New Qantas features to change the way you fly

[Vic]

Doesnt stop people doing it though. I mean you have to start queuing at some point otherwise you wont get in...

I really haven't flown enough to form an opinion about what happens in practice. I've also been burning my travel credits on business.

 

[Vic]

Neither I think. Mandate is a noun, the others are adjectives.

Sorry, couldn’t resist.


Hopefully use of the toilet will still be self service. Dude.

Yeah, I don't really find the Karens and their anti-vax nonsense to be that funny. It is ironically funny to see their rants on the internet about a Health Directives and Mandated actions not being mandatory or a legal requirement. ironic that someone who can't understand basic english feels empowered to give advice...

I'm only familiar with PER lounge this year, August, it was self service. From memory the VA lounge in SYD last December was plated by staff, except for some pre-packaged items, which were self-service (I could be wrong, but I do remember some prepackaged fruit cake, which I'm pretty sure we took ourselves).

A like for like comparison with lounges would be not fresh food buffets, but with pre-packaged items.

ah PERTH in the independent republic of WA. Yeah, that's representative of the rest of the world. Not.

Sorry do not agree.

<cut>

I am not a covid expert

Hmm Ok then, whether you agree or not is a mute point by your own admission.

@jpp42 has at least read a scientific paper on this stuff.

Of course, a room on the ground is not the same as an aeroplane.

 

[jpp42]

Sorry do not agree.

No passenger is going to stay in one place or "keep within their same seating area" on international long haul flights from/to AUS. QF1/2 are full for the next several weeks so that is a lot of PAX flying 17hrs+ each way, all walking around stretching their legs, all queuing for a toilet, etc

I agree that it's a bit of a tall order, but I think you will find flight attendants will be instructed to tell people not to queue for a toilet, etc, and to remain in their seat as much as possible. Whether that's practical in reality or not, we will see. But other airlines overseas have been trying to do this for a while yet.

I am not a covid expert and I assume neither are you so comments like "a covid-positive person only spreads it to people near them" is hilarious - absolutely no fact whatsoever backing that up. Multiple cases have resulted from people getting infected from merely being at the opposite end of a large room with no contact with an infected person, or eating in a large restaurant in seperate dining rooms and getting infected.

I was specifically talking about aircraft. I am not an expert myself but have been informed by experts on this subject, who have pointed out that transmission in aircraft is way less than in other large crowd settings - actually airports are the big concern because of the frequent mixing of many people (meaning a super-spreader can be in contact with way more people), and poor ventilation. Aircraft have ventilation systems way superior to any restaurant or general building, with HEPA filters that catch the virus. Hence the risk is primarily from people near you, it won't transmit through the ventilation systems or air currents like those other situations. As with everything, there's always an exception and nothing is perfect, but the game here is reducing the risk where possible.

And I certainly do have facts backing this up - here is a good overview article with links to peer-reviewed studies: Cabin Air & Low Risk of On Board Transmission

 

[RooFlyer]

Yeah, I don't really find the Karens and their anti-vax nonsense to be that funny. It is ironically funny to see their rants on the internet about a Health Directives and Mandated actions not being mandatory or a legal requirement. ironic that someone who can't understand basic english feels empowered to give advice...

I’m battling to follow any of that. We were talking about self service in planes and lounges, and now it’s Karen and anti vaxxers ? .

And the only problem I’ve seen in the recent thread Re grammar is your good self who seems to confuse nouns and adjectives? Oh well.

Back to self service.

Covid has meant no self service for a very long time.

I think we’ve now seen lots of examples of self service on board and in lounges.

Oh yeah, which airports?

HBA at least as noted above.

 

[Vic]

I’m battling to follow any of that. We were talking about self service in planes and lounges, and now it’s Karen and anti vaxxers ? .

And the only problem I’ve seen in the recent thread Re grammar is your good self who seems to confuse nouns and adjectives? Oh well.

Back to self service.



I think we’ve now seen lots of examples of self service on board and in lounges.


HBA at least as noted above.

We're talking about international travel, not some parochial backwater on the fringe of Australia

Interestingly, you're hitting all the important stuff. Is "Mandated" a noun? Or is it a verb? Do nouns not have definitions? There are certain common statements made by the anti-covid lock down mob, if you missed those words being repeated here...

