New business class for VA 737 [deferred]

[HeavyElectricity]

Just read the article over on Australian Business Traveller:
Virgin Australia hints at new Boeing 737 domestic business class

It will be interesting to see what happens here. Being based in Perth, I'm going to be very sad when the A330s start getting re-purposed for international flights (PER-AUH, and ?-HKG). I've been loving "The Business" on the transcontinental flights.

The 'big' question is, will it be a new 2-2 x2 layout for the 737s, or maybe "The Business" seats (something like 1-1 x3 layout)?

 

[NZflygirl]

If they did something like QR's A320 lie flats I would book a 737 transcon without hesitating.

Review: Qatar Airways A320 First Class Dubai To Doha - One Mile at a Time

2nd 3rd pics down.

They're actually sold as J class on other routes.

 

[Pleb Status]

Alot of speculation here as JB did not confirm (or deny) anything.

Asked if this meant Virgin Australia was considering a new business class for some transcontinental Boeing 737s, Borghetti demurred, replying with a smile that “Well I didn’t say that, you said that…”

But as AFF is built on speculation...... I will continue.

I have been loving 'The Business' since its inception and will be very disappointed if my regular VA A330 BNE-PER flight gets dropped to a 73H. My regular VA PER-BNE flight is already a 73H (and the opposition have already 'enhanced' their flights to a 73H both ways). With more international flights planned, the A330 could leave VA domestic completely in the medium term.

In the long term, what VA needs is a sub fleet of A321neo for transcon services to give them the space needed to install a decent J seat whilst still carrying the same number in Y. However, as VA have ordered the 737Max, this is not going to happen (737-10 prehaps).

In the short term, retrofitting a sub fleet of 737 with a better J seat would make VA more competitive on transcon services. I cannot see them installing the BE Super Diamond in the 737 as they appear very inefficient space wise when used in a small number. A 2-2 arrangement is almost certain (if any upgrade is going to occur).

A seat like DL use in Delta One on the 752 transcon or AA use in J on the 321T would be the most likely candidates. A big step down from what we have now on the 330 but a big step up from what is currently offered on 737. The number of rows would most likely stay at two to keep 8J (but could drop to only one). This would reduce Y capacity by six (?).

In reality, I think VA will just wait and see what happens before committing to anything. The opposition have also been reducing 330 transcon services so the impact on VA pax numbers may not be as severe as if they were cutting the 330 alone.

 

[Standby]

The only reason they would reconfigure 737's in J is if they no longer have critical/No mass of A330's on EW.If China expansion is a goal for them with their own metal that looks on the cards.The real issue is the amount spent on A330 product to only remove it to questionable LH markets which are well served from a frequency and product perspective.Lack of Brand awareness ,lack of local sales penetration will make success there no guarantee. Y cabin fares to HKG have dropped significantly over tha past few years,China has sub $500 returns,This is no money pit at the moment.To think CX & QF will give up premium customers is shortsighted.Anyone remember Ansett 747's to SE Asia?This seems very similar .Back to 737's. Further removal of A330s on Perth will give a large chunk of. ecy pax straight to QF because of product,especially corporates who have choice.

They would be better served by going down the Space Plus model path and offering current J at a PY level.ecy is where most of the revenue is generated anyway.Lounge access could be offered to PY.

This just looks like they have lost the plot on what they need to be to actually be profitable.They really don't have the money to keep wasting on failed strategies.People can argue how wonderful the changes have been but profit and share price tell a very different tale.

 

[samh004]

Interesting speculation. As Pleb Status says though, a sub fleet of A321neo or B737-10 with upgraded J would make a lot of sense for both trans-con and trans-tasman. However I'm thinking about less VA here and more QF

Narrow-body isn't the same as wide-body but then the eventual outcome would be that you could push all the A330's to medium-haul international and operate a purely narrow-body trans-con and trans-tasman fleet... so long as the amount and quality of J in the sub fleet is up to the level and standard of the wide-body fleet.

 

[Pleb Status]

Interesting speculation. As Pleb Status says though, a sub fleet of A321neo or B737-10 with upgraded J would make a lot of sense for both trans-con and trans-tasman. However I'm thinking about less VA here and more QF

I also had this thought, as the only reason QF 330 pax have new J seats is because VA put them in...

 

[Pleb Status]

A seat like DL use in Delta One on the 752 transcon or AA use in J on the 321T would be the most likely candidates. A big step down from what we have now on the 330 but a big step up from what is currently offered on 737. The number of rows would most likely stay at two to keep 8J (but could drop to only one). This would reduce Y capacity by six (?).

Looks like both AA and DL use the BE Diamond in their narrowbodies, the step below the current VA BE Super Diamond in the 330.

