Shame, because SQ was the only 'good' path for Star Alliance access with the AMEX program. Avios and HA is good additions for sure, but doesn't open a whole lot more than what we got with Qantas and other OneWorld programs already. Diversity is the name of the game and I would say losing value on SQ's redemptions is not made up with more ways to access the same OneWorld availability.