HBA? that's so representative of the rest of the world, just like PER. Guess what I didn't have to wear a mask in Cairns either, or Hobart for that matter. Lets just ignore that thousands of people are dying and base international travel rules on PER and HBA. I'm sure the rest of the world will agree that HBA and PER are the appropriate models to follow.

of course there is always the dictionary... it begs to differ. I'll pass on your grammar lesson...

Mandate definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

Mandate definition: If a government or other elected body has a mandate to carry out a particular policy or... | Meaning, pronunciation, translations and examples

www.collinsdictionary.com

5. VERB
To mandate something means to make it mandatory.

The proposed initiative would mandate a reduction of carbon dioxide of 40%.
Quebec mandated that all immigrants send their children to French schools.
...constitutionally mandated civil rights.

 

[RooFlyer]

We're talking about international travel, not some parochial backwater on the fringe of Australia

Well, Someone at least was talking domestic in this thread .

My few domestic flights have had very clear announcements against congregating for the toilet.

And you now ask

Is “Mandated" a noun? Do nouns not have definitions?

It may be a noun in past tense, but it wasn’t any of the words you used (see below) and to which I smilingly replied.

what about the word Mandate - does that mean mandatory or optional?

And:

HBA? that's so representative of the rest of the world, just like PER. Guess what I didn't have to wear a mask in Cairns either, or Hobart for that matter. Lets just ignore that thousands of people are dying and base international travel rules on PER and HBA. I'm sure the rest of the world will agree that HBA and PER are the appropriate models to follow.

Wow. You simply asked for examples of airports which had lounge self service and I gave you one, Someone else gave up another. If you want to extrapolate that global practice, go for your life, seems weird to me. But I suggest you drop the ‘no self service during Covid’ argument as it’s simply not true.

 

[dajop]

ah PERTH in the independent republic of WA. Yeah, that's representative of the rest of the world. Not.

I also mentioned VA lounge in Sydney in December (Northern Beaches outbreak just starting), where packaged food I'm pretty sure was self service - but "fresh" food was not. But packaged food is more relevant to the QF self service bar.

I think looking at the heat in the argument we'll all have to take a chill pill and agree to disagree. QF supporters and opponents are a bit like ALP and LP supporters - there is little ground in between that will make either change their mind.

But, after 20 years of hearing announcements and from QF, I don't think it's unreasonable to question their announcements, and whether or not there are other reasons. After all, QF have certainly re-defined the words "enhancement" and "simpler" over that time

 

[Daver6]

Oh yeah, which airports?

check in, bag drop and collection doesn't really involve food... food has been self service for a long time. sorry if I take your replies in thread to be super anti-vax.

Clearly dude is a trigger word...

PER and DRW

ah PERTH in the independent republic of WA. Yeah, that's representative of the rest of the world. Not.

Well make your mind up. Is it a mandate or not? Or a mandate where you pick and choose? That doesn't really seem to be much of a mandate then, does it? Kinda put a bit of a hole in your argument that the reason for no self serve is some mandate about no self service. Speaking of which, you still haven't back up your claim of this mandate with any evidence. Is this a state, federal of QF mandate? Please enlighten us. Perhaps then you can do tell the dudes at the PER and DRW which mandate they're failing to implment.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

And I certainly do have facts backing this up - here is a good overview article with links to peer-reviewed studies: Cabin Air & Low Risk of On Board Transmission

I was referring to your claim that only people within the same seating area of an infected person would catch covid - a few news articles does not make this fact.

The IATA article you've linked to on HEPA filter performance supports the notion the snack bar should remain open on QF long haul flights. IATA have declared low risk of Covid transmission while on board due to the performance of HEPA circulating air throughout the cabin.

You cannot claim it is safe to breathe the air on board due to amazing performance of cabin HEPA yet unsafe to have a snack bar. I understand where you are coming from however QF rub me the wrong way blaming all they can on Covid as reason to cut a service. If I see snacks available in J on my next flight then we will know it is another QF furphy.