B/E Aerospace | Diamond Full-Flat Airline Seating - B/E Aerospace
https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2016/...-new-staggered-regional-business-class-seats/

Research done. Seat selected. 8J. Existing supplier. Just got to get JB to sign the purchase order and away we go....

 

[samh004]

I also had this thought, as the only reason QF 330 pax have new J seats is because VA put them in...

I wonder, could an A321 land in ZQN though? Might be just slightly too big for the airport? Thinking of the broader implications here

Edit: I see the RNZAF landed a 757 at ZQN in 2014. Thus if VA and/or QF took on a redesign of J that was on par with the current product, they might be able to use it on all trans-con and not exclude ZQN.

 

[juliusg]

Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

With the yawing difference between A330 and B737 business class, and the need to better calibrate trans continential loads, the plainly obvious fix is to do what ALL the US airlines have done, and that is put lay flat seats into their narrow body trans-con aircraft.

I'm a VA Plat and I will <not> accept the 737 J class on trans-con. I also avoid VA over the Tasman as the J product is weak. What a difference a lay flat seat would make!

This would retain all that really hard earned loyalty while allowing the A330's to go to Asia. It would fix a looming problem, and give VA a competitive edge over QF again. Yes it would cost some rows of economy, but those can be the ultra cheap seats. To make this work even better from a cashflow point of view, this could be introduced on the 737MAX which presumably are leased.

This config would attract me to all VA destinations - whereas right now I would not fly to VA to Bali.

Really, the current 737 J seat is abysmal.

 

[yohy?!]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

Presumably the market isn't there to justify it or they would be doing it already, doesn't help that QF aren't doing anything either. With the WA economy in the toilet can't see things changing anytime soon.

 

[Coxyb76]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

They should really just price it and call it what it really is - Premium Economy.

 

[Bagpuss]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

I used to steer clear of the B737 class and have used it a number of times on trans-con (mainly due to Saturday flying).

From my opinion there is nothing wrong with it, the seat is wide and comfy .. I find reclining the seat makes it the most comfy.

The issue is that the A330 business class is OTT for business usage.

 

[shuuy]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

I'm on the worst 737 transcon right now in J (you can guess the route).

I was pleased that they had power ports - the last time I did this 6h monster there wasn't any.

At least J has no one in it so the service is responsive .

PS as a VA plat... if you didn't offer me 20k points each way there's no way I'd do it

 

[docjames]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

I think there's an opportunity as new 738MAXs arrive to have an improved J product (hello footrest). Recliner is fine for 4-6hr flight (lie flat not needed). Similar to the old QF "dreamtime" seating (prob not as wide though due to cabin width).

 

[Tallfont]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

I, like a lot of people, honestly believe that VA have to do something about 737 Business class across the country.

Maybe reducing the price will work for some. It wouldn't make much difference here as I charge back the flights and if I have a choice between catching the "red eye" out of Perth on a QF A330 or a VA B737 the bigger aircraft will always win.

Maybe installing lay-flat seating would probably tempt me back to try it out. But if the front section became a lavatory waiting room for the whole aircraft like a few VA J flights have been lately it wouldn't last long.

It is all very good charging a premium price for a premium product but the B737 trans-con at the moment is nowhere near a premium product. At around $4800 PER>BNE>POM return on VA and with QF about $20 more expensive for a far better product why would you bother with VA?

 

[im.daniel]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

Even installing something like VX's current F class recliner would be a fantastic change to the current offering!

 

[deva22]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

I feel a proper lay-flat product is essential for the red-eye PER>BNE/MEL/SYD.
Even if they configured just enough 738's to service this route, that'd go a long way!
There are plenty of examples on other airlines that have achieved this, they don't need to reinvent the wheel.

 

[AviationNZ]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

Looks like you'll get your wish!

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-australia-to-launch-all-new-domestic-business-class

Whilst there isn't a mention of whether it'll be a flat bed (and I personally doubt it will), they're going to have dedicated 737's for East coast-West coast flying

 

[deva22]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

Looks like you'll get your wish!

https://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-australia-to-launch-all-new-domestic-business-class

Whilst there isn't a mention of whether it'll be a flat bed (and I personally doubt it will), they're going to have dedicated 737's for East coast-West coast flying

Fantastic. Just hoping they don't do a QF premium economy overhype and deliver bog standard.

 

[Blackswan]

Re: Easy fix for VA - new 737 J class!

In today's West Australian;

https://thewest.com.au/business/avi...new-business-class-will-be-mint-ng-b88528677z

It seems like Geoffrey Thomas has decided it will be MINT (same product as JetBlue). Part of me hopes it's the F product on AA A320T's (transcon) - because every seat would have direct isle access, and also because Geoffrey would be proven wrong.