 

[RichardMEL]

I will chime in on the experiences of one traveller at PER, DRW and one SYD lounge as anecdotal evidence regarding self service/buffets.

We as a country have been in a situation of shifting goal posts, changing rules and open and closing state borders for 18+ months.

As such nobody can really generalise about experiences of all based on a few data points, some of which would have been time dependent - eg SYD VA lounge last December, likely before further restrictions came in,. PER and DRW which, due to border rules and the like have never have (iirc) such rules either from the company, or the state/territory government health rules - again shifting sands.

Many in Victoria, ACT and NSW can easily cite many, many months of CLOSED lounges due to gov regulations, and even when open having seated service, no buffets etc.

My point being that both scenarios are equally valid. If I just flew within WA for example all would seem pretty normal. If I had tried to fly MEL-SYD, and assuming I actually could (borders, lockdowns allowing) the service delivery has been very different.

so all dudes should probably sit back and see the POV of the other and recognise that there has not been uniform experiences around the network, or even within the same city/state depending on the tim in question.

Hopefully these times are starting to come to an en and hopefully we all can raise a beer, or self serve party pie, to that sooner rather than later

 

[Melburnian1]

I agree that it's a bit of a tall order, but I think you will find flight attendants will be instructed to tell people not to queue for a toilet, etc, and to remain in their seat as much as possible. Whether that's practical in reality or not, we will see. But other airlines overseas have been trying to do this for a while yet.



I was specifically talking about aircraft. I am not an expert myself but have been informed by experts on this subject, who have pointed out that transmission in aircraft is way less than in other large crowd settings - actually airports are the big concern because of the frequent mixing of many people (meaning a super-spreader can be in contact with way more people), and poor ventilation. Aircraft have ventilation systems way superior to any restaurant or general building, with HEPA filters that catch the virus. Hence the risk is primarily from people near you, it won't transmit through the ventilation systems or air currents like those other situations. As with everything, there's always an exception and nothing is perfect, but the game here is reducing the risk where possible.

And I certainly do have facts backing this up - here is a good overview article with links to peer-reviewed studies: Cabin Air & Low Risk of On Board Transmission

Don't you need to read up on the expert from Purdue University in the USA, Dr Qingyan Chen?

By using airplane cabin as an example, clean
air could be supplied at a lower temperature than the cabin air from individual air supply
units underneath of the seats in front row as shown Fig. 2(a) (You et al., 2018). The
buoyancy force from a passenger’s body would generate a thermal plume that can bring
the clean air from the lower part of the cabin to the breathing zone of the passenger. The
contaminated air breathed out by the passenger would move to the upper part of the cabin
due to the thermal plume and be extracted at the ceiling level. Figure 2(b) illustrates that
the personalized ventilation system does not mix air in the cabin. Every passenger inhales
in clean air and the contaminated air exhaled out by the passenger is removed though
outlets without mixing. This system can greatly reduce infection risk. Unfortunately, such
a system has not been used by any commercial airplane manufacturers but it could be
used in the near future to mitigate SARS-CoV-2 risk

 

[Berlin]

Gosh- where did this thread slip to, I thought this was about salads and veggie options?

 

[justinbrett]

I personally wouldn't consider pre-packaged food "self service" though I guess it technically qualifies.

I think this thread clearly shows how divided Australia is and how our covid experiences have differed dramatically. Those in NT/WA/TAS may have had buffets at their QPs but have never really dealt with covid in the community on any significant scale. It's ignorant to think your experience is the same to those in NSW/VIC/ACT - and to a much lesser extent SA/QLD (who whilst haven't had any mass outbreaks have maintained restrictions for extended periods). Dealing with covid going forward is going to look a lot more like NSW/VIC than TAS/WA as Covid zero in any ongoing basis is a fallacy.

It may be a noun in past tense, but it wasn’t any of the words you used (see below) and to which I smilingly replied

Nouns don't have tenses.

 

[RooFlyer]

Gosh- where did this thread slip to, I thought this was about salads and veggie options?

Yes, but also whether the dudes can pick their own salads and veggie options .

Nouns don't have tenses.

Oops yes - that was dumb, sorry . I’m sure I’ll hear more about it